Letter Assistance/ Pastry schools/Best Ones?

[maggie]

It seems as though what you've asked from us has gone unanswered, though I have to say that my first reaction to your letter was dismay at the grammar and spelling, as well (English Major! Can't help it!). I graduated from Le Cordon Bleu in Paris ten years ago, and I was so frustrated at graduation, feeling that I'd just spent $40,000 and didn't feel at all prepared for a job. Le Cordon Bleu has no restaurant to work in, but the Chefs would set up stages for those interested. I didn't speak French well enough, so I didn't do it (big mistake!). But when I came back to the States, my Diploma in hand, I was offered every job I applied for. Granted, ten years ago, the Food Network didn't exist and celebrity chefs were only celebrities amongst chefs, but anyway...

As for what you've said about your frustration in not learning desserts in school, what you want to do and where the start status comes: In my current hotel bake shop, the dessert plater is the entry level position. It was my first job out of school. The dessert plater makes the elements of desserts that the Pastry Chef designs and writes the recipes for. The dessert plater rarely designs the desserts, until they learn how it's done and prove themselves capable. Until then, they are basically a line cook, and frequently have to do other jobs while waiting for the tickets to come in: chopping onions, peeling garlic, helping to plate salads.

The other entry level position in my kitchen actually takes more skill, that of the a.m. baker. That's where you get to use all that stuff you apparently don't want to learn now. They make the breakfast breads, the dinner rolls, lunch breads and the lunch desserts. It's not glamorous, but it is definitely a spring board into the next level. And it is a much more available position in kitchens across the country. Very few places, relatively speaking, have honest to goodness Pastry Chefs, producing the desserts you seem interested in.

Culinary school's function, like any other school, is to teach you the rules, the recipes and techniques. It's up to you to take what you've learned and make it into what you want, where you want to go. Anyone nowadays seems able to graduate from the CIA. We have a constant stream of resumes for externships from there. The ones who stand out with us are the ones who would have stood out if they'd gone to some obscure community college culinary program. They read and study and research and try hard. They ask questions and are open-minded. They don't constantly talk about what their chefs in school said versus what we tell them. They do as we ask and do it to the best of their abilities. That's what's going to get you into your own bake shop, designing those sexy desserts. It won't happen by pissing off the entire community of instructors at the CIA.

I also have to tell you that when I look at a resume and a cover letter, I do look at spelling and grammar. It's important even in this business, because someone has to write the recipes that go in our notebooks, and I will go back and change a poorly written recipe.

That you want to change what you see as wrong with your education that you're paying for is good and noble and probably needs to happen. Other advice you've received here, especially from CIA grads is advice you should probably heed. But meanwhile, learn what you can, even (or especially) about the stuff you're not interested in. It will, I promise, come in handy during your career.

Good luck!

[chiantiglace]

The other entry level position in my kitchen actually takes more skill, that of the a.m. baker. That's where you get to use all that stuff you apparently don't want to learn now.

I love bread. I worked in a bakery making bread for about a year. The only part I didnt like was dealing with 40 year old children and foreign people that barely speak english and didn't want to listen. Other than that I have a strong passion for bread as well.

It won't happen by pissing off the entire community of instructors at the CIA.

The instructors and administrators are two completely different groups. I am not attacking the instructors at all. I am not attacking anyone. In fact the instructors seem to like me a lot because I am, what one chef said, kitchen folk. It's easy for them to talk to me about the group and the world of pastry. It's also easy for them to kid around with me because another chef agreed that I have a "thick skin". I have no problems whatsoever with the instructors and If and when I make a charge for a better pastry program I doubt any of them would oppose it. It is not the instructors any student is worried about, we are practically brothers with the faculty. The administration seems to be annoying the instructors even more than us, but they are getting paid as opposed to us paying. So the balance of interest toward change is much greater on our (the students) side.

[pupkinpie2]

There have been a few threads on pastry schools and I dont know if all of them are true, but its great to hear everyones opinion. This is mainly in response to the tread about a week ago that said that community colleges were the way to go.

