How Common is Working Gratis?

[johnsmith45678]

I recently saw a cooking demonstration by Frank Bonanno and he mentioned that after graduating CIA, he worked for free for two years in France, Italy, NYC (Gramercy Tavern), and CA (The French Laundry). So I got to wondering:

1. How common is working gratis, especially at the top restaurants? I've heard such restaurants have long waiting lists of job applicants, a great many of whom are willing to work for free. Do such restaurants have a lot of gratis workers as opposed to paid workers?

2. How do gratis workers pay the bills? A second job? I've known several CIA grads and they didn't seem to have any problem getting paid gigs at just about any restaurant. I think the experience of working at restaurants like The French Laundry, El Bulli, Le Bernardin, etc. are probably worth any cost, but, you know, you gotta pay the bills!

[Sam Salmon]

He was almost certainly bullshitting.

He probably received a low wage as well as subsidised housing and of course free food.

[rgruby]

The practice of working for free, or stageing (staging?), is quite common in the resto biz. Often, the stagier is provided room and board for their labour. But this is not universally true. And, the stagier may have other expenses (laundry, transport etc.) that make it a money losing proposition even if all the meals are provided for and they are also given a roof over their head. I've also heard that some places actually require you to pay for the privilege of volunteering for them. I won't name names, as I don't know for certain, but if someone else can verify?

I'd love to hear more input into your first point. In many businesses it is not unusual to have co-op terms, particularly as part of the requirements for an educational degree. It seems that some restaurants have taken this approach - albeit often outside of the scholastic realm - offering training and experience in lieu of pay (and the potential for a goood reference), and made it part of their business plan. I'm not sure exactly what to make of it. On the one hand, is it fair not to pay someone who is essentially an employee (even if they're given a room and being fed?), and are potential stagiers getting postions that would otherwise go to paid employees? I'd like to hear from folks who've done extensive stages to hear their thoughts. (I staged in Italy for three months, by the way, and have mixed feelings on the experience).

I guess another point is what sort of time commitment are the top restos demanding of their stagiers? Can you stage for a couple of weeks, or do you have to promise months?

There was an egulleter named Louisa who staged (I think) at some places in Spain and France. If anyone knows the link to her blog, could they add it? If not, I'll look it up and add it in a day or two. It's well worth perusing.

Anyhow, fascinating questions (to me) and I hope others who've staged will join in.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby

[johnsmith45678]

  rgruby said:

I staged in Italy for three months, by the way, and have mixed feelings on the experience.

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I'd love to hear more about that!

[chef koo]

we have a guy stageing with us right now. no pay. just a staff meal and the same work load as everyone else

[alanamoana]

depending upon how much experience you already have, stageing can be a way to build connections in the industry, or just a way to learn new things.

i've never done an extended stage, but i did travel to new york for two weeks one summer many years ago for a short vacation. i ended up working for one day at each of the following: eleven madison park, tabla, gramercy tavern, mercer kitchen and lespinasse. i'm a pastry person, so i got to work with some really great pastry chefs. everyone is happy for the free help, but you have to be able to work without getting in the way. they are also not looking to train someone, so your basics have to be pretty good already.

one of my stages helped me to get a job four years later when i was living in new york!

i'm sure the international stage is very different and more like an apprenticeship, although i don't have any experience with that.

also, my first restaurant job (before attending culinary school) was earned by working for free. i explained that i had no experience, but wanted to learn and got a job working for free. then, when i had gotten enough experience, they hired me for pay.

financially, you sort of have to be independently wealthy to do long-term stages. i don't know how people do it. at the time of my first job, i had just saved a bunch of money beforehand. when i ran out, i asked to be paid. my other stages were while i was on vacation, so no big deal.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

  johnsmith45678 said:

  rgruby said:

I staged in Italy for three months, by the way, and have mixed feelings on the experience.

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I'd love to hear more about that!

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Oh, yes, please. I've been offered six months in Italy, and wonder about your experience. Will you share?

