A Voce: Andrew Carmellini goes Italian

[Jeffo]

Those of you who have dined at A Voce -- is it suitable for solo dining? Thanks.

[rozrapp]

Those of you who have dined at A Voce -- is it suitable for solo dining? Thanks.

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Yes. If you prefer, you can eat at the bar.

[Sneakeater]

I know people have said this before, but except for the major limited-seating blowout places like ADNY and Per Se (and maybe some of the fancy old-line places that still exist), I can't think of anywhere in New York I don't think is suitable for solo dining. I would say that, at the very least, suitability ought to be your default assumption.

General discussion of dining solo in restaurants: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=87532

Edited May 11, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Pan]

And then there's the Table for One/dining alone in New York thread.

[Bond Girl]

Those of you who have dined at A Voce -- is it suitable for solo dining? Thanks.

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I was talking to Andrew Carmellini about that as well....as I would be dining alone if I do return to A Voce, he said there would be no problems at all if I eat alone. In fact, in a few weeks, A Voce will have outdoor seating, and on a nice summer evening, it would be the most perfect place to eat alone and people watch or hang out with my dog on the sidewalk.

[gaf]

Blame it on Bruni New York City Entry #93 A Voce

A few weeks back we reserved a table for a Tuesday night at A Voce, Andrew Carmellini's sleek new Italian restaurant on Madison Park. We imagined a quiet evening at a restaurant that was gaining its bearings. Reservations were easily had, even if A Voce coolly required that diners (at least for our party of five) sign a contract, not just provide a credit card number. One must return a reservations form, scrawled in blood. What has happened to the gossamer trust between diner and restauranteur? When questioned, the reservationist asserted that ninety percent of New York restaurants have the same requirement. As a student of Italian geography, I can only respond "Bologna."

By the time our evening arrived, Frank Bruni had just revealed his quixotic three-star musings in the Times and the restaurant was overwhelmed. Perhaps a restaurant whose name translates as "word of mouth" expected a slowly gathering fame, not the shock of anointment.

In truth, the kitchen fared better than the floor. Service was as disorganized and as thoughtless as any I have experienced. A hostess neglected to provide claim checks. Our server attempted to push a $100 bottle of wine as a first choice without asking about our price preference. Appetizers and pasta were served simultaneously, leaving no room on the table (was this a hint to eat quickly? - perhaps, but we were ignored for long stretches). Both our shared dessert and shared contorno were served without separate plates. As a fellow klutz, I give a pass to the dropped salad. But if this night is an indication, this staff is not ready for prime time. One wonders if tranquility rules a week ago. The receipt of three stars by an affordable restaurant generates what in polite circles might be termed a feeding frenzy. With sixty-somethings holding court at the tables and thirty-somethings surrounding the bar, A Voce was juggling a generational divide, two clienteles in a single space.

Much has been made that A Voce does not look "Italian." One can not guess the cuisine from the decor, but the comfort and polish of the space - Eames swivel chairs, leather table tops, and a beautiful sculptural with orange back-lighting - provides a theatrical flair. If the cuisine shies away from slickness, it does not attempt Arthur Avenue authenticity. This is a chef's cuisine, not a nation's. A Voce has a culinary style, marrying hardy provincialism and the elegance of Café Boulud, Chef Carmellini's former employer. If the dishes do not always reach the happy rococo imaginings of Mr. Bruni, this was a most satisfying evening in culinary terms.

Our table began with a trio of appetizers. Order the Grilled Asparagus Parmigiana, served with Fried Farm Egg, Duck Bresaola (a dry-cured duck breast, borrowed from Babbo's bag of tricks), and white truffles. May is asparagus's moment. Despite the extravagance of the ingredients the dish was substantial, not fussy. The egg, cooked so it wiggled, combined eagerly with the grilled spears of spring. This plate was the star of the evening.

The Duck Meatballs with Dried Cherry Mostarda (a mustard-based fruit glaze) provided a pleasant interlude. After five months in Uppsala, I am well-trained in Swedish meatballs and lingonberries, and this enjoyable taste didn't much surpass what I had been frequently served at lunch mess, but the mustard provided a kick. The duck wasn't much superior to well-ground beef, even if the meat was lighter and more complex in its gaminess.