When I was in high school, they pushed the local community college to death. They said, oh go to community collge for 2 years then go to a regular college for the last 2 years or more. This way youll save money, it will be an easier transition, etc. Yes, this may all be true, but its a community college. You dont get the atmosphere, the independence, nor the quality of education as you would from a university or big name school out of state. Isnt this the same thing as culinary schools. If I were a chef instructor, and I was at the top of my game, I would want to teach at one of the major culinary schools because it would look good on my resume, and it would most likely pay more.

Yes the major culinary schools cost more, but I think its worth it for the right person. Now, heres another point. Not all big culinary schools are the same. Some market themselves and charge more because they want to have the image of a good school. Restaurants do this also. What you get out of culinary school also depends on you. I went to culinary school with some people who dont belong in the kitchen, some who will be happy working at a neighborhood bakery the rest of there life, some who dont want to be managers or pastry chefs, and others who decided that they didnt want to make cooking part of there career. When you get out of culinary school the job you get and your career path will all depend on you. You may not make as much or get a great job in pastry if you go to work in a small town in Georgia, Utah, South Dakota, etc. Yes, these places might have great restaurants and hotels, but how many pastry chefs are in the state compared to a place like NYC. Luck is also a big factor. As I recently found out after looking for a job after graduation, the great/perfect job depends on experience, your school, but also on luck. Are you looking for a job at the right time of year. Also how good are you at marketing yourself. Sure you might look good on paper, be great in the kitchen, and have brillant ideas in your head, but if you cant hold yourself up in an interview and make a good first impression you will never make it in the kitchen to show what your good at.

Do some of the big culinary schools cost alot. YES!!! When I went to culinary school they would up the tuition a few hundred dollars every semester. And what did we as students have anything to do about it... nothing. Sure we took our views to the student council who took them to the president, and his reply was, well look at the new facilites we built, look at our top notch professors, and look at all the great equipment we have to offer you to use.

So can you become the executive chef of a restaurant or hotel by taking the certificate program of the local community college, yes you can. But it all depends on the individual. Are you a 50 year old career changer who has 30+ years of restaurant management under his belt and just went to culinary school to learn how to cook. Are you taking the right steps to place yourself in a management position? But if your like majority of the people who go to culinary school (those just out of high school, or those who are career changers who already have a bachelors degree in a different field) than I feel in todays age and to make the process go quicker you need to go to a culinary school that will set you above the rest and make people want to hire you, and you need a bachelors degree if you want to take a management position right out of school or if you think you might want to in the next 5 years. I graduated with my bachelors degree from culinary school and some of those in my class when on to do the management training program in big name hotels such as Hyatt and Hilton and a year later they have all gotten promoted and are holding managment rolls. This happened not even a year after graduating culinary school and they are all in there 20's. And the rest of my class.... well some are working in hotels as chefs or in pastry, one is the sous chef in a restaurant, another is an assistant manager at Starbucks, and the rest I havent caught up with. But like I said you take from school what you will.

Also when your looking at culinary schools, visit them and look at the facilities and the program. You may not care that some schools offer certain features, or have a degree program. So what sets the big culinary schools apart from the local community college. I think the equipment and ingredients are on the list. My school is given the best equipment on the market as a way to market for the students. Also we had any ingredient possible. Our school wide food storage was huge. The asian dry food isle alone took up a 10 foot shelf. Some culinary schools have restaurants on campus or restaurants that the school owns (and bakeries) that students acutally work in as part of there program. This is just one more thing that prepares students better and allows them to learn more. A lot of the big name culinary schools may have more resources available. We had a full size college library full of every food related magazine available, and many in different languages, and the rest of the library was full of brand new computers and every cook book or food related book imaginable. We also had about 20+ groups that met throughout the week after school. These groups would bring in speakers, hold benefit dinners, hold tastings, bring in cook book writers, and these groups where the first to help when big name people or companies came to do demonstrations. About the instructors. I mentioned a little bit earlier, and I know my other statement could be debated, but its a fact that instructors at big name culinary schools only teach one subject or class. Now the schools are getting so big that they may have 2 instructors for one subject, but they still only teach that one subject. The availablity of an internship is also key. Most schools dont offer an internship program or only give you the option of having you work at the restaurant that they own. I got the option to choose to work anywhere and at any establishment I wanted to in the world. I choose a well known, upscale American restaurant in NYC (previous to that I had never been to NYC). I learn the pratical aspect on my internship. So now when I went to look for a job, I knew how to work in a restaurant or bakery, and I had both the book knowledge and the pratical knowledge.

