A little history

[Brad S]

Suvir,

How do you feel Achaya has been able to codify and map out the evolution of Indian cuisine?

I thank you very much for any feedback

[Suvir Saran]

Achaya is the most well know authority to have tried unraveling the mysteries that encompass Indian cooking at every level.

Indian food is very vast. It has nuances that are discovered daily by Indians living in Indian itself. Every region, language and social group has their own very unique understanding of what it means to be Indian. And that also changes how they react to the foods of the region.

Achayas books are very scholarly, but also very dry. I am not sure how successful they are in achieving much for those that practice Indian cooking. In fact many Indian chefs find them more acceptable to read for theory of an era far removed than for any knowledge they can gain from them in their daily pratice. In fact many of the best Indian chefs have never even read his works.

I wonder if he knew who his readership was? Or even if he cared. For those of us many seas away that try and understand something as different as the world of Indian cooking, Achaya is a treat we could not have found easily. Having his writing is a great gift to be cherished. But I wonder if he ever realized who his work was going to affect most?

The chefs that practice Indian cooking at the most immediate level in India and overseas, certainly do not have the experience of having read his great work. Also I am not sure how much his work would have affected their craft. But I do think it would be great to somehow bring his work to the realm of young chefs around the globe that are learning the finer nuances of world cuisine. It would be a shame if chefs studying formally around the world would not be exposed to Achayas world.

I know Steve Klc has read Achayas work. Maybe Steve can shed light on how he reacted to his writing.

How did his work affect you A caped Chef? What did you think of his writing?

[Brad S]

Thank you for your detailed post,

I guess learning about the harappan (sp) people was something very interesting.The fact that in rajasthan achaya found the first ploughed field found anywhere in the world.and his writings of sandscript by the aryans.

The whole idea of using archaelogy and etymoly in unearthing history is fasinating to me. I can tell by my spelling that it's time for me to go to bed.

[Suvir Saran]

You are right about all of this caped chef.

But those that grew up in India take so much for granted.

We were educated about all of this. And took it for granted.

A few years back there was a small but interesting exhibition at Asia Society. It was about Harrappa. One realized how little Americans knew about India. And it was sad to see that so many of those that came to the exhibit did not know most stuff that happened in that civilisation.

In the US we have found ourselves limited to Egypt when we study ancient civilization. For others around the world, it has been a very tedious task to unravel the Harrapan people for even though they have a clear and precise language, we are yet to decipher it. Maybe it suits the world to not understand what was spoken and communicated by these people. But it is all there. Whatever has been preserved that is. And amazing stuff has been found. Lots of culinary history. And so much as old as time.

But for students that never grew up learning of India and its ancient civilzation, certainly his writing has even greater relevance.

That was exactly my point.. I wondered how much he has moved the Indian reader. I know that not many chefs per se have ever bothered reading him. I wish they would. For I know they would be richer for it. His writing is poignant and relevant and educational.

Lets see what Steve Klc has to say. I am sure he would articulate beautifully his thougts on Achaya and his writing.

[Toby]

Would you please give name of book(s) and full name of author, please? Thanks.

[Steve Klc]

Besides the Achaya book already discussed in another thread, Toby, the paperback "Indian Food: A Historical Companion" there is a hardback from 1998 "A Historical Dictionary of Indian Food" and I like and appreciate both--but with the very same qualifications Suvir raises. There isn't the warmth--for lack of a better word--which a better writer would bring to the page despite its factual form. Achaya is no Elizabeth David, but then who is? He's an "authority" on food rather than a cook or an authority on cooking--and he writes with the detachment of a scientist or researcher and without feeling.

These are dense, scholarly, dry, factual and dispassionate works--but as Suvir says these are still invaluable for those of us not raised and exposed to the richness and depth of Indian culture. I found I used the Dictionary more often--turning to it for origins of ingredients, products and interconnections between India and other countries and cuisines. Since I try to take an interdisciplinary approach to things--these sources help--and the books are very good with this.

If you need an essay on the food of Kerala, it's here. A few pages on the food of the Mughal period? It's here.

Where the books fall down somewhat, culturally speaking, is in translating meaning and significance and making a direct impact in how one cooks or lives or sees.

But by collecting this vast chasm of material, Achaya has created an opening for authorities like Madhur Jaffrey and Suvir to step into and make a more direct impact by sharing their writings, thoughts and philosophies here on eGullet and in their own books.

[Simon Majumdar]

Achaya is a starting point for those with no knowledge of Indian food. it makes a good base, like learning to drive or doing x101.

What Steve and Suvir intimate is correct. The books have no soul. They have no spirit.

In fact that is one of the areas that disappoints me most about so much of the publishing on Indian Food. For a cuisine that is so intertwined with the spirit, so much writing on it is clinical ,empty and worthless

The recipes we ( mostly Suvir ) share here on this board have contributed more to my understanding of indian food in all its glory and diversity than a million Madhur's. I think that is because it is not shared for want of profit but for the need to have everyone experience the magic of things that those of us who were fortunate enough to grow up with this cuisine take for granted.

So sure, spend $25 on Achaya if you want a good reference book, but keep posting on here if you want to understand.

S

[Brad S]

Dear Siman,Suvir and Steve.

