Urgent Advice Sought- 2 wk France Trip

[Wimpy]

To all you Francophile culinary sages and masters of of trivia and the eclectic, I seek your advice.

Wife and I set to spend 2 weeks in France Aug. 3 to 17th. Will be in Paris (coz staying at friend's apt.), Dijon (Aug. 3 for cousin's wedding) and Chartres (Aug. 15 for my goddaughter's baptism).

Questions:

1) Where to stay in Dijon?

2) Where to eat in Dijon? Apart from that place in Seaulieu (name escapes me now), are there any other establishments of note?

3) I've been to La Cote St. Jacques in Joigny in 1999. Had fantastic menu degustation experience. Has anyone been there recently? Is it worth another visit?

4) Am renting car in Dijon- we're debating whether to drive to Strasbourg. Frankly apart from food (which of course is sufficient reason in itself), is it worth going? Alas, wife does not share total enthusiasm for gastronomy as I do and feels nothing to do in Alsace but food. Normandy on other hand, seems to offer both history and food (but have not seen many Michelin star rated places there).

5) Finally Chartres- any day trip near Chartres worth going to (historic/cultural as well as gastronomic)? Have done the Loire Valley thing a few times already so anything but that!

Suggestions most welcome. I am also kinda planning to wing things as far as reservations are concerned (i.e. calling a day ahead for reservations). Worked perfectly well in October 1999, but is it too risky for August 2002 given peak season? Thanks!

[Beachfan]

I haven't been to Normandy, but I would think Strasbourg has more history, in fact much more. It is extremely beautiful as well, as is the rest of Alsace.

Strasbourg is set in the middle of a river, was not damaged in WWII and has beautiful architecture. It'g my favorite city of it's size in France.

[cabrales]

Strasbourg has a well-known cathedral, with an astrological clock featuring various small moving parts. I wouldn't go to Strasbourg except for Buerehiesel (in town) or L'Arnsbourg (taxis are expensive to L'Arnsbourg).

I was in Cote St-Jacques in 2001, and liked my meal there. You can access it using the train from Paris to Joigny. If required, I can provide specifics on restaurants in the general region (including Loiseau's La Cote d'Or in Saulieu), once you pinpoint the one or two in which you are interested. I like Cote St-Jacques more than La Cote d'Or. Searches of the board should yield some information on each.

[lizziee]

Wimpy,

Please be aware that most Paris Michelin star restaurants, except for the hotel restaurants, the bistro and the brasserie are closed in August.

Buerehiesel in Strasbourg is also closed in August. I have not been to Joigny since it lost a star, but had a wonderful meal there many years ago.

[Patrice]

Near Dijon, at Premois, there's a very good 1 star restaurant: L'Auberge de la Charme

The chef, David Zuddas does some very creative food:-foie gras with smoked tuna

-Sandre with yellow carrots cream and bleck carvi

-Dates jelly with pineapple, fremented milk and argan oil sorbet, pollen infusion and pain de gênes.

[Wimpy]

Lizziee-

Thanks for the warning.

Yes, I am aware of my unfortunate choice of travel time- smack in the middle of the time when the French themselves are on vacation! But have little choice, given demands at work.

And yes, I realized Burehiesel is closed during the time in question. Now, question is a) can I get reservations for Le Krokodil at this late date and b) even if I could, is Le Krokodil worth the trip to Strasbourg? I might also be comparing apples to oranges as I get the impression Burehiesel is more traditional alsacienne while Le Krokodil is more "refined".

I do have a fallback plan which may end up being quite pleasant. As my dear Parisian friend has left me her apartment at our disposal during the entire two weeks, we could base ourselves there and go to different marches in Paris to buy stuff to cook in the apartment. We'll use Paris to make day trips anywhere up to a 3 hour radius by car... I've "been there, done that" as far as the tourists spots around France many times in my salad days, so a quieter, slow paced vacation may not be a bad idea.

Not ALL restaurant, bistros and the like are closed in the first half of August, I hope. Surely not....

[Bux]

Not all restaurants and bistros are closed, just enough to make it as annoying as month of Sundays in the bad sense. My guess is that you'll find a lot of food shops closed as well. Even Bertillon the famous ice cream shop on the Ile St. Louis takes a good vacation in the summer. A current Michelin guide will prove helpful in terms of restaurant closing date information.