Degree programs. Yes its culinary school and its different than a regular college, but a degree progam means that you are going to school longer and that you will learn more (learn more, yes, its a fact). Many community colleges only offer a 6 month program compared to 2-4 years at a big name culinary school. In a community college they will take your ethnic and foreign food classes and put them all together. At big schools they take 3 weeks per type of food (asian, american, european, etc). This is just one example. Big name culinary schools tend to get a lot more intense and have the time to explain all the details, all the options, and the technical side behind everything.

For an example. I just moved to Seattle and I was talking with someone who I work with at a non culinary related job who is actually going to the local community college to become a pastry chef. We were talking about tempering chocolate. I mentioned that I had used the seeding method the other day at work (im also a pastry chef in a restaurant). She gave me this look like she didnt know what I was talking about, so I realized that she didnt know what the seeding method was. She is in her final semester of college and had already been through chocolate class. I had to tell her that there are (which l learned) actually 4 ways to temper chocolate - tableing, seeding, block, and cold water. I would have never made it in the restaurant I work in now if I didnt know the seeding method. There is not enough room for a 3' marble slab and seeding works just as good for the applications we are using it for.

I choose to go to school at The Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, NY. I graduated last May with my Bachelors in Baking and Pastry Arts Management. I made the choice that was right for me. I also didnt want any regrets about, well what if I went to this culinary schoo, how would I be different. Now when I apply for a job that is one thing that cant be held against me. Yes it was a lot of money, to go to culinary school, and even more because I choose to do in internship in NYC and was only getting paid minimum wage. But I would go back to school and do it all over again in an instant. I learned so much and school opened so many doors for me that I wouldnt have gotten anywhere else. Since graduation I backpacked around Europe for 3 months and now im working as a Pastry Chef in a upscale American restaurant.

Do whats best for you, dont have any regrets, and make sure you look at all the options.

[tan319]

Anthony...

What are you talking about as far as "40' year old children go? and barely listening people???

They're working????

Jeez, you remind me of this assistant I had recently at some sucky job.

It's the cooking business, do you think it's chock full of intellectuals?

Not that there aren't a few but.

It seems more to me from admittedly skimming this that you're insulting the idea of culinary schools.

Theres PAGES of junk here on eGullet

about whether it's a good thing to go or not, what's the problem?

Reading about how the parking sucks from one poster is a joke.

Wait until (if you do) work at a restaurant and the boss tells you not to park closer then three blocks in circumference from the place.

The bottom line is, if you wanted to learn more about plated desserts, you should have gone to a school that at least has a specialised pastry course like ICE, FCI, The FPS (6 months and you're out, with references).

People like Richard Leach, Dan Budd, all of those Charlie Palmer/River Cafe alums of yesteryear, even Johnny Iuzinni of Jean George went to the CIA only because they were of the mind set that they wanted to savory cook and in fact, most probably didn't change their minds until they were on the job, breaking down some chickens when someone asked them to temper some chocolate or something, know what i mean?

A couple of things I think I do know...

Writing here about how the CIA is old school or sucks, where it spends it's money is counterproductive IMO, not to mention sticks a big old bullseye on YOUR back!

If that's what you want, so be it.

There's others here, myself included, who have alluded to much less vindictive scribbles (ok, maybe not me:-0) and have been "alerted" to it or worse.

Many MANY people read these forums, it's your call.

Constructively, if you don't dig the school, pull out after this first semester and go someplace that will be of more use to you.

You DO get out of it what YOU put in!

Good Luck.

PS: I DO wish I would have learned everything !!!

It's what makes me want to go back to school even now!

[paynes1]

Anthony,

Why did you choose CIA? Was it because of the name or fame, if it was the latter then it may not have been a wise choice because the fame is savory based not baking and pastry, if I'm not mistaken. Did you do your homework? Maybe you would have been better suited for other programs. Now that you are there...it seems that you are unhappy. It might be a good idea to first decide what you want your focus to be plated desserts, artisan breads, candy etc and speak to the instructors that are responsible for teaching these subjects and find out what you can do to become the best be willing to do whatever it takes and work hard. Instructors are willing to teach if they know that you are willing to learn. There is one chef at CIA that recently passed the Master Pastry Chef Exam he would be an excellent resource. If that doesn't work speak to the department head.. then the dean. If you don't like the pastry menu at the restaurants get the students together and come up with a new menu make it and present it to the instructors. CIA has a vast library of pastry resources in all languages to guide you. You could add this to your portfolio! I have worked with several of the chefs at CIA including the dean and they were phenomenal resources savory that is and the pastry instructors may be no different. I say all of this to say that writing a letter to the dean may not be the best idea. If you are bent on this letter leave out the emotions just the FACTs. Fast accurate concise and true or why not wait until you graduate you may have better leverage as an alumni. Wishing you All the Best in your Culinary Endeavors. If you can't change the situation change your position and you may see the situation differently!

Edited May 3, 2006 by paynes1 (log)

[chiantiglace]

What are you talking about as far as "40' year old children go? and barely listening people???

They're working????

Ted I wasn't sure I needed to clarify that. No they aren't doing much working. I got along with the staff fine because I did my thing and left. The 42 year old man that worked breakfast pretty much screwed up everything he had to do. Aftre the 8th week he started to get some things down. and I wouldn't consider someone that takes a 10 minute smoke break every 30 minutes a hard worker. And no I am not exaggerating that in the least. Half of his day he would come to my station and lean over the counter and ask me questions about what I was doing. I didn't mind him, he didn't bother me but he sure wasn't working at that time. Growing up even in the off season of restaurants if I leaned over and had nothing to do, my boss would find something for me to do (I like to think that didn't happen often). The other woman who worked there litterally complained about everything around her. I came to a point where I stopped responding with, oh that sucks, or im sorry to hear that, or oh you don't say. The day I stopped she scouled at me out of nowhere and said I was an asshole. I hadn't said a word all day. She had several problems that need not be discussed here on egullet.

The foreign people that worked for me did, pretty much, whatever they wanted to. I had a russian who threw away my sour dough starter 3 times on my days off throughout his term. He kept telling me it was dead because it smelt bad? Right in the middle of rolling out dough (between others proofing and bulk fermenting) he would walk off somewhere random and eat a sandwich, he hadn't been at work 3 hours! most of the time it was easier and faster for me to do the job by myself because 4 out of the 6 people working in the mornings constantly messed things up. Then I would have to take time out of my day (being the chosen superior at the time) to assess whether it can be saved or tossed. I did not get paid for the rank I was being asked to perform. I left.

I am not complaining Ted, you brought this on yourself. I have had to walk a long side of a highway through other properties to get to work. I didn't bitch because I walked along a road by the water; it was nice, warm and peaceful.

I am sorry that so many people here think I hate culinary school. The tone I am writing in is not towards my school, it's toward the people that are giving me more problems than assistance. I have taken everything here in stride and I am not giving up my ideas about a better education because a few people think the world is too tough to change. This school has gone through immense change since 1946. They need our help to keep it great. When I talk about these issues I do not receive the agile responses from them as I get here. I speak very enthusiastically. I might not be able to type that way, appologies. Before submitting this post I should have crossed my t's and dotted my i's but I really didn't think I would get a surplus of english majors not thinking on my level and just seeing the plain text. I wanted ideas to feed off of, I wanted notions to run with, I wanted perspectives to use focus. I received a good amount of that with a tablespoon of salt. It's fine with me, I am use to having to sort out the rough with the great. I am not sure I have practiced it well (I hope I have), but if I am not sure what a person means in their statement I usually do not reply, or I ask for clarification. A lot of people here kept replying grammar and spelling. I only need to read that once, I too love to jump on a bandwagon but am usually timid in doing so. I don't want anyone to think I didn't get anything out of this, I sure as hell did. It just wasn't what I thought was egullet worthy and probably became a little frustrated. I am use to people and life experience to have been through things and have info I can use, like turkeybone, cheffete, melanger, and alanamoana.

