The rehabilitation of a failed baker

[gsquared]

Sorry to be late checking in. Both me and the computer had trouble waking up.

The bread looks great!  The leaven will wake up when it gets more food, its hungry

After 2 hours the dough will begin to move a bit, but probably not double. Its quite a subtle change.

The major volume increase will come from spring in the oven, and its better for the dough to be under proved than over proved.

Are you going to put it in the fridge, or let it prove for 4 hours and bake it today?

←

Theoretically, which option would be prefereable? I was leaning toward leaving it in the fridge until tomorrow.

[gsquared]

Almost forgot - here is a peek into the bag at 2 hours.

[jackal10]

Entirely up to you.

The results are slightly different, and I prefer the retarded (fridge) version. The crust in retarded loaves has characteristic fine bubbles, and is slightly redder, due to the extra sugars.

[gsquared]

Entirely up to you.

The results are slightly different, and I prefer the retarded (fridge) version. The crust in retarded loaves has characteristic fine bubbles, and is slightly redder, due to the extra sugars.

←

Great - that's what I'll do. Into the fridge until the morning. The dough can go cold into the ove, right? No need to get it to room temp first?

I have to confess to a moment of alarm when there was no sign of a rise.......

[jackal10]

If you compare the two pictures I think I see there is some rise.

Yes, the dough can go cold into the oven, Be sure to slash it well, or it will tear.

[K8memphis]

Whooo hooo hooo--There's gonna be different kind of TOUCHDOWN* today!!!

Go Gerhard Go Gerhard

*picture both arms raised straight up in triumph

[gsquared]

Whooo hooo hooo--There's gonna be different kind of TOUCHDOWN* today!!!

Go Gerhard Go Gerhard

*picture both arms raised straight up in triumph

←

Thanks K! I am trying to curtail my optimism, but confess that I am looking forward to tomorrow. What if Jack has actually pulled me through? The Artist is apprehensive. She fears that if, no, when this works out, I'll go into a frenzy of baking. She's right, of course. I have a lot of leeway to make up.

[Kouign Aman]

Gerhard, this is looking so good! Its terribly exciting to come back after days away, and see so much progress toward your goal. I am now forced, forced i say, to have sourdough toast at breakfast (commercial not homemade).

Jackal10, you are Da Breadman, mon.

Lori in PA - this is lovely: "May your starter ever bubble and your loaves never meet your foot", and so apt.

[devlin]

Ninety degrees F, huh?  I'm trying to think where in my house I could replicate that at this time of year.

←

Lori, for me, the most consistently reliable way to replicate the temperature for this sort of thing has been a cheap, pastic cooler with one of those clip-on lamps attached to the lip of the thing and with a 40 watt bulb, and covering the cooler with both the lid (which of course won't fit tight on the cooler because the lamp's clamp won't allow it) and a towel.

It's essentially the method suggested by Ed Wood in his Classic Sourdoughs, and it's a good resource for managing sourdoughs.

[Lori in PA]

Lori, for me, the most consistently reliable way to replicate the temperature for this sort of thing has been a cheap, pastic cooler with one of those clip-on lamps attached to the lip of the thing and with a 40 watt bulb, and covering the cooler with both the lid (which of course won't fit tight on the cooler because the lamp's clamp won't allow it) and a towel.

It's essentially the method suggested by Ed Wood in his Classic Sourdoughs, and it's a good resource for managing sourdoughs.

←

[rjwong]

The excitement is building, like the finals of the Tri-Nations tournament, ehh??

I'm siding with you, Gerhard!

[jackal10]

Lori:

The mother starter lives in the fridge.

When you wan to bake you take a tablespoon of the mother and make the preferment. That needs to sit at 90F for about 12 hours. If the jar of mother culture in the fridge is looking a bit low, make a double batch of preferment and put half bake in the mother.

The dough needs to proof at 90F for about four hours, or two hours at 90F then as long as you like, within reason, in the fridge, reckoning the dough takes about 2 hours to cool down from 90F.

[andiesenji]

One of the easiest proofing boxes is simply one of the inexpensive plastic storage bins available at Wal-Mart or anywhere, translucent more or less, placed over the bowl or the pans in which the dough is proofing. Lay an inexpensive heating pad on top of the box, on the lowest heat setting.

The box keeps the moisture in, the heating pad maintains just enough heat.

The boxes are 4.95 at Wal-Mart, K-Mart or Target.

[Desiderio]

Ohhh I cant wait to see the result .

I just got hold of a copy of Hammelman bread book and I am trying to read it at work and between chocolates ( bread and chocolates UMMMM.. the best combo).

I have a question I am trying out the rye sourdough starter , and it is a very different process form the mother I am use to do ( usually I do the italian type and its a very long and time cosuming porcess , but it works very good ) , I am not sure about the rye starter there it is kinda stinky , haha well I hope it works.

You got us all exited here I cant wait till tomorrow .Go go go Gerhard

[gsquared]

I think that I am a cautious man. The Artist maintains that I am a pessimist. Be that as it may, I baked off two trays of muffins first this morning. At least the guests will have something should all go awry with the bread.

