All About Cassoulet

[FoodMan]

would the glaze affect the liquid level? i.e. more evaporation with unglazed?

Maybe Wolfert would chime in, she's the expert. But if I had to guess I would say yes: no glaze = more evaporation.

Elie

[formerly grueldelux]

Are flageolets worth the price? The store I found them at doesn't have that high of turnover on their dry goods, so I can't be guaranteed how fresh they are, and they were 8 bucks for 1/2 a pound. I also live in an area where these are hard to come by.

That price is insane! I get them for $2/pound at my local natural foods place. Paying $16 a pound for beans is completely counter to the spirit of the dish, which I prefer to interpret as "tasty dish of beans, meats and sausage." I saw a repeat of a Jacques Pepin show on cassoulet recently and I thought his attitude towards the dish was right on: Put on a pot of beans with a large cheesecloth satchel containing the usual aromatics plus a chunk of ham and some whole onions. Meanwhile, in a large roasting pan, roast a medium pork roast and a duck, draining fat regularly. Make a sausage with ground pork, garlic etc., form into a fat log and wrap tightly in plastic, tying the ends. Put in bean pot. When everything is done, chop/carve up the meats and veg., combine everything, top with breadcrumbs, broil. Flageolets, confit, clay vessels etc. are fine for a laugh but basically beside the point.

michael

[Wolfert]

would the glaze affect the liquid level? i.e. more evaporation with unglazed?

Maybe Wolfert would chime in, she's the expert. But if I had to guess I would say yes: no glaze = more evaporation.

Elie

If you break the glaze from time to time in order to encourage evaporation and to get those burnished juices down into the center the final flavor will be better.

[Carolyn Tillie]

would the glaze affect the liquid level? i.e. more evaporation with unglazed?

Maybe Wolfert would chime in, she's the expert. But if I had to guess I would say yes: no glaze = more evaporation.

Elie

If you break the glaze from time to time in order to encourage evaporation and to get those burnished juices down into the center the final flavor will be better.

I think they were referring to the glaze on the pot, wondering if there is a difference between a pot that is glazed inside vs. not glazed inside - not the crust on the cassoulet.

[Wolfert]

you are right..

Glazing on the outside is optional, I think. I know glazing should be on the inside to keep a slow steady evaporation of moisture.

Edited January 29, 2004 by Wolfert (log)

[phlawless]

Honestly, if I knew how labor intensive this was going to be, I might have thought twice about it. And it's not just the prep: I've been driving around a 30 mile radius all afternoon obtaining necessary pork products (Wolfert: I decided on your cassoulet de toulouse recipe). And that's not including the duck/duck fat. Thankfully a good friend owns a restaurant and they happen to roast whole ducks a few times a week, so I was able to get all I needed from them.

I'm having a hard time finding the pork skin (in North Carolina...can you believe it??). Can I substite salt pork?

[Wolfert]

yes, you can substitute salt pork but it would be smart to soak it overnight in water to remove the salt.

Any good cassoulet recipe is long and complicated, but please don't be intimidated, most of the steps are prepared in advance.

Edited January 29, 2004 by Wolfert (log)

[Carolyn Tillie]

(Wolfert: I decided on your cassoulet de toulouse recipe).

That's the one I made this last Christmas -- after having made Julia's, Saveur's, D'Artagnan's, and a few others, Ms. Wolfert's is the one I'll be sticking with...

You won't regret it and I think (hope, at least), that you will THOROUGHLY enjoy it.

Do report back now, y'hear?

[phlawless]

I guess I should have started this last week-end...

One thing to know is that I'm a pastry chef, and breaking down whole ducks is not something I'm accustomed to; though I see them do it on the other side quite often. Not to mention, my boning knives have seen sharper times.

[phlawless]

I have to admit, it was effing amazing! I had never had it before, and it was much better than expected.

The only complaint I had was that it was a tad dry, I had a hard time getting a crust, and left it in a little long which caused a bit too much evaporation. But I'm so glad I didn't skimp on the ingredients, especially the flageolets.

Once I figure out how, I'll post photos.

Thanks for all your helpful advice!