By the way, regardless of what you think, and what you think you read, I love school. This is the greatest networking I have ever been submersed into. I take every oppurtunity I can. I am at Sutdent Government meetings every wednesday. Every pastry instructor already knows me by name, and quite a few culinary instructors. I have proctored a showpiece competition, and soon I will be bringing up High-Profile chefs for demos and lectures. I just finished the finalizing with Richard Leach about a palted dessert demo on the 16th for our Baking and Pastry club. At the end of this month I have a brewery I worked for (and loved) to come up and to a beer seminar with the brew club I have been advidly part of. I have even been asked to take it over, even though I decline reasoning the baking and pastry club. I will be developing a dessert menu with some members of the baking and pastry club, and will be doing a beer and dessert pairing.

Do not tell me I hate school, I love this place. I just see where it can be better and when they give me leeway I will charge with all my might. I guess I said some things in a negative way, It's more or less confusion. I have to ask these questions in a way they will get attention. Why doesn't CIA push students through the restaurants? By the way, Chef Shorner told me today that pastry students have never gone through the restaurants. Before Apple Pie they just finished class and graduated, so now I am confused. On a similar note, a culinary friend of mine randomly brought up dessert issue for his curriculum. I was going around today advertiseing the chefs comming up for demos and he said he was really into going because he isn't going to learn enough about dinner dessert through his curriculum. So now I am stumped. At first I questioned whether I should pursue the idea of pastry students in the restaurants, or leave it be and let the culinary students feed on the scraps CIA gives the. But then I think, if plated dessert is such a controversal issue on all sides of the board, how come it hasn't been adressed for all students? Isn't this the main tie between our programs? That and bread. You can't sit there and tell me not to worry about it. If I don't who will. There always has to be someone to push an idea right? Even if its a bad idea, you never know until you try.

Also, CIA does not suck in the least, I still feel like its one of the best culinary schools in the world. There is a lot to learn here if you want to learn it. And I do. This another way I can learn more, WHY NOT MAKE THE ATTEMPT? I would rather be a loser that tried and failed, than a winner who never tried. Currently I am a loser, I pay for my school, I work on the weekends, I push the envelope for more.

There is going to be someone to disagree with something I said once again. I may be wrong somewhere, I don't know, but I'll find out sooner if I am wrong if I throw the idea(s) out there.

Edited May 3, 2006 by chiantiglace (log)

[chiantiglace]

Why did you choose CIA? Was it because of the name or fame, if it was the latter then it may not have been a wise choice because the fame is savory based not baking and pastry, if I'm not mistaken. Did you do your homework? Now that you are there...it seems that you are unhappy. It might be a good idea to first decide what you want your focus to be plated desserts, artisan breads, candy etc

I did A LOT of homework. I have been contemplating this since I was 14 years old. I have a drawer full of letters from other schools, probably in the vicinity of 35. I also have a drawer full of people reccomending CIA. I have worked for/with 9 CIA grads, 4 Cordon Bleu, probably 3 dozen Johnson and Whales, 1 FCI, and a few misc. I have tourde the campus before filling out application. I know nearly 400 culinary professionals from Richmond VA to Hatteras NC due to the nature I was brought up in. I watch tv for food, read newspapers, order magazines, visit websites and buy books. I read the entire CIA Baking and Pastry, Mastering the art and craft book prior to even filling out my application. My father went to school in Gerogetown, and he told me growing up if he could do it all over again he would have went to the CIA. If you want the information I have I will gladly send it to you. Just give me a week to find all the boxes and drawers filled with letters, files, notes, flyers, print outs, packages, and postcards. Probably cost me 50 bucks to send it UPS.

speak to the instructors that are responsible for teaching these subjects and find out what you can do to become the best be willing to do whatever it takes and work hard.

