Avian Flu comes to France (merged Fowl Dining)

[VivreManger]

This AM the NYTimes is running a story about the effect of discovering some dead ducks in an important poultry-producing area of France.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/24/internat...artner=homepage

The discovery of the diseased wild birds has prompted some very serious responses. Over the last few days I have been too busy to follow the story in the French press, but I wonder if those who have can add anything else?

[John Talbott]

This AM the NYTimes is running a story about the effect of discovering some dead ducks in an important poultry-producing area of France. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/24/internat...artner=homepage

The discovery of the diseased wild birds has prompted some very serious responses.  Over the last few days I have been too busy to follow the story in the French press, but I wonder if those who have can add anything else?

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Well, last night's Channel 2 news and the Canal Plus' Guignols showed PM Villepin chowing down on Bresse chicken salad sandwiches much to the delight of poultry raisers. (Shades of an ex-NY Gov drinking water to show that PCB's are good for you).

Seriously though, I think the press has been watching this very closely and the innoculation of flocks is underway (they showed boxes of vaccine arriving at vets' office only a day after they were called for). Apparently chicken consumption in restaurants is off 15-20 % (not nearly what it was after the mad cow scare).

[John Talbott]

You asked

How accurate is today's Times story?

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I refer interested members to another article in English, but written in France, as was Elaine Sciolino's of course, as well, recounting that 400/11,000 turkeys died on that one farm (not yet confirmed to be from H5N1, though). Le Monde's story is pretty much the same info - H5 but not yet proven H5N1, high alert, vaccination, money allocated, etc.

[menton1]

It is very accurate, IMHO. This has been widely reported in European news media. American news usually misses the boat on any news not US-centric. It is a story on "Le Journal" every day. (The French evening TV News). Yes, the "Grippe Aviare" is threatening to become a pandemic. The good news is that cooking the "volailles" thoroughly will kill the virus. The real worry is the spread from birds to humans, and then it morphing into human-human.

There is also an EU issue now about ordering flocks inside, and farmers losing the ability to call the eggs "free range". There is also a bird vaccine, but the numbers and quantities available are but a fraction of what is needed for the billions of birds being farmed.

[menton1]

Another disease affecting France has not gotten any attention in the US, but is all over the French media. In the TOM of Réunion, Chikungunya has been contracted by upwards of 140,000 people on the island. While not as worrisome as la grippe aviare, it has affected a huge number of people on this French island. Caused by a mosquito, it seems that the government did not act quickly enough to protect the population. (Sound familiar?)

If you planned a vacation on Réunion island, y0ou might want to think about a change of plans...

[Felice]

Saturday's Le Monde wrote that the turkey farmer first reported that 400 out of 11,000 turkeys had died and that many others were noticably sick. It then stated that throughout the following day their "death rate increased at a spectacular rate to the point where nearly 80% of the flock where striken" (my translation), authorities then killed the rest of the flock. If I'm reading this correctly, it's pretty frightening to see how quickly this disease is spread. These birds were also sheltered so it's not clear how they were infected. The article later remarks that if indeed the H5N1 virus has been introduced into the region, it could very well mean the end of Bresse Poultry.

Edited February 26, 2006 by Felice (log)

[John Talbott]

Apparently chicken consumption in restaurants is off 15-20 % (not nearly what it was after the mad cow scare).

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The newest estimates since the confirmation yesterday that it was specifically H5N1 are that chicken/poultry sales are off 30-50%. But officials are clearly trying to combat the fear of contracting it through oral consumption of cooked poultry and eggs, publicizing its safety by their eating such; President Chirac serving supreme de volaille at the Elysee and the health ministers eating poultry in Vienna at their meeting.

[Ptipois]

Apparently chicken consumption in restaurants is off 15-20 % (not nearly what it was after the mad cow scare).

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The newest estimates since the confirmation yesterday that it was specifically H5N1 are that chicken/poultry sales are off 30-50%. But officials are clearly trying to combat the fear of contracting it through oral consumption of cooked poultry and eggs, publicizing its safety by their eating such; President Chirac serving supreme de volaille at the Elysee and the health ministers eating poultry in Vienna at their meeting.

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I have been buying and cooking more chicken since this began, I intend to go on, and I wish more of us French people would do that. Volaille is supposed to be properly cooked anyway, there's absolutely no reason to panic.

[VivreManger]

How cooked is well-cooked, the instructions given for safe consumption of fowl?

I usually like my chicken and turkey breast, slightly pink at the center and duck breast ruddy. Otherwise I find that it is too dry. Is overdone fowl now de rigeur?

[Champagne Sadie]

Whilst I hope that the French poultry industry is not bought to it's knees, I can't help but think of the dirty tricks that France has played regarding the UK beef industry See Here.

[John Talbott]

Just when you thought you'd heard it all (Mad Cow, Poultry Flu), over the weekend back comes our old friend - Mad Sheep Disease aka scrapie.

[ludja]

France begins vaccinating poultry in parts of the country and some countries that import French poutry have institued bans: click

(from the London Times)

France today began vaccinating more than 300,000 geese and ducks in the department of the Landes, in the southwest of the country, an area that is famed for its foie gras and deemed to be at risk from the spread of the virus by migratory birds.