Roasted Beet Salad with Hazelnuts, Gorgonzola Dolce, and Barolo Vinegar completed the starters. The beets were stellar, although the salad itself was a simple high-end beet salad, a rendition not so different from my own preparations.

We ordered two pasta dishes (the ones that mysteriously appeared with our appetizers). The better of the two was Homemade Pappardelle with Lamb Bolognese, Mint, and Sheep's Ricotta. The pasta was dense and rich, another dish removed from the stove at its moment of glory; the Ricotta was admirable as well. Chef Carmellini could have been more generous with his mint, a choice that would have provided an exotic flair.

Potato Gnocchi with Spring Peas and Prosciutto was composed of tiny pearls of spud and peas, lovely in its presentation. The taste was straightforward - gnocchi, ham, and peas in a cream sauce. No complaints, but not much memory.

Steamed Black Sea Bass with Shrimp Polpettini (petite shrimp balls), New Potatoes and Basil-Shellfish Broth was nearly seafood soup with the unadvertised but welcome addition of cockles and mussels. This was another precisely timed dish, and was most notable for its sublime herbal broth. The polpettini and potatoes didn't add much to the dish, but perhaps a potage of bass, bivalves, and broth might have seemed thin gruel to others; I would have been entranced.

As a side dish we ordered Funghi Trifolati: Spring Mushrooms with Garlic and Herbs, sauteed in Olive Oil (prepared in the truffle style). Chef Carmellini combined three mushroom species (Blewits, Trumpets, and Hen of the Woods, each available to dedicated ‘shroomers). (Our server assured us that morels were not included in this spring mix because of their prohibitive cost, but Blewits, autumn funghi, are rarer in the May wilds than morels). To say that I can cook up a mess of mushrooms equal in clarity is not to deny my dusky enjoyment.

Pastry Chef April Robinson's dessert list disappointed. The night we dined, most desserts (excepting the sorbet and a panna cotta) were made with chocolate or coffee, a caffeinated bias. The Vanilla-Yogurt Panna Cotta with Saba Vinegar (a sweet, thick vinegar, akin to balsamic) and Raspberries was passably smooth, but, even with the vinegar, was rather bland.

Italian cuisine rarely reveals the subtlety of the French. The robustness that diners cherish also poses a barrier to transcendence. And so Chef Carmellini suffers for his cuisine. As much as I enjoyed dinner, A Voce is not evocative in the way that Café Boulud is, but perhaps this is a company that Chef Carmellini prefers not to keep.

And, on this warm spring evening, A Voce crashed from the curse of the sated critic. The crush of humanity that resulted cracked service. Signore Bruni has recently passed time as a server; perhaps he could have shown penance for his good deed by lending an ink-stained hand.

A Voce

41 Madison Avenue (at 26th Street)

Manhattan (Flatiron)

212-545-8555

My Webpage: Vealcheeks

[Todd36]

Had dinner there last night as a walk-in (at 9:45). Service was good; they graciously wrapped excess pasta. The tables are a little small for the size of some of the plates.

1. They heated the bread, which I think didn't do the bread any favors, it got wet.

2. Mixed Antipasti was very good---only issue was that they could have been more generous with the toast.

3. The duck meatballs were very good. As good as any meatballs I've had outside of home.

4. Duck angoloti was really good----only issue was that it's heavy.

5. Lamb Papardelle was very good----only issue was that it's heavy.

6. Side of mixed mushrooms---very good.

7. Bottle of cheap Burgendy, $35. A little thin, but perfectly drinkable. The wine list starts at the high twenties per bottle, which I find quite nice in a restaurant of this caliber.

8. Dessert was the sorbet, which was good.

Overall, it was very good, and we felt like three NYT stars was appropiate. With tax and tip, total bill was approx $170, which we didn't feel was unreasonable.

[Sneakeater]

I had dinner here last night as a walk-in (at about 7:15 or so), alone at the bar (hear that, jeffo?).

Started with the asparagus/egg/duck braseola/parmigiana/salad with truffled dressing appetizer. A very good variation on a favorite dish: the salty smoked duck works very well in this.

Potato gnocchi with lamb bolognese/ricotta/mint. Very good. Maybe they read eG, cuz there was certainly enough mint.

Pork tenderloin with [i forgot what it was with]. Too often, pork is presented as tasteless bits of white protien. This tasted like PORK. Very good. In fact, the pork was perfectly prepared: moist, almost fork-tender. The technical skills of this kitchen are extremely impressive.