Everyday

[alanamoana]

I have a couple of questions for you Anthony.

When did CIA start the separate "Pastry and Baking" curriculum? From what I understand (which isn't too much with regard to CIA), this program is relatively new to the school (by relatively, I mean it might be ten or fifteen years old). If it is the case that the program needs to redesign itself for the (modern) times, then go ahead with your letter...taking into consideration some of the points made earlier by chefette, et al.

One of the things I've noticed about culinary schools in general is the great majority of chef instructors whose main experience is in hotels as opposed to restaurants. I'm not saying that hotels don't do plated desserts...but let's be realistic...hotel desserts, hotel pastry chefs, hotels in general are nothing like restaurants. One of the reasons I wanted to get into teaching was exactly this point. I wanted to bring in restaurant experience...plated desserts, etc.

It is funny...I've looked on-line at some of the culinary schools in New York City and they claim to have great staff...sure, they put names like Jacques Pepin, Jacques Torres, etc. on their brochures but these people are not working as full time instructors. They might make a guest appearance or demo or something. I've noticed, more than once, that an instructor's bio will say something like the following:

"So-and-so is a graduate of our fine institution. She/He spent their externship at X restaurant and now they're back here with all that great experience to teach you!" In other words, they haven't worked anywhere for any length of time.

I'm shocked by that, particularly since I have done research into teaching and have found that their requirements are ridiculous. Sound familiar?! Sort of like trying to get into culinary school after all that research and finding out that any moron with $40K can get in!

I guess what I'm saying is that it is noble to try to change things. Every effort should be made. But it will be hard, if not impossible, if you are the only one talking. Try to put out the small fires first and work your way up to the larger ones. Use your connections and allies among the chef instructors to back you up (with their permission of course, it is after all their paycheck).

Good luck.

[tan319]

Anthony...

what did I "bring" on myself?

All the incidents you refered to as part of your baking gig, that shit happens.

I'm not sure age has anything to do with it.

On the contrary, most people I've run into who need to smoke every 30 minutes are in their early 20s but this is digressing.

Any gig you work at, and I've learned this the hard way, you should do a trial, work for three days an audition of sorts, and if you see a bunch of dissatisfied malcontents and freaks ( in a bad way) I think it tells you TONS about what kind of operation is being run.

I'm not going to engage you furthur in this , at least at the moment.

To all, I've merged this thread with yet another one on schools that pupkinpie2 started yesterday.

Let's keep it tight if we can, use search engines, etc.

Thanks to all!!!!

[bripastryguy]

Anthony,

I am a graduate of CIA, October 91. I feel that the school gave me my basic knowledge of how things should be done, not how they were actually done.

When I attended, the B&P program was not offered, it was started the block after I graduated. I was "trained" on the savory side and consider me education invaluable to me, most of my pastry knowledge was learned on the fly, not in the class room until I started to take classes, and spend time with people like: Jaquey Pfeiffer, Norman Love, Stan Ho, Michael Hu, Francois Payard, etc.... This is where I learned my pastry skills that I use to this day. As far as the circulation in the school restaurants- I AGREE! I found it to be an experience that truelly helped me grow as a culinary professional and I feel that CIA not offering the same experience to the B&P students is a slap in the face, 1 outlet is not enough and the money that's being charged to students and being raked in by Culinary schools is appauling compared to the education they are providing. New parking garages, sports facilities, etc... BULLSHIT-I think they (all culinary schools) should concentrate on the task at hand-Teaching how to do this business, give the kids the skills to make some money and better the industry not the faculties pockets. If you want more restaurant or "outlet" type experience I will have it for you, whether it be at my place or one of my many friends in the Industry.

Get the most out of school, get out and then get the experience you deserve.