I think Alsace is as interesting as Normandy over all. It's different but hardly devoid of history, it's been around as long as Normandy. Both Strasbourg and Colmar are worth visiting if just for a day. The Issenheim retable (Unterlinden museum in Colmar) is one of those works of art that actually manages to be as impressive as its reputation suggests it should be. The problem with Alsace in August is that its likely to be overrun with tourists from across the Rhine. Normandy may be overrun with tourists from across the channel and muchof northern Europe as well.

I would not count on finding reservations nearly as easy in August as in October.

We enjoyed Loiseau's place in Saulieu immensely, but it was many years ago that we were there.

[Wimpy]

Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

Last night, I got over my procrastination and started calling France to make arrangements.

1) Booked a place in Dijon for one night "Chateaux de Gilly" rated by Michelin as having a red "four gable rating" and with a restaurant having a four fork rating (red). I am looking into options to dine at Michelin star restaurants in the vicinity but well, many are closed in August.

2) Booked a place in Strasbourg for one night "Regent de Contades" rated by Michelin as having a red "three gable rating" and with bfast served only.

3) Booked lunch for two at "Au Crocodile" in Strasbourg rated two star Michelin. Burehiesel is closed.

Looking at the Paris restaurants, there is only one three star Michelin open in August! That's Pierre Gagnaire's place. Will call them tonight to see if there is any slot free for either lunch or dinner.

As I said, last resort is to hole up in my friend's Paris flat and cook stuff bought at local marches. Does anyone know a good website that has all the opening days/times for the food markets of Paris?

Thanks!

[lizziee]

Wimpy,

Buy Patricia Wells's The Food Lover's Guide to Paris. (Make sure it's the latest edition) She not only lists which restaurants are open in August, but will also give you all the resources you need for food markets etc.

I have eaten at Chateaux de Gilly, although it was many years ago. The dining room is in a cloister-like room - the ceilings were vaulted and the floor of stone. As I rememeber, we were pleasantly surprised; service was good and the food quite good. At Gilly, they even have "musical evenings"; I don't remember exactly how this works, but there was a brochure at the front desk detailing their special evenings.

I can't help with Strasbourg as I have never been - this year will be our first time in that area.

[jaybee]

Popeye's Wimpy was a hamburger freak. If you like sausages and have a meal open in Strasbourg, try Maison Kammerzeller. The Choucroute Royale is not to be missed, if, as I say, you like sausages...and good beer.

It is right next tothe Cathedral.

[cabrales]

I am also kinda planning to wing things as far as reservations are concerned (i.e. calling a day ahead for reservations).

Wimpy -- Have you considered attempting to identify a list of restaurants in which you would be interested, and finding out their closing dates (if any) in August from the Michelin Red Guide?

[marcus]

The Grand Monarch hotel in Chartres has a very decent bourgeois restaurant that gets 14 from the Gault Millau. It is well worth this 14, but probably no more. With the right mind set, its a very satisfying meal. Most outstanding however is their wine list, very extensive and one of the least expensive in France. I made numerous special trips there when they were serving 1978 La Chapelle for about $65 (including tax and service), a wine that sells at auction in NY for more than $500. The 78 was gone last December, but they did have the 89 for under $60 which has been selling here for about $140. There are many other bargains to be picked, as well as one of the very best lists of Loire wines.

[hollywood]

You probably know this but in Chartres you have to go on Malcolm Miller's tour of the cathedral. The man puts stained glass windows in the proper context.

[jaybee]

Wimpy, I'l add a plug for my brother-in-law's book The Bistros of Paris by Robert and Barbara Hamburger. It is a year old but has good information on bistros and wine bars, also ones that are open on Sunday, and vacation dates. It is available from Amazon or Barnes and Noble. Having done some small part of the research for the book I can attest for its impeccable accuracy and high level of taste.

Also you would do well to read John Whiting's reviews, which are posted on his web site.

[Peter B Wolf]

......As I said, last resort is to hole up in my friend's Paris flat and cook stuff bought at local marches.  Does anyone know a good website that has all the opening days/times for the food markets of Paris?  

Thanks!

Here is a list of my files. This should help.

Paris Food Markets and Stores

Parisian markets come in every shape, size, and specialty. Some are covered, some are street-side, some are nomadic. But you will find fresh fruits, ripe vegetables, colorful locals, and a delightful shopping experience at every single one. You may also find fresh seafood, whole rabbits, and the occasional eatery. The covered markets and market streets are open Tuesday-Sunday from 08:00-13:00h, and in the afternoons from 16:00-19:00h. The roaming markets appear more randomly throughout the week and are usually only open during in the morning.