[_john]

I've worked for free for several chefs. A few years ago when I had no industry experience and no street cred. a few chefs gave me a chance and let me "intern", stage, or just bum around. It was an invaluable experience, I met many people, and experienced lots of amazing food. This was in the very beginning of "farm dinners" and winemaker dinners in California. I worked for free, ate my fill, gained a lot of experience, and best of all I can say I was there. I was in college at the time and had worked an IT job for about a year to allow me to explore food work for a while with little or no income. after that I started getting paid but was still jumping around from place to place, sort of a hired gun. I showed up with a knife roll, was taught the ins and outs of an event or restaurant, banged it out and moved on. too bad I can't put "freelance chef" on my resume

[K8memphis]

I have a friend who is staging right this minute for a famous four star place. This is just a two day applying for a paying job type stage.

You can totally put staging on your resume and list the places you've staged/worked for. It has to be good for something beyond the obvious.

FFB--so sorry about your sweet puppie-dog Josie. sniff

Edited May 16, 2006 by K8memphis (log)

[johnsmith45678]

Doesn't anybody start off by washing dishes? ;P That's what I did...

[rgruby]

  FabulousFoodBabe said:

  johnsmith45678 said:

  rgruby said:

I staged in Italy for three months, by the way, and have mixed feelings on the experience.

←

I'd love to hear more about that!

←

Oh, yes, please. I've been offered six months in Italy, and wonder about your experience. Will you share?

←

Don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll keep it short. If I can. (Apparently I can't).

My stage was basically a co-op term - I was a student at a school that had an Italian program. Staging in Italy was part of the course. On the plus side, all the bureaucratic stuff and lining up the stage was done for us. This is not a small thing in Italy. But, we didn't have a lot of input into where we were sent. One guy ended up at Le Calandre, the Michelin 3 star near Padua. A few of us got set up with hotels on the Adriatic. I ended up in the kitchen of a boutique hotel a couple of hills south of San Marino. Stunning location, but isolated (I didn't have transport. The town was so small I had to walk to the next village to buy toothpaste, wine, you name it).

The stage experience itself was mixed. The hotel's clientele was mixed too - a lot of Brits, a few Americans, and Italians. We also did at least one party or wedding every week - several of them British. So we did a fair bit of salmon - not exactly a local fish. But they'd come in fresh, gutted but not scaled. I got pretty good at taking the scales off by the end. The scallops came in in the shell. Got to work with some seafood that aren't too common here - I think I cleaned a cuttlefish on my first shift, and some cannochie (or something like that) - kind of hard, pointy shrimp type things. But the shrimp was frozen and from Indonesia or Thailand. The bread was brought in, and bad. The stuffed pastas were awesome, but they were made by two women both named Paola. (I tried "helping" one afternoon - I ruined a lot of perfectly good pasta) not by the kitchen staff. Well, we made the stuffing. I was surprised by how much potato we used, and turkey as well.

Pasta for staff meal twice a day. Be prepared to eat a LOT of pasta. I was largely a prep guy - given the size and organization of the kitchen (nobody had assigned stations as such) and my level of (in)experience, that was ok. Even the sous didn't cook the pastas - that was strictly the head chef's domain. If you want more hands on - I'd make sure that is very, very clear with the place you're planning on staging at before you get there. How's your Italian? Mine was rudimentary at best, but the sous chef spoke English. The result was that my Italian didn't really improve. Which was ok in the kitchen, but was a bit of a drag outside of it. There'd be a conversation going and everybody would burst out laughing - I had no idea why.

Biggest thing I learned - keep it simple. Although my stage was an upscale restaurant, our presentations were quite simple, and there often weren't a whole lot of ingredients on the plate. But you didn't need more.

I'll stop there.

Except to add this link from Louisa's blog that I referred to upthread: http://www.movable-feast.com/el_bulli/index.html

There's some stuff on preparing for a stage there. Check out the archives for lots more on the staging experience she's had.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby