Lamb/Goat

[Suvir Saran]

Do you see yourself cooking more with Lamb or Goat?

What recipes do you use?

Where are these recipes from?

What cuts of lamb do you use for these recipes?

Where do you buy your meat?

[Toby]

The first Indian food I ever cooked was Lamb Pullao from Jaffrey's Invitation to Indian Cooking. I loved that dish and used to cook it over and over. I always used lamb neck -- it was very inexpensive and I prefer meat with bones. I'd never use an expensive cut of lamb for stewing. I also used to make pyazwala khare masale ka gosht -- lamb neck or shoulder with whole spices and onions, and kheema with ground lamb and peas. I also cook Italian lamb stews and Moroccon tagines; also a Moroccan steamed lamb, where the shoulder or neck is left whole and rubbed with a paste of garlic, cilantro, cumin, salt, pepper and olive oil and then steamed for about 2 hours. The meat comes right off the bone. Is meat ever steamed in India?

The only place I've found whole lamb neck in New York is in the meat stores on 9th Avenue in the 30s. Does anyone know other sources?

I eat a lot of Jamaican curry goat and that also uses bony meat. The only goat I've seen has been in Chinatown butchers, but it's frozen. Again, sources for fresh goat?

Some recipes, Suvir, please for Indian lamb/goat dishes?

[anil]

..... Again, sources for fresh goat?

....

Try some Halal butchers in Bklyn, or Bronx. The operant word is "mutton"

[Suvir Saran]

As usual Anil gave us the Key Answer.

Jackson Heights, at the Indian stretch, there are Halal butchers that will give you all the baby goat you ever want. Great meat there. If you read the thread on Chicken Curry I think, I speak of my cooking at our Pakistani friends house and her refrigerator having colossal amounts of goat meat in it.

Most friends of mine from India never use lamb. They use baby goat meat and it is Superb.

I will try and get you some recipes Toby. Will PM some your way. You can test them for my book.

[col klink]

Suvir, great topic!

I find myself cooking lamb more than I cook goat. But that's because my primary source for meat carries the most magnificent lamb I've ever seen. If I want to do goat, I have to go to a place which would rather sell cigerattes. They have decent goat, but I'd rather go to a place that specialized in meat. Also, I can think of at least 6 or 7 different places where I can get lamb and only one where I can get goat. I live in Seattle by the way.

As with 90% of the meat I cook, I smoke it, more than likely with maple. With goat I've had the best results when I brine it first. Sometimes I like to throw some curry in my brine as well. My favorite part of the goat has been the forequarter. You get some shoulder meat, arm meat and rib meat. At my bbq a little over a year ago, everyone was hovering over the front quarter and every once in a while you'd hear "Oooh! I've found a new pocket of meat!"

For lamb I prefer a leg, butterflied. First I sliver pockets in the meat for cloves of garlic, then I marinate it in a mustard vinaigrette with whatever fresh herbs I can find, usually parsley and cilantro, and then some hotsauce. I smoke the leg for about 3 hours at around 175 degrees F and it comes out smokey and medium rare. Next time I smoke a leg of lamb I'll do everything the same except I'll put the bones back in the butterfly, that way I can smoke it longer and still have the roast be medium rare.

But sources aside, I've always found lamb to be juicier and less gamey than goat. Now if only I can find some place that'll sell me mutton . . .

[Suvir Saran]

Col Klink, thanks for the encouraging words and for sharing your Lamb/Goat interests.

Baby goat is really not very gamey. IN fact it is that reason that makes it work better for most Indian palates. We find lamb far more gamey.

Maybe if you can find a Pakistani family near you or a store run by someone from the Sub-Continent, you can then find their source for baby goat. You may find it fun playing with baby goat meat and seeing what you come up with. Your technique sounds wonderful.

What other dishes do you make with lamb? Is there a favorite Indian lamb dish you have from restaurants in Seattle?

[Suvir Saran]

Lamb Vindaloo

This was given to me by a Parsi friend. I have never made it but have it in my notes.

1 1/4 lbs. lamb cut into 1 inch cubes

4 tablespoon canola oil

3 medium vine grown tomatoes

2 medium red potatoes, peeled and cut into 1.5 inch cubes

2 medium red onion, sliced

1 cup frozen green peas

salt, to taste

Spice Paste:

1/2 tsp cumin seeds

2 tablespoons of vinegar

8 dry red chiles

1/2" cinnamon stick

6 garlic cloves

1" piece fresh ginger root

4 cloves

6 green cardamom pods

6 black peppercorns

1/2 tsp turmeric powder

1. Marinate lamb pieces with grounded spice paste and salt for at least 2 hours.

2. Heat oil and fry the mutton pieces for 10 minutes.

3. Add 5 cups water and bring to boil and cover and cook for 40 minutes. Stir occasionally.

4. Add the potatoes, onions, peas and tomatoes and cook till they are cooked through.

5. Cook uncovered for 5 minutes or until sauce looks glazed with fat. Serve hot.

[Suvir Saran]

Parsi Ghost Ni Curry

1 pound lamb, cut into 1 inch cubes

2 large red onions, sliced

4 medium-sized potatoes peeled and quartered

2 large tomatoes, chopped very finely

7 dry red chiles

8 curry leaves

1" piece fresh ginger root

8 garlic cloves

1/2 cup dessicated coconut

1/2 cup tamarind water (mix 1 tablespoon Tamco in 1/2 cup water)

1 tablespoon brown sugar

4 tablespoon canola

1 teaspoon salt or to taste

Spice Powder:

1 teaspoon coriander seeds

1/2 teaspoon cumin seeds

1 tablespoon Indian poppy seeds

1 tablespoon peanuts

1. Grind the ginger and garlic into a fine paste. Set aside

2. Heat the canola and fry onions until golden brown over a medium flame for about 15 minutes. Sprinkle a little water if the onions stick to the pan.

3. Add ginger and garlic paste and saute for another two minutes.

4. Add the ground masala fry for another 2 minutes.

5. Add the coconut and cook for another 2 minutes.

6. Add the lamb, potatoes and salt, and fry for another 2 minutes.

7. Add 4 cups of water to the pan and do it carefully to ensure that the sauce is well incorporated. Bring to a boil. Simmer stirring occasionally for an hour.

8. Mix in tamarind water, brown sugar and tomatoes. Cook for another 15 minutes uncovered over a low flame

9. Serve hot.

[Suvir Saran]

Toby,

You will find reference to Baby Goat on the link below. It was discussed in the Do you taste as you cook thread.

Baby Goat

[col klink]

I've done lamb steaks and other lamb roasts and I prefer it medium rare. For some reason, done roasted lamb doesn't do it for me.

As far as other lamb dishes in Seattle, my girlfriend Batgrrrl, made me a wonderful lamb curry and I have to say that that dish is easily my favorite lamb meal I've had that I didn't do myself. Of course it's completely different than when you're doing a roast. This was a typical braise with onions and her curry mix which I can't remember at the time. As it was her first time cooking for me, and in retrospect, it was clear she was trying to impress me.

I should mention that I already cooked for her, smoked chicken, bacon/garlic mashed potatos and steamed brocoli with balsamic vinegar and pepper.

[Suvir Saran]

Lamb Koirambha (Lamb Stew)

This is a basic southern Indian lamb stew. The spices are treated like they would be in southern cooking. The lamb is cut into small pieces and this makes the lamb take the flavors of the spices easily. The stew can be made thicker or thinner depending on your taste. It is traditionally eaten with plain rice and some pachadi (southern Indian raita). The coconut gives the otherwise spicy dish a sweet undertone. The urad daal (white gram beans) are used as a spice in this recipe. They are used both as a spice and as a thickener.

This recipe is a great success in my classes at NYU.

2 lbs. leg of lamb, all fat removed, cut into small pieces (1 inch cubes)

2 bay leaves

2 inch cinnamon stick

1-1/2 teaspoon urad daal (white gram beans)

2 teaspoon cumin seeds

1/2 teaspoon fenugreek seeds

2 teaspoon fennel seeds

12 fresh curry leaves (20 if using dried or frozen)

1 large onion, chopped finely

2 inch piece of fresh ginger, finely minced

1 large tomato, chopped

5 cloves garlic, minced finely or ground into paste

2 teaspoon cayenne pepper

1-1/2 teaspoon turmeric

2 teaspoon curry powder

1 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper powder

1 cup water

1 cup tomato sauce

1 teaspoon salt (or to taste)

1/2 cup cilantro leaves, chopped

1 teaspoon cumin seeds

1/2 teaspoon fennel seeds

2 teaspoon unsweetened coconut flakes

3 dried whole red chilies

4 tbsp canola

Wash and clean lamb thoroughly, make sure you remove all fat from the meat. Cut the lamb into small pieces.