Do they have B&P students do externships? If so, find the best place you can and learn everything! If you have time, shoot me a call and I'll bend my ear for ya!

Make sure not to take the "ill-fated" attitude with you when you leave CIA (as is the case in the industry)

Remember School does not make the Chef, Life, its experiences and the knowledge you gain along the way.

Are you working in manhattan now?

[chiantiglace]

I have a predecessor that graduated in '91. Yes all the B&P students are required to take an extern.

I start my extern at The Breakers in Palm Beach on July 19th. I have heard good and bad things from there. There are plenty of places that are better for me to extern, but unfortunately nobody is helping me live. I will be on my own salary so I need a paying extern site. Breakers seemed perfect for me. I am from the beach, I want to check out Florida as much as possible. I also need to network more and The Breakers has an immaculate reputation, plus they just built a new restaurant. From what I've found, if you excel yourself as a skilled extern they will throw you around where you want to go. But if you don't, like the average extern, you stick to the mundane schedule. I don't believe I am the type of person who sits still and plays the game as expected. I want as much as the Breakers will offer just as CIA. The difference is my extern I feel its easy to lose, or less care for. CIA is my life, it will always be attatched to me, and I want to do as much for it as I can.

I wish I was working in Manhatten. I took the train down last Sunday and it was remarkably harmless. I could easily do that every weekend, and would love to.

[devinf]

I graduated from CIA Greystone B&P program a little over a year ago. I attended "culinary school" proper in 94-95 (local community college). I worked hot side for a few years but am now devoted to pastry. I still owe a few thousand in student loans and currently work in the Napa Valley.

My take on all this? I want my money back. Worth it? Not really. I would have been much happier spending that much money and coming out at the end fluent in Spanish (which is unbelievably more valuable than anything you could learn in culinary school). I could have got the same education from buying a few books, Harold McGee and The Food Lover's Companion - then spending some quality time in my kitchen. I work with a guy that spent 40K on Cordon Blue and 25K at CIA. My God.

Sure, you get a wide base of exposure to things, but nothing solid you couldn't get with a bit of common sense, repetition and some base idea of what cooking is. I justify the time/money spent as a very expensive set of solid recipes and a name. The schools seem to have a large percentage of people who are career-changers that bitch that they aren't going to make 80K a year anymore or full-time students that still can't figure out what they want to be when they grow up (There were some folks I met in school who had a bachelor's degree, graduated CIA NY, did B&P at Greystone and were talking about the next school they were going to attend). Not to mention growing class sizes.

When it all comes down to it and someone asks me about culinary school, I shrug my shoulders and say "Eh. Yeah, I went." Want to change it? Go for it. But for-profit or non-profit, these larger schools are corporations and we were/are nothing but a unit. I really don't see that changing.

Devin

[turkeybone]

The Breakers, eh? Thats where I (and two of my classmates) went -- and you're going during the slow season, too. I mean -- I can't say it wasn't bad.. everyone was really nice (like, paid time during the hurricane nice) and obviously living in WPB was cool, but I felt surprisingly bored for a lot of the time. Like.. I thought 5star 5diamond would be harder, or more demanding or something.

In any case, I can't speak for the B&P side -- but I know that you want some real experience about working pastry in a restaurant -- you aren't gonna get it unless you get "in" with L'Escalier. For all the other places, desserts are 90% done in the bakeshop and finished by hapless externs in the kitchens.

[chiantiglace]

I have actually been told this turkeybone and I am prepared for the challenge. I am going to do everything I can to work in L'Escalier, and I would also like to do a little work in Echo, the Asian fusion restarurant.

Besides, I will be close to Miami and will always be looking for a part time job, maybe something a little more itneresting.

[turkeybone]

I have actually been told this turkeybone and I am prepared for the challenge.  I am going to do everything I can to work in L'Escalier, and I would also like to do a little work in Echo, the Asian fusion restarurant.

Besides, I will be close to Miami and will always be looking for a part time job, maybe something a little more itneresting.

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Close = 90 miles, give or take. But theres plenty of places in WPB, Im sure you can find the experience youre looking for.