I enjoyed all this food very much. But I keep thinking that this restaurant is "merely" a very high-functioning version of a neighborhood Italian place. I think that gaf nailed it with his paragraph about the robustness of Italian cuisine being a barrier to transcendence. (Altough sometimes it can be transcendent in its robust simplicity. The problem with the kind of somewhat fancified Italian they serve at places like this is that it doesn't have the soulful punch of really simple, robust Italian cooking but on the other hand can't reach the refined heights of French cuisine.) It wouldn't bother me, of course, if I didn't remember Carmellini's Cafe Boloud days with such pleasure. Still, a delicious meal.

Edited June 27, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[johnder]

I am heading to A Voce tonight for dinner and looking forward to it. I had that chance to try Andrew's food at the Autumn Harvest dinner at 11 Madison in October and it was pretty amazing.

I am trying to go into the meal tonight with an open mind, but unfortunately everyone I know that has eaten there personally has said the same thing: Food amazing, service hit or miss.

I will report back later tonight with photos and let everyone know how it went.

John

[Sneakeater]

Coincidentally, I ate at the bar there last night. Food was excellent. But even there service was sketchy. (But they comped me a grappa, so I don't care.)

Edited November 14, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[johnder]

Coincidentally, I ate at the bar there last night.  Food was excellent.  But even there service was sketchy.  (But they comped me a grappa, so I don't care.)

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Uh oh, that's not a good sign. It is usually pretty hard to get iffy service when eating at a bar, given the close proximity of the staff.

[Sneakeater]

I enjoyed all this food very much.  But I keep thinking that this restaurant is "merely" a very high-functioning version of a neighborhood Italian place.  I think that gaf nailed it with his paragraph about the robustness of Italian cuisine being a barrier to transcendence.  (Altough sometimes it can be transcendent in its robust simplicity.  The problem with the kind of somewhat fancified Italian they serve at places like this is that it doesn't have the soulful punch of really simple, robust Italian cooking but on the other hand can't reach the refined heights of French cuisine.)  It wouldn't bother me, of course, if I didn't remember Carmellini's Cafe Boloud days with such pleasure.  Still, a delicious meal.

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I dropped into A Voce last night, having eaten the night before in a Brooklyn neighborhood place that I found somewhat comparable, Jason Neroni's Porchetta.

I liked Porchetta lot (for what it is). But eating at the two places in succession showed just how "high-functioning" A Voce is. You pay twice as much at A Voce. But in return you get a level of cooking and ingredients that are beyond what you can expect from even one of the best neighborhood kitchens. A Voce deserves its place on the list of the better New York restaurants.

[Sneakeater]

Coincidentally, I ate at the bar there last night.  Food was excellent.  But even there service was sketchy.  (But they comped me a grappa, so I don't care.)

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Uh oh, that's not a good sign. It is usually pretty hard to get iffy service when eating at a bar, given the close proximity of the staff.

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Here were the two problems (neither of which might be a problem for you):

1. Sitting next to me at the bar was this obvious high roller (and his girlfriend). He'd apparently been in the night before and ordered the truffle menu (which doesn't even have a price on the menu card). So at least at first, he was absorbing all of everybody's attention there, and I found it hard to even get my order taken.

2. The kitchen was a little slow. You wouldn't even notice that if, say, you're sitting at a table with your famously Incredibly Lovely Wife. But eating alone at the bar, you do notice that.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Fat Guy]

I was blown away by just about every dish we had at A Voce tonight. It was the best Italian meal I've had in New York City -- better than my best meal at any Mario Batali or Scott Conant restaurant, or San Domenico or Felidia, or anyplace else. For pure joy of eating, Andrew Carmellini has raised the bar.

The Sardinian sheep's milk ricotta, served with toasted, garlicky bread is one of the best ways imaginable to start a meal. Order it the second your server approaches, before you even think about cocktails, menus, etc.

One of the things that struck me about A Voce's menu was that I wanted to eat every single thing on it. True, I'm more of an omnivore than most, but I can't remember the last time I read such an appealing menu. Usually, I look at a menu and immediately dismiss the majority of the dishes as wastes of my time. There wasn't a single thing on the A Voce menu that seemed like a waste. Not even close.

