Warm foams

[Mussina]

I've successfully made numerous cold foams but never a warm one. How does this work? I would like to make a porcini foam to serve alongside a mushroom risotto. Thanks!!!!

[ASM NY]

It's actually very simple. You prepare the foam in the same way you would prepare the cold foam, just stick it in a warm water bath until right before serving. Do not expose the canister to a direct flame.

[Taubear]

It's actually very simple. You prepare the foam in the same way you would prepare the cold foam, just stick it in a warm water bath until right before serving. Do not expose the canister to a direct flame.

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May I ask how one makes a cold foam??

[cricklewood]

Well i'm no foam expert and i'm sure you can find many threads on here about it, but the easiest way is with an ISI or other brand canister used for whipping cream(like at starbucks), instead you use gelatin for things that don't have enough fat in them and you then pressurise the canister and voila you have foam, ok it's a bit more involved but that's the idea, you can check out the ISI site for ideas. http://www.isinorthamerica.com/. Otherwise one could use things like lecithin or other soy proteins to foam.

[philadining]

It also depends on how dramatic and stable the foam needs to be. Simply steeping a flavoring element in milk, and then airing that up with a immersion stick blender, or a cappuccino frother, can get you some nice foam which you can simply skim off and spoon onto or beside your risotto. That's not going to last as long, or have the same mouthfeel as something given some backbone with lecithin, etc, but it'll last several minutes, which is plenty if you're going to plate it - serve it - eat it, immediately. Works on a cappuccino...

[ASM NY]

It also depends on how dramatic and stable the foam needs to be. Simply steeping a flavoring element in milk, and then airing that up with a immersion stick blender, or a cappuccino frother, can get you some nice foam which you can simply skim off and spoon onto or beside your risotto. That's not going to last as long, or have the same mouthfeel as something given some backbone with lecithin, etc, but it'll last several minutes, which is plenty if you're going to plate it -  serve it - eat it, immediately.  Works on a cappuccino...

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That's right, which is the reason less restaurants are serving foam, and more are serving "air". But you gotta be very quick, it doesn't last long.

[BryanZ]

Otherwise one could use things like lecithin or other soy proteins to foam.

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It's my understanding that you use lecithin in a carbon dioxide foam chamber to help stabilize the foam. The lecithin allows less viscous items to foam.

Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[alexw]

Interesting comments here.

easiest warm foams are as philadining says, steeping or blending flavours into milk is the best bet. as long as the milk doesn't exceed 80C then your foam should be quite stable, just check how long your foam holds out on a capuccino. boil it though and all the natural lecithin in it breaks down and the bubble surfaces just won't hold.

Taubear, there are so many ways to make a cold foam, my basic favourite is to flavour a simple water based liquid and blend in powdered lecithin, the lower the pH number the more stable and volumatic the foam, as for airs, from what I can gather it is the blender that is most important here and the space blended in so that larger bubbles can be formed, also your recipes need to be more exact with airs as the larger the bubble the more prone to bursting it is.

Bryan, you can make foams with NO2 chambers (a la Ferran Adria the Daddy of the foam), generally you will find recipes using the canisters stabilize the foams with anything but lecithin, I don't know why this is, but gelatin and pectin are good for increasing the viscous surface of the bubbles, and these foams turn out very firm and long lasting even if extruding a bit violently.

if you haven't used one before, make sure you have enough cleaning materials to hand the first time you press that button, cos I promise it will get everywhere, a favourite trick on inquisitive commis.

Only problem I find is that you can achieve volatile natural flavours using foams and i struggle to not foam everything when designing my menus, just written my summer menu and managed to keep the foam count down to 2 in savoury and 2 in pastry, my lowest for a while.

Alex.

[Mussina]

Great feedback. I have done my cold foams with an ISI canister and I am not a real fan of the heavy cream foams. Would anyone be willing to share a recipe for a lecithin foam?