[Wolfert]

if your cassoulet seems a little dry, it is ok to baste the top with a little fatty stock or juices to keep it going. You might also think about lowering the temperature of the oven.

Edited February 2, 2004 by Wolfert (log)

[phlawless]

My oven temp is somewhat unreliable, and it could have been running too high. I'm assuming adding a bit of stock to the leftovers won't hurt it, right?

[Carolyn Tillie]

My oven temp is somewhat unreliable, and it could have been running too high. I'm assuming adding a bit of stock to the leftovers won't hurt it, right?

Nope - won't hurt a bit!

With my leftovers, each day I had it I ended up adding a bit of stock or water to re-heat.

Somehow, they taste better the next day too!

So, what wine did you have?

[phlawless]

We had an '85 Chateau Magnol that my guests had been saving. The evening ended with prunes, armanac, and almond madeleines.

[FoodMan]

We had an '85 Chateau Magnol that my guests had been saving. The evening ended with prunes, armanac, and almond madeleines.

Sounds very nice. I would love to see pics as well.

Elie

[RonC]

Hmmmm, my wife are I are truly lovers of great cassoulet, so this thread sure makes our taste buds water. Our favorite cassoulet chef, Pierre Pollin of LeTitti deParis, has now sold the restaurant to Michale Madden, but fortunately Pierre taught Michael well and the cassoulet continues to be wonderful. Just love those beans!!!

Sidecar Ron

[A Patric]

I just found this:

http://www.claycoyote.com/store/index.cfm/...id/62/index.cfm

[Carolyn Tillie]

Actually, the progression of my hunting for a cassole ultimately encouraged this firm to produce that pot. In 2003, when I began my search, my only hope was having someone travelling to and from France to bring me one. For the first several years, I ended up borrowing pots from Ms. Wolfert to create my cassoulet. She then began a dialogue with this firm and we are now both proud owners of this American-made cassole. By all accounts, they have produced almost a hundred cassoles and every few months, I get e-mails from folks who are thrilled to be able to acquire an affordable, effective, stunning cassole.

This year's cassole, as a matter of fact, was produced in exactly one of these pots -- a Christmas present from the divine Ms. Wolfert...

[bleudauvergne]

Now lets also get some perspective on this, I was recently very dissapointed when I ordered a "cassoulet de ..." or something or other and got a watery ragout resembling ratatouille and nothing close to cassoulet. Restauranteurs all over France are cashing in on the name.

It's one of those things that is not officially defined or protected in the common sense except by people who delve into food history and have a vested interest in the matter - like people who claim to have the recipe. I agree that there are some principles and each group has a different list of heretical ingredients to be avoided at all costs - some say chicken in any form is wrong, others say mutton has no place in the dish, whereas there's someone else saying that without it it can't by definition be a cassoulet, etc. Years ago, Paula Wolfert tried to find the true cassoulet and then changed her project to looking for the one that tastes the best when she realized the polemic goes in all directions. There are cassoulets "in the style of"... from all over the place.

As for the beans, I was discussing the issue of the cassoulet with my butcher not long ago in convincing him to guide me through producing sausages of the various kinds correctly with the best ingredients from scratch with his equipment during one of his down days. I didn't trust myself to get the sausages right, not being a professional. Normally I would consider him a very serious gourmand if not a gourmet in his own right, but this time I was shocked when he scoffed at the idea of his friend seeking out the soisson for his cassoulet. He said they were too expensive. After having tried them I will have nothing else. But some do not agree.

It's true, the Soisson is produced in one single town in France, and the cassoulet is a phenomenon that spans much further. I saw some beans on sale in a sack with this on the label:

type

SOISSON

Wrong? I thought so. But legal in any case. I think that everyone will agree that the bean has to hold up to long cooking. Will the fava bean hold up? I'm not quite sure.

I would like to pose another question. Does la saucisse de couenne have a place in this dish?

[John Whiting]

My sympathies are with those who are prepared to expend a certain amount of time, energy and money in making what goes into their mouths as pleasing as possible, without devoting their entire lives to it.

There are reputable food scholars who suggest that the cassoulet evolved from the Jewish cholent. In most of Europe, geese were in short supply, so perhaps they may be forgiven for having used brisket.