Heat the oil in a heavy pan over low heat and fry the cinnamon, curry leaves and the bay leaves in it for a minute. Add the fennel, cumin and fenugreek seeds, the urad daal and fry till the daal turns a nice golden color. The daal will burn easily.

Add the chopped onions, ginger and garlic. Fry for a minute or two. When the garlic aroma is clear, add the chopped tomatoes and the turmeric powder. Cook until the onions are nice and tender.

Add the lamb pieces at this time and increase the flame to a medium. Stir fry the lamb till it turns a pink color, about 4-6 minutes.

Add the curry powder, cayenne pepper and the freshly ground black pepper. Stir well and make sure the meat is coated with all the spices and the sauce.

Add the salt, tomato sauce and mix again and cook for 3-4 minutes. Add water and bring to a boil.

Reduce the flame to low, cover and cook for about an hour. stirring regularly, until the meat is tender.

You may add more water as needed and to your liking. Add a few tablespoons at a time to control the consistency.

When the lamb is almost done, add the cilantro greens, and let the stew cook till the meat is tender and the sauce has thickened.

Garnish:

Grind the coconut, cumin seeds, fennel seeds, and the whole chilies in a mortar and pestle or a coffee grinder. Add this mix to the stew and bring the stew to a gentle boil. Or, you can fry these garnish spices in 2 tablespoons of ghee and simply pour onto the stew after you have poured it into a serving dish. This would be called a tadka.

[Suvir Saran]

Col Klink,

Your girlfriend and you seem a great match. Each winning the other with great food. There is not better way in my book.

Maybe you can ask her what her magical curry mix is. It would be a great treat for all of us to get her recipe. It seems like it was wonderful enough to impress you, and so must be good enough for all of us to try and replicate when entertaining.

[col klink]

Damn Suvir! I'm really upset!

All this time I've been thinking that my leg of lamb was the epitome and I go and read your lamb recipes. Right now I'm just too upset to do anything . . .

Oh wait, I can respond.

Yes, if it wasn't for our mutual love of food, my girlfriend and I (probably) wouldn't have lasted this long. It also happens that she's pretty damn good looking and intelligent.

Although we both really love food and talking about food, to this day I still can't believe she puts up with how much I talk about different recipes, methods of preparing meat and dining out. Let me put it this way, our Memorial day surrounded roasting a duck (I've only smoked a duck) with a rhubarb/maple sauce, an idea I came up with while reading (guess what) egullet. Yup, I like talking about food. Unfortunately my favorite meat shop was out of fresh duck. Luckily though we live in Seattle and we made a seafood with fresh scallops, mussels and clams that was just terrific.

As far as her curry mix goes, it's a commercial mix that isn't too rare. I'll make sure to get the name. However, we're going to the Canadian Okanogan for the rest of the week so I don't know when I can get back to you on that.

[oliva]

Suvir on the topic of cooking meat, I have a query about roasting/baking, I am sure you can help! This pertains to cooking techniques for leg of lamb.

For many Middle Eastern dishes and even Indian/Pakistani, the meat is required to be extremely tender, falling off the bone. For example, for a lamb tagine, many people use shoulder of lamb and cook it till it is as soft as butter. I was wondering if you had any tips on how to cook leg of lamb, (not butterflied) till it is so tender that it is (almost) falling off the bone. Some people say you need to add some water/stock and lots of oil to the roasting pan while it is cooking in the oven, (the oil can be skimmed off later. ) Another tip is apparently to cook it covered for 2-3 hours, in a dutch oven for example.

The reason I ask is because all recipes I have come across indicate cooking times according to medium rare, medium and well done. But no indication for for how to cook the leg of lamb till it melts like butter in your mouth!

I find that several of my friends from the Subcontinent like their meat this way, they don't care much for medium or medium rare meat at all infact. I also don't want to produce a leg of lamb that is well done and as tough as leather.

Lastly, once the lamb has been cooked till tender, would it be a good idea to put it under the broiler for a few minutes so that it takes on that golden burnt hue?

[Toby]

Oliva, your post reminded me of a Moroccan oven-roasted lamb I used to make called m'choui. The recipe called for a forequarter or saddle of lamb, but I always used a leg. You can pit-roast it or roast it in the oven (which is how I cooked it). You trim lamb, make shallow incisions, and then blend quite a lot of softened butter with about 4 cloves of finely chopped garlic, salt, powdered cumin, sweet paprika and cayenne. Rub this into the meat and let sit overnight. Then roast in 450 oven for 15-20 minutes, lower heat to 350 and roast, basting with the juices every 15 minutes, until lamb comes easily away from the bone with your fingers, about 2-1/2 to 3 hrs. I served it garnished with mint and cilantro, and with little bowls of sea salt, ground cumin and very hot cayenne to dip the lamb in. I like roast lamb rare and thought this would be really dry and overdone, but I liked the idea of dipping the meat into the cumin, salt and cayenne, so I tried it and it was delicious.