Thank you all so very much for your wonderful description and obvious passion you bring to this topic.

This is truly a fasinating discussion.

A question, What two books would you then recommend ,one for Indian culture and food history and the other for cooking.

many thanks,and thank you for sharing

Brad

[Simon Majumdar]

I always say if you want to understand ( as much as one can ) the cultural diversity that is the wonder of Mother India, read three things

The Gita

The collected Poems of Rabindranath Tagore

No Full Stops in India by Mark Tully

Avoid everything written by Naipaul. His book " a Million Mutinies Now" is a disgrace both from a literary and an understanding point of view

In terms of food. I would wait until Suvir's book comes out if I were you

[Suvir Saran]

Flattery will get you a meal in my NYC home Simon..and also a signed copy of the book as a gift.. but you still did not answer A caped chefs question.

What would be the 2 books you would buy?

Apart from the other 3 great books you mention. Which I concur are excellent reading. And yes I really think Naipaul is crazy, but as I feel about all people, has a right to say that which he believes. What worries me is that a body like the Nobel Academy could not understand a man like him before t hey awarded him that honor. But we can discuss that on another board.. where the intricacies of such a character can be debated in the right setting.

Going back to food... what 2 books would you suggest Simon...

Steve Klc, do you have 2 you would recommend?

Sandra, Anil, Vivin, Toby, Jaymes, Rich, Polly, Hasmi, Yvonne, KJohn??? What are your choices?

[Toby]

Thanks, everyone, for this interesting conversation. I think the reason I never got very deeply into Indian food is because of that lack of soul and sensuality in all the cookbooks I've read about it. I don't like to travel (because I can't take my things with me, isn't that pathetic?), so cooking other cuisines for me is all about imagination. If a book excites my imagination, through some sort of alchemy I don't understand, I can cook the food as if I've lived in that country and cooked there. (Good recipes and explanations of techniques helps, of course, but there's something else.)

Suvir, what you do is make the food come alive by giving us so much of the life that's lived with that food. Food is a physical pleasure (sensory, sensual) and none of the Indian cookbooks I have really express that. This is so odd since the first thing anyone I know who's been there says about India is that it's almost an overload on the senses in terms of color, smells, texture, multiplicity, climate, terrain.

[Suvir Saran]

Below we have a thread on cookbooks from before. It may be of interest to you all.

Cookbooks

[Brad S]

Thank you Suvir for the book link,great imformation.

So besides your book (btw,when will it be avalible?)I will look for Mrs Balbir Singh books as well as Jaffrey.

A couple question.

1, Which of Madhur Jaffreys books should I look for?

2, I hope next time in the City to go on a book hunt,can you recomend some book stores you enjoy

tia

[Sandra Levine]

Try to find The Cooking of India by Santha Rama Rau in the long out-of-print Time-Life series. It has some warmth and many evocative photos as well as recipes. That book and Jaffrey's, An Invitation to Indian Cooking are the ones I like best. That being said, Suvir has taught me, and everyone else who visits the Indian board, more about India and Indian food than any book. I always suspected that I knew next to nothing about Indian cuisine, but not until now have I confirmed how much more there is to discover. Suvir, you are a wonderful guide.

[polly]

The two Jaffrey books that I really like are 'a taste of india' and ' world of the east vegetarian cooking'.

'A taste of india' has lovely stories and information about each of the regions of India, and the vegetarian book has a wide range of foods from around Asia and the Middle East. Some really beautiful, ultra simple preparations, and good clear info on more complicated dishes that you don't often see recipes for.

If you love Asian food and vegetables, it is a great compendium.

[polly]

I second the vote of confidence in Suvir.

So much time, effort and Information from one person is rare.

PS: I hope that doesn't sound too sycophantic, I have learnt alot from everyone here.

[Suvir Saran]

Try to find The Cooking of India by Santha Rama Rau in the long out-of-print Time-Life series.  It has some warmth and many evocative photos as well as recipes.  That book and Jaffrey's, An Invitation to Indian Cooking are the ones I like best. That being said, Suvir has taught me, and everyone else who visits the Indian board, more about India and Indian food than any book.  I always suspected that I knew next to nothing about Indian cuisine, but not until now have I confirmed how much more there is to discover.  Suvir, you are a wonderful guide.

Geez! Sandra you are too kind. I am humbled and honored by your words. You are very generous.

[Suvir Saran]

I second the vote of confidence in Suvir.

So much time, effort and Information from one person is rare.

PS: I hope that doesn't sound too sycophantic, I have learnt alot from everyone here.

Thanks Polly!

And I love her book on Asian cooking. It is great if you want a book to lead you through the different cuisines and styles of Asian cooking. I love Madhur and her books. All of them.

[Suvir Saran]

Thank you Suvir for the book link,great imformation.

So besides your book (btw,when will it be avalible?)I will look for Mrs Balbir Singh books as well as Jaffrey.

A couple question.

1, Which of Madhur Jaffreys books should I look for?

2, I hope next time in the City to go on a book hunt,can you recomend some book stores you enjoy

tia

My book is due to be out next fall, 2003.

Madhur's Invitation to Indian Cooking and A Taste of India are both very good.

You can go to Kitchen Arts and Letters they are a great book store.