Market Streets :

Rue Daguerre (14e)

Metro: Denfert-Rochereau (4, 6, RER B)

Rue Mouffetard (5e)

Metro: Censier-Daubenton (7)

Rue Montorguell (1er)

Metro: Chatelet-Les Halles (RER A, B, D)

Marche d'Aligre (12e)

Metro: Ledru-Rollin (8)

Rue de Levis (17e)

Metro: Villiers (2, 3)

Rue Poncelot (17e)

Metro: Ternes (2)

Rue Cler (7e)

Metro: Ecole-Militaire (6)

Daumesnil (6e)

Metro: Mabillon (10) or Odeon (4, 10)

Covered Markets

Marche St-Germain (6e)

Metro: Mabillon (10)

Marche St-Quentin (10e)

Metro: Gare de l'Est (4, 5, 7)

Location: 85, bd Magenta

Marche Passy (16e)

Metro: La Muette (9)

Location: rue Bois-le-Vent and rue Duban

Roving Markets

Daumesnil (12e)

Metro: Daumensil (6, 8)

Location: bd de Reuilly and pl Felix-Eboue

Marche Bastille (11e)

Metro: Bastille (1, 5, 8)

Location: bd Richard-Lenoir

Boulevard du Port-Royal (5e)

Metro: Port-Royal (RER B)

Place Monge (5e)

Metro: Place Monge (7)

Marche Biologique (6e)

Metro: Sévres-Babylone (10, 12)

Location: bd Raspail

Avenue de Saxe (7e)

Metro: Segur (10)

Cour de Vincennes (12e)

Metro: Nation (1, 6, 9, RER A)

Boulevard Auguste-Blanqui (13e)

Metro: Place d'Italie (5, 6, 7) or Corvisart (6)

Location: Between Place d'Italie and Baurrault

All are closed Monday, unless specified.

Some of the best ones are:

* Rue de Mouffetard (5e arrondissement, Metro: Cardinal Lemoine), one of the city's oldest, bursting with local color and produce;

* Rue de Buci (6e arrondissement, Metro: Mabillon, open 8 AM-7:30 PM), with food as well as flowers in the nearby Carrefour de Buci (rue de Buci at rue Mazarine);

* Marché St.-Germain (rue Mabillon at rue Clement, Metro: Mabillon, open 8 AM-7:30 PM);

* Rue Cler (7e arrondissement, Metro: Ecole-Militaire), very upscale and excellent quality;

* Marché Château-d'Eau, an ancient covered market—vegetarians stay clear of this one (10e arrondissement, Metro: Château d'Eau, open 8 AM-7:30 PM);

* Marché St.-Quentin, historic, similar to old Les Halles market, with lots of gourmet goodies (85 boulevard Magenta, 10e arrondissement; Metro: Gare de l'Est, open 8 AM-1 PM, 3:30 PM-7:30 PM, Sunday to 1 PM only).

[Peter B Wolf]

Again, from my files, and maybe a bit out of date. But try anyway.

Shopping on rue des Martyrs

Where to begin? You have five boucheries, three fromagers, three charcuteries, half a dozen greengrocers, a couple of excellent wine merchants, a bunch of boulangeries and a panoply of patisseries.

Ignore if you can the temptations of Arnaud Delmonte, artisan boulanger et patissier, at number 39. Tartelettes au citron, dômes au chocolat and the best bread in the quartier (as the queue outside testifies). Serge Hermier (no 10) is every bit as good and the queue every bit as long (more than 20 speciality breads, try his Tresse des Martyrs brioche), and just round the corner at 21 rue Condorcet is the legendary M J-M Grolleau, who even lets you watch him baking his baguettes.

A little way down the rue des Martyrs, at no 23, is Aux vrais produits d'Auvergne, a fine regional charcutier whose 18 varieties of saucisson I defy you to pass by. Fine foie gras is next door at no 25 (Aux jambons d'autrefois), while across the road at no 48 is M Mollard, my favourite cheesemonger - though La Fromagerie des Martyrs at no 5 is arguably better for chèvre, and does a notably lively camembert.

Even if you decide not to burden yourself with any of this fare, spend an hour or so on the rue des Martyrs of a weekend morning.

THERE are plenty of good Affineurs in the region, and some farther afield. The two best in Paris, in my view, are Roger Alleosse at 13, rue Poncelet, near the Arc de Triomphe in the 17th Arrondissement, and Marie-Anne Cantin, at 12, rue du Champs de Mars, across the Seine in the Seventh.