Another excellent appetizer item was a wooden board of salumi, called "Paul's Salumi" on the menu. Perhaps the Paul refers to Paul Bertolli, perhaps not, but it was certainly on that rarefied level.

Cubes of local yellowfin tuna, marinated in olive oil with Sicilian oranges, fennel and oregano was another star.

The best appetizer, the best dish of the night, and one of the best restaurant dishes you're going to find anywhere (better even than the Momofuku version of the same dish) is the "asparagus parmigiana." It comes as several spears of superb asparagus topped with a runny fried egg and a truffle dressing. Along with that are big chunks -- I mean big like 3/4" cubes -- of pancetta "affumicata" (aka smoked) and a few slivers of cheese. Serious umami. Requires bread to get every drop.

The duck meatballs are delicious, as everybody says they are, but I think every other appetizer we had deserves to be the signature appetizer more than the duck meatballs do.

Pastas, we tried the gnocchi with a reappearance of the sheep's milk ricotta, plus lamb ragu. Small, light gnocchi and a sauce that would have been excellent even without the dollop of ricotta, but which was raised to a higher level by that excellent ingredient (the stellar ricotta also makes an appearance on the dessert menu, in its ice cream phase, as an accompaniment to a blueberry-topped olive-oil cake). Also, and forgive me for not being able to keep my technical pasta names straight, we had, uh, pasta with rock shrimp and zucchini, and a special of, well, pasta with rabbit sausage (from the market specials list). Both great.

For secondi, country-style Tuscan tripe, with borlotti beans, tomato and a fried duck egg is a dish you just have to try if you like tripe, and have to try even more if you think you don't. (The only way to improve the asparagus dish would be to make it with a duck egg instead of a chicken egg). Also wonderful diver scallops (I've noticed this year that the diver scallops the better restaurants have been getting are bigger and better than I ever remember) served with a pesto that I believe our server said was made from broccoli rabe. And, from the market specials, black cod (sable, whatever) with a sweet pepper glaze -- oily, flaky, just as black cod is at its best.

We had very strong service. Our server, when invited to do so, made a number of enthusiastic recommendations, and she really took responsibility, following up and seeming interested in discussing our reactions to everything from the cocktails (surprisingly well-conceived and -made) to the desserts (quite good, though not at the level of the savory food).

A word about Cafe Boulud. On the one hand, it was a terrific restaurant under the Carmellini regime (better than Daniel, certainly, if you knew how to order); on the other hand, there are plenty of excellent restaurants in Cafe Boulud's category. It's not as though Cafe Boulud ever really delivered on the promise of being a casual cafe; it's a fancy restaurant in a crummy space with hit-or-miss service and a depressing crowd. So, I really don't miss having Andrew Carmellini at Cafe Boulud. I can go to any number of other restaurants (more comfortable, with better service) and get a meal like that. A Voce, on the other hand, is serving Italian food at a refreshingly high level. It really contributes something to the New York dining scene. I'm also not sure I agree that Cafe Boulud under Carmellini was a better restaurant than A Voce. My two or three best meals at Cafe Boulud were more complex than the meal I had tonight, but not necessarily better. The purity of flavors, the gregariousness, the spectacular ingredients, the balance of A Voce's dishes count for more in my book than the often uptight engineering of Cafe Boulud. I'm as dedicated to French-influenced haute cuisine as anyone, but I lean towards the A Voce camp on the comparison. I also wonder if there might be a way to order at a higher level at A Voce. I was trying to work through the menu, but I wonder what happens if you ask Andrew to cook for you . . . .

The new outdoor seating area (we didn't sit there, instead opting for a table right on the other side of the glass, with air conditioning) is great. It's on the side street, not Madison Avenue, and is well protected from pedestrians by a wall of potted lemon trees. Inside and out, A Voce is a comfortable, stylish place.

[Nathan]

hmmm....I wonder if you really need summer ingredients for that kitchen to show its stuff...

my meal there this winter was.....ok....well, good...but not in the same orbit as Babbo.

[juuceman]

The Sardinian sheep's milk ricotta, served with toasted, garlicky bread is one of the best ways imaginable to start a meal. Order it the second your server approaches, before you even think about cocktails, menus, etc.