[alexw]

Easiest one I know and produces great results every time

500mls lemon juice, 10 sprigs thyme, salt, sugar, lecithin

simmer lemon & thyme for 5 mins, pass and allow to cool.

pinch of salt, pinch of sugar to taste (needs to taste sharp)

2-3gm Lecithin, add to the liquid and blend.

when you do it I find that if you can use a longish container where the liquid can come about 1/2 way up the container. wrap very well (at least 3 times around) with cling film, and cut a small hole at one end no more than a 1/3 of the way along the container, but big enough to get your hand blender into.

blend quickly and allow foam to settle for 1-2 minutes, spoon the foam off the surface sparingly on to freshly fried fish. if you need more just re-blend we use 1/2 litre per day for 150-200 covers.

We use this on a scallop tart dish with creamed leeks, wild mushrooms and caramelised scallop

the base minus the lecithin can be made ages in advance with no problems, add lecithin the day you want to use it, you may need to adjust seasoning.

blooming strong but very effective.

Alex.

Edited March 8, 2006 by alexw (log)

[alexw]

Great feedback.  I have done my cold foams with an ISI canister and I am not a real fan of the heavy cream foams.  Would anyone be willing to share a recipe for a lecithin foam?

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have you tried just a plain water based recipe with some pectin boiled through it out of a canister, we sometimes do this then squirt into a container and quenelle the foam onto the required dish. still acts heavy but tastes quite light if you omit dairy from the recipe.

[ExpatC]

I hope I don't sound completely out of it here. I have resisted foams for a long time but I recently had an idea and I want to make a pineapple-chili foam for fish. I don't wnt the flavors to beat up on the flavor of the fish so a foam might just make all the difference.

my question here is this. I have bought the canisters and whipits, so to speak, but I would like to read a good solid study of the technique. Is there a thread here that covers this or is there a site that might cover the basics pretty well that anyone could recommend?

[ScottyBoy]

Anyone tried an already carbonated liquid in a canister? Maybe to dissolve the gelatin in another liquid, add maybe cider and charge?

Edited September 2, 2010 by ScottyBoy (log)

[A Patric]

I'm looking for something very specific. I'd like to do a water-based warm foam with a N2O canister that has no added fat/cream/milk, etc. I want the foam to set up and be relatively stable.

My idea is to make a beef broth foam or something similar that can be injected into something like a popover.

I have tried all kinds of experimentation with agar using plain water, and I can get it to foam, but it doesn't hold at all, no matter how strong I make the solution.

Any ideas?

Thank you!

[Kerry Beal]

I'm looking for something very specific. I'd like to do a water-based warm foam with a N2O canister that has no added fat/cream/milk, etc. I want the foam to set up and be relatively stable.

My idea is to make a beef broth foam or something similar that can be injected into something like a popover.

I have tried all kinds of experimentation with agar using plain water, and I can get it to foam, but it doesn't hold at all, no matter how strong I make the solution.

Any ideas?

Thank you!

Alan,

Have you taken a cruise through the Khymos collection.

[Broken English]

I'm looking for something very specific. I'd like to do a water-based warm foam with a N2O canister that has no added fat/cream/milk, etc. I want the foam to set up and be relatively stable.

My idea is to make a beef broth foam or something similar that can be injected into something like a popover.

I have tried all kinds of experimentation with agar using plain water, and I can get it to foam, but it doesn't hold at all, no matter how strong I make the solution.

Any ideas?

Thank you!

Have you tried thickening the liquid with Xanthan to help it hold while it sets?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Broken English (log)

[Msk]

I would try using Agar-Agar. Typically Agar is used for "Warm Gelatins"

First create a version your sauce using Agar

(dissolve it in while boiling)(.5% to 3% range of your sauce weight-as per Khymos, the higher % the firmer the gel)

Let it cool and set

Shear in a blender to create a Fluid Gel

Load that gel into isi and keep warm but below the melting temp of Agar (85C/185F)

[A Patric]

Have you taken a cruise through the Khymos collection.

Hi Kerry,

Indeed I have. This is what gave me the idea for using the agar.

I can't claim that I've read every word of it, but I haven't found anything that sounds exactly what I'm trying to do.