Patissiers

Pâtisserie Stohrer, 51, rue Montorgueil, 75002 Paris

Pâtisserie Brocco , 180, rue du Temple, 75003 Paris

Gérard Mulot , in St.-Germain-des-Prés - 76, rue de Seine, 75006 Paris

[cabrales]

Have members discussed Rue Lepic, close to Pigalle, on the board?

[Wimpy]

Hi Peter B Wolf! Thanks so much for your detailed inputs! I'm debating whether to leave all my France guides behind and just bring my laptop to access egullet for help when and as I need it!

I will certainly check out the open markets you mentioned. Rue Mouffetard was shown in the movie "Amelie" and am curious.

Three more days before I'm on Air France en route to the City of Lights (and croissant, and cheeses, and pastries....).

[Wimpy]

Wimpy -- Have you considered attempting to identify a list of restaurants in which you would be interested, and finding out their closing dates (if any) in August from the Michelin Red Guide? 

Cabrales: to be sure I did! With me and procrastination, once motivated, I usually become quite efficient. I guess I needed egulleteers to light a fire under my a__.

Anyway, I looked up the Michelin website for all the Michelin 3,2 and 1 star restaurants in Paris (I have the book but with the web, can print out conveniently). I struck out every restaurant that is closed in August.

I forget the exact numbers (left list somewhere), but of the 1 stars, only about 20% were open. of the 2 stars, 30% and of the 3 stars- only 1 restaurant was open- Pierre Gagnaire.

The good news is that Pierre Gagnaire responded to my email today and am pleased to announce that the wife and I have dinner for two confirmed! I take this as a good omen on the eve of my departure for La Belle France.

The next apprehension is what to wear, what to order, how to behave. I'll do a thorough search of this site for the answers! I will try to take pictures though and I will ask for a copy of the menu.

[lizziee]

Wimpy,

The reason it took Pierre Gagnaire some time to respond is that they are closed from July 15 to July 30.

Have a wonderful time. Enjoy Pierre Gagnaire.

[cabrales]

Wimpy -- I called L'Astrance for my own purposes. The message (in French) indicated the restaurant is closed until lunch on August 20.

[Wimpy]

Thanks Cabrales & salut from Paris! Just arrived in the City of Lights after a rather grueling 4 hour drive from Strasbourg. Grueling because I just finished a 3 hour, 9 course lunch at Au Crocodile and then stepped right into the car for my drive! Luckily, my wife was sitting next to me to slap me awake all the way to Paris! FYI, as I am allergic to wine, DUI was not an issue. However, the meal alone while delightful, was demanding the undivided attention of my bloodstream which was supposed to be providing oxygen to my brain for the long drive! Heavy rains did not help (all of Europe seems to be affected by unseasonal rainfall).

To summarize my Au Crocodile experience:

1) staff were friendly & professional (I only found out they spoke perfectly good English towards the end of the meal- they thought I wanted to practice my French!)

2) Chef Jung and wife were pleasant and courteous (we were the only foreigners today- and they seemed rather flattered that we came all the way from Manila).

3) Foodwise, I got the impression that dessert was not his forte (good, but nothing exceptional), however, his foie gras poelee with peaches and veau with chanterelles (aka girolles) was very good. We were served an amazing polenta on which some roasted turbot with shavings of black truffles was placed. The polenta had a wonderful, homemade (corn-y) taste (yes, I know it's made from corn, but the corn and nuttinesss was especially pronounced).

4) They offered me a miniature take home copy of the menu selected without my asking.

5) They tolerated my picture taking with grace (made sure not to use flash).

6) The sommelier was the epitome of tact and understanding, as he accepted my allergy to wine without question and proceeded to assist my wife in her choice of wines. She discovered a nice aperitif- a Gewurztraminer Vendages Tardives 1999 Wolfberger & Equisheim.

In Paris, apart from a Pierre Gagnaire dinner next week, I plan to look for more down home Parisian bistro cooking.

A bientot!

[Bux]

We're all glad to hear you have Internet access and a good conscience. We expect to hear from you on a regular basis.

[lizziee]

Wimpy,

Did you notice anything from the staff in terms of attitude or atmosphere that Au Crocodile had been demoted from 3 stars to 2? Would you say that Michelin was correct in their assessment?

We look forward to your posts.

[cabrales]

Wimpy -- Thanks for the report. It sounds like you did not order the Victor Hugo menu at Jung's.