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we ate here on Saturday night, and took your advice, ordering the ricotta as the menus were dropped off, along with two glasses of champagne.. we checked out the menu for a little while, then ordered a special salad with figs as well as the shrimp ravioli to begin, followed by the the black cod and the gnocci with lamb ragu..

they forgot the ricotta.. completely..

the food was great, the service for the rest of the night was pretty good as well..

[Fat Guy]

You were robbed!

The Champagne-by-the-glass prices are outrageous, by the way.

[weinoo]

they forgot the ricotta..  completely..

the food was great, the service for the rest of the night was pretty good as well..

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Please help me understand this. When the champagne was delivered, did you ask where the bread and cheese were? Did you ask to speak to your waiter or the maitre-d? When you ordered your dinner, did you mention that you were wanted the cheese before your appetizers? What the fu...

This is the kind of stuff in medium to high priced places that drives me crazy!!

[juuceman]

they forgot the ricotta..  completely..

the food was great, the service for the rest of the night was pretty good as well..

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Please help me understand this. When the champagne was delivered, did you ask where the bread and cheese were? Did you ask to speak to your waiter or the maitre-d? When you ordered your dinner, did you mention that you were wanted the cheese before your appetizers? What the fu...

This is the kind of stuff in medium to high priced places that drives me crazy!!

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We were seated.

Waiter came by and asked what kind of water we wanted, and whether we wanted a cocktail or a glass of champagne. Brief discussion, we asked for champagne. I inquired what they had and he gave me the list, indicating that the Henriot, for $23 a glass, was the better choice. There might have been another at a pretty similar price, within a dollar. I inquired whether they had the ricotta and he said that they did, it was wonderful, so we ordered it to start and he said he would bring it right out.

Drinks were delivered, as were menus. Waiter disappeared. He returned to answer any questions and take our order. Waiter disappeared.

Sommeiler showed up, we chatted about wines from Southern Italy, I let him know I was interested in something like a Nero D'Avolo or perhaps a Frappato, and indicated price range ~$50 - $60, of which there was a huge range on the menu, probably in excess of 100 bottles. He hems and haws a bit, so I ask him what he's drinking, it being summer and all. I'm immediately upsold to a $170 Super Tuscan. He swears that it's what he drinks at the end of the night. We chat a bit more and settle on another Super Tuscan, in the range of $120. He returned with it almost immediately, poured, and disappeared.

Appetizers were brought over somewhat quickly by people other than the waiter. Waiter returned after we had finished appetizers and I informed him that the ricotta had not appeared. He thanked me for letting him know and disappeared.

He was slightly more attentive for the remainder of the meal, and they comped us an espresso at the end.

We were celebrating my girlfriend's birthday, i indicated this on the opentable reservation request, and they brought out dessert with Happy Birthday written on the plate and a candle. Nice and low key, I appreciated it.

[weinoo]

they forgot the ricotta..  completely..

the food was great, the service for the rest of the night was pretty good as well..

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Please help me understand this. When the champagne was delivered, did you ask where the bread and cheese were? Did you ask to speak to your waiter or the maitre-d? When you ordered your dinner, did you mention that you were wanted the cheese before your appetizers? What the fu...

This is the kind of stuff in medium to high priced places that drives me crazy!!

←

We were seated.

Waiter came by and asked what kind of water we wanted, and whether we wanted a cocktail or a glass of champagne. Brief discussion, we asked for champagne. I inquired what they had and he gave me the list, indicating that the Henriot, for $23 a glass, was the better choice. There might have been another at a pretty similar price, within a dollar. I inquired whether they had the ricotta and he said that they did, it was wonderful, so we ordered it to start and he said he would bring it right out.

Drinks were delivered, as were menus. Waiter disappeared. He returned to answer any questions and take our order. Waiter disappeared.

Sommeiler showed up, we chatted about wines from Southern Italy, I let him know I was interested in something like a Nero D'Avolo or perhaps a Frappato, and indicated price range ~$50 - $60, of which there was a huge range on the menu, probably in excess of 100 bottles. He hems and haws a bit, so I ask him what he's drinking, it being summer and all. I'm immediately upsold to a $170 Super Tuscan. He swears that it's what he drinks at the end of the night. We chat a bit more and settle on another Super Tuscan, in the range of $120. He returned with it almost immediately, poured, and disappeared.