I turned the shaped loaves onto two small, floured pans to use as peels, and slashed. Maybe I was not firm enough with the slashing........

The loaves immediately flattened out, sort of subsided into flatter shapes when I removed them from the couche.

Oven preheated to 240C with cast iron pan for steam. The peels did not work well. I had to nudge and prod to get them onto the baking plate. I will definitely get myself a strip of wood to use as a peel. In any event, they are in the oven. And I wait. Too early for a small libation, but should this come out even halfway decent, by gad, I shall have a glass of Lagavulin. Peering outside, I see the seagulls gathering......

[Tepee]

....no doubt some of them are hanging at a cliff......Tension mounds...Shall we wake Jack up?

Do you have semolina? They act like mini ball bearings under the loaves.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[gsquared]

No Lagavulin for me this morning, I fear.

No oven spring at all, in fact no spring of any nature.

Oy Vey!

I shall start a new preferment and wait for Jack.

[Tepee]

Awww....(((hugs))). We'll be here to support your efforts. Am glad to hear that you're persevering......"The journey is the reward"*. I'm confident you'll fulfill your purpose.

* wise chinese saying.

Jack! Wake up!

Edited April 10, 2006 by Tepee (log)

[Anna N]

Hang in there! I found the hardest part was to get them from their resting place to the oven without deflating them. Jack will come on with great advice shortly, I am certain. This is more exciting than my favourite murder mysteries. With so many people pulling for you, you will succeed.

[rjwong]

No Lagavulin for me this morning, I fear.

No oven spring at all, in fact no spring of any nature.

Oy Vey!

I shall start a new preferment and wait for Jack.

←

... BOTHER!! ...

Gerhard, your efforts are noted and greatly appreciated. I'm still siding with you.

[jackal10]

Oh dear! Alas alack!

I'm very puzzled, it all looked like it was going so well. The dough often deflates some when you slash it, but it recovers in the oven.

Maybe it was that pause with the preferment overnight, but I often do that, and the fact that the dough deflated showed there had been some activity.

However it does look like the the bread has been somewhat overproved - wet and little oven spring.

Another thought. Did you use bottled water for the dough? I know you did for the preferment, and if your local water has a lot of chlorine in it that can affect the yeast.

I'd suggest:

a) A little less water - maybe 300g to make the dough easier to handle. Different flours adsorb different amounts.

b) A little less proving time. You might try refrigerating overnight pretty well as soon as you have shaped the dough. I used to do that with some success. Now I tend to prove for 3-4 hours and bake straight, although I have in the oven now some baguettes that I proved for 2 hours and then refrigerated overnight and they have sprung fine. You might want to prove for 3 hours hen bake, then add the refrigeration step when the basic dough is OK.

I do hope you will persevere....

Edited April 10, 2006 by jackal10 (log)

[gsquared]

Oh dear! Alas alack!

I'm very puzzled, it all looked like it was going so well. The dough often deflates some when you slash it, but it recovers in the oven.

Maybe it was that pause with the preferment overnight, but I often do that, and the fact that the dough deflated showed there had been some activity.

However it does look like the the bread has been somewhat overproved - wet and little oven spring.

Another thought. Did you use bottled water for the dough? I know you did for the preferment, and if your local water has a lot of chlorine in it that can affect the yeast.

  I'd suggest:

a) A little less water  - maybe 300g to make the dough easier to handle. Different flours adsorb different amounts.

b) A little less proving time. You might try refrigerating overnight pretty well as soon as you have shaped the dough. I used to do that with some success. Now I tend to prove for 3-4 hours and bake straight, although I have in the oven now some baguettes that I proved for 2 hours and then refrigerated overnight and they have sprung fine. You might want to prove for 3 hours hen bake, then add the refrigeration step when the basic dough is OK.

I do hope you will persevere....

←

Thanks, Jack. Of course I will persevere.

Yes, I used bottled water for both the preferment and the dough.

I am suspicious of the amount of water/flour. The preferment I mixed this morning with 100g flour and 100g water seems stiffer than the one in the EGCI thread.

So, I think that I will change only one variable, and that is the quantity of water as you suggest. I will make the dough early eveing, allow 2 hours proving, overnight in the fridge and then bake off. D'accord?

O yes, I fixed the oven light and will use the oven for proving and for keeping the preferment at 30C.

[gsquared]

Thanks for the good wishes, Anna, TP and Russell. I am motivated by the fact that it is not my reputation as a bread baker at stake here. That is pretty much non-existant. I cannot allow Jack to fail as a teacher.

[jackal10]

It starts stiffer, but as the acid and the enzy,es in the sourdough attack the starch it gets wetter as it matures.

I really would reduce the proof time

Wet preferments are usally 100% hydrated (equal weight of flour and water).

If made with yeast the term poolish is used, but for sourdough liquid leaven is more normal.

Edited April 10, 2006 by jackal10 (log)

[Swisskaese]

Is the dough suppose to be that wet?

It is very humid here in Israel and I find that I have to knead my dough more than I did in the States and in Europe in order for the dough to maintain its shape. Of course the flour is also different here.

Edited April 10, 2006 by Swisskaese (log)