Best,

Alan

[A Patric]

Have you tried thickening the liquid with Xanthan to help it hold while it sets?

I haven't tried Xanthan, as I don't have any. It looked the most promising out of the possibilities beyond agar, so I was kind of hoping to hear from someone that it would definitely work before purchasing some. In the Khymos guide, I don't think that any of the Xanthan recipes use an N2O canister.

Have you tried this, or has anyone else?

Best,

Alan

[A Patric]

I would try using Agar-Agar. Typically Agar is used for "Warm Gelatins"

First create a version your sauce using Agar

(dissolve it in while boiling)(.5% to 3% range of your sauce weight-as per Khymos, the higher % the firmer the gel)

Let it cool and set

Shear in a blender to create a Fluid Gel

Load that gel into isi and keep warm but below the melting temp of Agar (85C/185F)

Hi MSK,

I have tried this exact method using many different proportions of agar to water. Even when the gel is extremely firm, it doesn't seem to be working for me. It will certainly foam, but it won't hold for more than a couple of seconds.

Best,

Alan

[Kerry Beal]

Have you tried thickening the liquid with Xanthan to help it hold while it sets?

I haven't tried Xanthan, as I don't have any. It looked the most promising out of the possibilities beyond agar, so I was kind of hoping to hear from someone that it would definitely work before purchasing some. In the Khymos guide, I don't think that any of the Xanthan recipes use an N2O canister.

Have you tried this, or has anyone else?

Best,

Alan

Alan,

At least around where I live - Xanthan gum is available at bulk food stores and health food places in bulk - cheap as borscht!

[A Patric]

Alan,

At least around where I live - Xanthan gum is available at bulk food stores and health food places in bulk - cheap as borscht!

Hi Kerry,

Thank you for the tip. I'll try to swing by the local health food store today. I didn't realize that it was readily available.

I'll keep you posted.

Best,

Alan

[Msk]

I would try using Agar-Agar. Typically Agar is used for "Warm Gelatins"

First create a version your sauce using Agar

(dissolve it in while boiling)(.5% to 3% range of your sauce weight-as per Khymos, the higher % the firmer the gel)

Let it cool and set

Shear in a blender to create a Fluid Gel

Load that gel into isi and keep warm but below the melting temp of Agar (85C/185F)

Hi MSK,

I have tried this exact method using many different proportions of agar to water. Even when the gel is extremely firm, it doesn't seem to be working for me. It will certainly foam, but it won't hold for more than a couple of seconds.

Best,

Alan

Have you tried adding some amount of Methocel? It would gel as it heats up and give structure as long as its hot.

[KennethT]

I agree - you can make a good, stable warm foam using agar - try the upper percentage range of what was listed above then gel it completely. Then shear while cold in the blender to make a fluid gel, which will then have the consistency of ketchup. Then you can warm the gel (up to 85degC, the melting point of agar) and add to your whipping siphon and add 1-2 NO2 charge. Or add the gel to the siphon and stick the siphon in a warm water bath and charge... If you had it available, you could also use a combination of xanthan and LA gellan, but gellan is harder to come by.

[A Patric]

I found something from the Khymos site:

It is a hot transparent savory mousse flavored only with meath juice and foamed with a n2o canister. It uses xanthan, konjac, and carrageenan. A small amount of maltitol is also added. I've noticed that some of the hydrocolloids function better with small amounts of sugar, glycerol, oil, or fine particulate. I'm wondering if agar is one of those, as I have tried everything from small amounts to very large amounts with pure water, using the method above, and having no luck at all.

I did pick up xanthan and guar gums today, and I'll try them both. First I'll try a proportion of 300g water to 1 g xanthan as this seems about right given the recipes in the Khymos book.

My goal is to find something that works with pure water and move on from there to fat-free flavored, though not sweetened, liquids, such as a clarified meat broth or vegetable juice.

If I want to buy konjac, carrageenan, or methyl cellulose does anyone know of a good, reasonably priced, online source?

Best,

Alan

ETA: methyl cellulose

Edited January 7, 2012 by A Patric (log)