EDIT:

The Larousse gastronomique (1997) cites other versions [of cassoulet] from Montauban and Comminges and quotes a gastronomic ‘decree’ of the 1960s, stating that a true cassoulet must contain at least 30% pork (which can include sausage), mutton, or [sic] confit d’oie (goose). However, the same work acknowledges the existence of a fish cassoulet made with salt cod.

Alan Davidson, The Oxford Companion to Food

There are two recipes for Cassoulet de morue in Pierre Koffmann's Memories of Gascony. The first and simpler of these is on line here.

Edited May 15, 2006 by John Whiting (log)

[Ptipois]

It's one of those things that is not officially defined or protected in the common sense except by people who delve into food history and have a vested interest in the matter - like people who claim to have the recipe.  I agree that there are some principles and each group has a different list of heretical ingredients to be avoided at all costs

It is not easy, and (in my opinion) not necessary, to try to define "the" cassoulet. There isn't one canonical list of ingredients, but there are various schools, and many variants. It is not easy to tell what cassoulet is, but, as is often the case with traditional regional dishes, it is much easier to tell what it isn't.

- some say chicken in any form is wrong, others say mutton has no place in the dish

For instance chicken is a no-no in any case, but mutton has its place in one main family of cassoulet. One other family (Carcassonne) requires partridge.

I would like to pose another question.  Does la saucisse de couenne have a place in this dish?

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I think saucisse de couenne is actually part of one of the three "schools" of cassoulet. Couennes (pork rinds) should be present in any cassoulet anyway. They are actually the secret of cassoulet because they help achieve the syrupy texture of the broth. Le cassoulet du pauvre, poor peoples' cassoulet, used to be made with beans and salted pork rinds as the only meat. There is an example of this in Colette's "Gigi", when Gigi's grandmother (who has financial problems) invites Gaston to share their cassoulet, but she warns him that it's a poor people's cassoulet, "un cassoulet à la couenne". He instantly replies that he'll have a goose sent to her from his Southwestern estate.

[John Whiting]

One other family (Carcassonne) requires partridge.

←

If partridge were compulsory, Carcassonne cassoulets could only be made from October through January. Unless of course there's a confit de perdrix I haven't heard of.

EDIT: “Schools” of cuisine, like those of art, music and other social activities, are attempts to describe random activity after it has already taken place. They are versions of naïve set theory minus the intersections; i.e. they look for concentrations of similarities within a broad spectrum and ignore the borderline examples between their chosen categories that it would be impossible to place definitively in one school or another.

Prosper Montagne, his tongue firmly in his cheek, posited a cassoulet Holy Trinity of Father (Castelnaudary), Son (Carcassonne), and Holy Spirit (Toulouse). Once established, it has perpetuated contraversies as politically, economically and egotistically inspired as those of the Nicene Council. To paraphrase Marshall McLuhan, cassoulet is whatever you can get away with.

Edited May 16, 2006 by John Whiting (log)

[Adam Balic]

Likewise, Eastern Mediterranean large white beans (gigantes), which are another version of soissons, are perfect when they are young. Also, Lima beans or butter beans are nice, being closely related to soissons. And so on. It's not about using "the" perfect bean, it's about understanding beans and how they behave, wherever they come from.

There is a least one Greek casserole or gigantes beans, tomato, pork and sausage that I know of (will try to find out the name).

While, "cassoulet" is a spectrum of dishes, rather then a specific dish, I would really like to know what formally distinguishes it from numerous other bean dishes of the world. I haven't read anything definative as yet on the subject.

This issue of classification is a common problem for biologists, everybody can tell the difference between a dog and a cat, but it is actually quite difficult (for layman) to accurately describe what makes them physically different from each other. People end up taking about "Doggines" etc, and this seems to be the case with many iconic dishes - "bouillabaisse" is another example.

Edited May 16, 2006 by Adam Balic (log)

[John Whiting]

Adam, if I read you correctly, you're saying approximately what I did but with more relevance and clarity.

[Adam Balic]

John - that seems extremely unlikely.

I don't know very much about the region, but what part have restaurants/taverns/eating houses historically played in giving the dish a regional identity, in contrast to 'yet another bean and meat stew' made in private homes?