Appetizers were brought over somewhat quickly by people other than the waiter. Waiter returned after we had finished appetizers and I informed him that the ricotta had not appeared. He thanked me for letting him know and disappeared.

He was slightly more attentive for the remainder of the meal, and they comped us an espresso at the end.

We were celebrating my girlfriend's birthday, i indicated this on the opentable reservation request, and they brought out dessert with Happy Birthday written on the plate and a candle. Nice and low key, I appreciated it.

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Well, your waiter was a mutt and the whole upselling thing really reeks!!

I might've said, when the waiter brought the drinks, can you bring the RICOTTA now, please? Before we order?

And the sommelier should be shot - to not be able to find you a wine, in your price range, when there were lots and lots of bottles within your price range, just sucks. I'm sure his boss would be happy to know that he's drinking the $170 super-Tuscans at the end of his shift.

Glad you had a decent time though, and the dessert was a nice touch...

Who owns this place?

[Fat Guy]

That's an unconscionable upsell under most circumstances, but I think here it may have been invited by the customer. Though I wasn't thrilled with the beverage program pricing, especially the Champagne, we experienced good behavior. We were at about $40 and got upsold to about $55, which I think is fine especially since he presented several options in the $40-$60 range. I liked the guy.

I believe A Voce is owned by some British restaurant group -- at least that's what I think I remember hearing when the project was in its early stages. I'll have to check.

[weinoo]

Well, a $50- $60 upsell to $170, and then having the customer settle for $120 - sheesh!!

I didn't quite get how you might think it was invited by the customer...but it's still only a part of the problem that juiceman experienced.

The question is, whose experience was the norm - yours or juiceman's?

[Fat Guy]

I didn't quite get  how you might think it was invited by the customer...

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Because:

Sommeiler showed up, we chatted about wines from Southern Italy, I let him know I was interested in something like a Nero D'Avolo or perhaps a Frappato, and indicated price range ~$50 - $60, of which there was a huge range on the menu, probably in excess of 100 bottles. He hems and haws a bit, so I ask him what he's drinking, it being summer and all. I'm immediately upsold to a $170 Super Tuscan.

In that dialog, the customer arguably made the invitation to go off program.

[juuceman]

I didn't quite get  how you might think it was invited by the customer...

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Because:

Sommeiler showed up, we chatted about wines from Southern Italy, I let him know I was interested in something like a Nero D'Avolo or perhaps a Frappato, and indicated price range ~$50 - $60, of which there was a huge range on the menu, probably in excess of 100 bottles. He hems and haws a bit, so I ask him what he's drinking, it being summer and all. I'm immediately upsold to a $170 Super Tuscan.

In that dialog, the customer arguably made the invitation to go off program.

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No way. I ask this question all the time. The sommelier is always all too happy to show off his wine list and discuss why the (usually) $40 - $80 bottle of wine is the perfect thing to drink given the season, the food that the restaurant is serving, or whatever it is because it just works. There's very little to be proud of for having a 2004 Super Tuscan on your wine list - it's too easy, like serving fois gras and truffles when someone asks what you eat at the end of a shift. While I do feel that he upsold, I'm more disappointed - I gave the sommelier a chance to shine and introduce me to something new and/or different, and he didn't. From our conversation, there was no question that that's what I was looking for.

[juuceman]

Well, your waiter was a mutt and the whole upselling thing really reeks!!

I might've said, when the waiter brought the drinks, can you bring the RICOTTA now, please?  Before we order?

And the sommelier should be shot - to not be able to find you a wine, in your price range, when there were lots and lots of bottles within your price range, just sucks.  I'm sure his boss would be happy to know that he's drinking the $170 super-Tuscans at the end of his shift.

Glad you had a decent time though, and the dessert was a nice touch...

Who owns this place?

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After the service disasters at our meal the night before at Barbounia for my mother's birthday, I needed to relax and enjoy myself. I did. It cost me a bit more in the end, but I didn't complain. Nor did the ricotta (or lack thereof) ruin the meal for me. It was a minor annoyance, but one that passed. It seems that with all of the raves about service that this place got when it opened, they should have performed higher.

I will say that the food is among some of the best that I've eaten in a while in Manhattan. The menu is a bit odd, there are multiple pastas with meat sauce, and a $23 dish of meat ravioli in red sauce, but the pastas are at or above the level of the pastas at Lupa, long my standard for very good pasta.