[anil]

Oliva, your post reminded me of a Moroccan oven-roasted lamb I used to make called m'choui.  The recipe called for a forequarter or saddle of lamb, but I always used a leg.  You can pit-roast it or roast it in the oven (which is how I cooked it). ........

Ah, meshwi - It is actually pit-roasted, more popular in the Berber communities. Similar preparations are known along the rst of N.Arfica, like Algeria, Egypt amongst others.

[Suvir Saran]

Oliva,

Most of my lamb dishes are butterflied and hence different from what you want.

But what I have done in the past is to marinade the lamb for 2-3 days in the spice rub and or yogurt mix.

When ready to cook, I bring the meat to room temperature by removing from refrigerator an hour before cooking.

I pour the meat and the marinade with some boiling water into a casserole that is oven proof. Over medium heat I bring the contents of the pan to a boil. I then cover the casserole with foil and bake in the oven. I usually will bake at 350?F for around an hour and a half. I lower the heat in the oven ( 230?F) and cook for another 40 minutes. I leave the meat sitting in the oven for another 45 minutes. At this point the meat is usually perfectly cooked and ready to be served.

If you like the meat more browned, you can broil it in the oven after basting it with some melted butter for 5 minutes or to the color you like. If you do not want to use extra fat, you can use the contents of the casserole to baste the meat.

I usually make a little extra marinade, and thus end up with a little extra liquid in the casserole. I thicken this liquid separately and serve with the roast.

Another thing I have done is to fry the meat in very hot ghee or butter and then add enough water to cover it and then cook it for 30 minutes or so. I add lots of whole spices to the water and also some yogurt. I then marinade the drained meat and add some butter in the marinade and then bake the meat in the oven. Another way I play with the roasts to ensure they are moist and yet falling off the bone the way our people love it.

Vivin, is there a special family trick you know??? Anil, how do you make your roast lamb dishes?? Sandra??

[polly]

I recently had a beautiful melt in the mouth lamb dish at a friends house.

The recipe is in Nigella Lawson's ( not 'how to cook' or the 'domestic godess' one, but the one in between) book.

Shoulder of lamb, browned then covered with foil and baked on low heat for 14! hours.

Meat is then shredded and made into a warm salad with mint leaves and pomegranite seeds.

It's really easy and one of those dishes that tastes better than you would think from just reading the recipe.

Not at all indian, but I thought I'd throw it in 'cause the meat really does come out 'melt in the mouth'.

[oliva]

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.

On the topic of cooking lamb what are everyone's favourite marinades? Are they more Subcontinental influenced or more Middle Eastern?

[Toby]

Oliva, I just got a new cookbook called Mediterranean Street Food by Anissa Helou that has a recipe for the long-cooked lamb (mechoui) I'd posted about. In the notes she mentions an Anatolian version where the lamb is cut up into large roasts and baked all night in a slow-burning wood-fired oven. The lamb is served with pide bread and ayran (sheep or goat milk yogurt combined with equal amount chilled water and salt to taste in a blender and blended until frothy).

[Suvir Saran]

Toby,

I got the same book Thursday... it seems wonderful... yet to read it in detail... It seems wonderful.

[Toby]

Yes, I've been reading it. A lot of information about parts of the Mediterranean that haven't been covered much. Some of the receipes have interesting slants on familiar foods; others are completely new to me. (Strand bookstore had a few copies in the basement half price.)

[Sandra Levine]

Sandra??

I've never made lamb in an Indian manner, but this thread is inspiring.

[Suvir Saran]

Sandra,

Do you have a favorite lamb dish from Indian restaurants?? What is it?

Maybe at the forum here we can try and get you that recipe.... Or else we can give your own home recipes...

[Sandra Levine]

I used to love the lamb dishes in creamy, nutty sauce -- korma, pasanda. roghan josh -- but I consider these, alas, too rich for me to eat until I lose those 30 pounds I keep talking about. Lamb is my favorite red meat, but for the time being, it will have to be plain grilled chops. Hmmm. A dry rub with an interesting masala would be nice. I swear, I am going to cook something this week. I mean it.