However, opinion is divided over whether vaccination helps to support trade or makes the situation more difficult, with some markets shunning meat from countries with vaccination programmes.

At least 20 countries have banned French poultry imports in response to the country's outbreak of bird flu, it was announced tonight.

Christine Lagarde, France's junior Trade Minister, said that states imposing total or partial restrictions included Japan, Hong Kong, Morocco, Egypt, Thailand and North Korea.

Mme Lagarde said that the bans affected five percent of the total export market, which is Europe's largest and is worth €1.4 billion (£1 billion) a year.

It may be the bans are more to contain potential spread of the virus to poultry in other countries rather than direct risk from consumption.

They are also mobilizing to have vaccine available to administer to birds in zoos in France. The article also mentions that the infection rate and geographic spread is increasing in Africa's most populous country, Nigeria.

[bleudauvergne]

These birds were also sheltered so it's not clear how they were infected. 

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Analysis on French radio this morning - the hay used to bed the turkeys was stored in an uncovered area outside, and they are suggesting that it was the medium for the transmission of the disease to the flock.

As for the NYT article, it seems to paint quite an accurate picture - except that for the agricultural fair, it wasn't chicken althogether that was not allowed, but live chicken displays. A number of politicians ate cooked chicken at the agricultural fair.

We're still eating chicken and eggs and we'll continue to listen to reports. Unless the vets stop doing their job, I'm going to trust what they say about safety.

[John Talbott]

We're still eating chicken and eggs and we'll continue to listen to reports.  Unless the vets stop doing their job, I'm going to trust what they say about safety.

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Well, Lucy, that option has been taken out of Americans' hands, at least when it comes from poultry from the Ain; Expatica quotes the AFP as saying the US has banned all importation of such animals as of today.

[Ptipois]

How cooked is well-cooked, the instructions given for safe consumption of fowl?

Enough, anyway. Chicken should always be well-done. Some chefs have taken the habit to undercook chicken during the last ten years or so, which only makes it rubbery and doesn't let the taste come through.

Duck is a problem, I admit, because the magrets and filets should be cooked rare. But I doubt sick ducks are likely to be put for sale.

I usually like my chicken and turkey breast, slightly pink at the center and duck breast ruddy.  Otherwise I find that it is too dry.  Is overdone fowl now de rigeur?

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Cooking chicken properly (which means: enough) without making it dry is a delicate art that recent cuisine has mostly decided to do away with. Undercooked chicken was dangerous even before the bird flu craze (salmonella, etc.). One positive effect of this regrettable period could be a return to better ways with chicken.

[John Talbott]

Expatica quoted the AFP today as saying that live French poultry exports were off 44%, that 43 countries had joined the ban and that non-EU foie gras was off 14%.

[ludja]

Expatica quoted the AFP today as saying that live French poultry exports were off 44%, that 43 countries had joined the ban and that non-EU foie gras was off 14%.

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This is so sad and scary. I suppose the primary reason for the ban by other countries is to try and slow the spread of the virus into the importing country's poultry industry. Hopefully it will be possible to contain or controll the spread of virus within the commercial industry with some of the precautions being taken.

The bits and pieces of initial news coming out of Nigeria sound pretty gloomy though. I don't know if they have the infrastructure to deal with this if it is even possible. I also read of hideous stories re: people abandoning or putting down their pet cats in Germany after the incident of the infected cat there.

This article details warning leaflets that are being given to UK travelers regarding avian flu:

The leaflet advises:

Do not visit bird or poultry farms and markets

Avoid close contact with live or dead poultry

Do not eat raw or poorly-cooked poultry or poultry products, including blood

Wash your hands frequently with soap and water

And it says that if people have been in contact with live of dead poultry in anaffected country they should be aware of the symptoms of bird flu in humans, which are similar to ordinary flu symptoms and can appear suddenly.

Symptoms can include

A fever - a temperature above 38C

Cough

Shortness of breath

Headache

Sore throat and eyes

Muscle aches

...

"H5N1 avian influenza is predominantly a disease of birds.

"The virus does not pass easily from birds to people and has not yet been shown to pass from person to person.

"Where people have been infected, it was as a result of close contact with infected poultry or birds."

He added: "The virus has caused severe disease and a high proportion of people have died.

"H5N1 infections have not been reported in this country, but it is important that travellers from the UK have clear factual information to assist them."

Edited March 2, 2006 by ludja (log)

[jamiemaw]

This horrible tragedy is now aimed at Bresse, according to an article in today's Globe and Mail.

"But the idyllic lives of the chickens, so integral to their market value and cultural cachet, is over. Bird flu has cast a shadow over the farmyards of east-central France, depriving the chickens of the conditions essential to their uniqueness and threatening to wipe out the centuries-old breed.

"In the heart of the Bresse chicken country, at least a dozen wild birds have died from the virulent H5N1 virus. The disease also struck a turkey farm not far from Bourg-en-Bresse, leading to the forced slaughter of 11,000 chickens.

All poultry producers in the region, a low-lying bowl of territory between Burgundy and the Jura Mountains, have been ordered to confine their birds in enclosed buildings 24 hours a day to prevent new infections.

"The chickens have never faced such a restriction, which contradicts the most fundamental of their strictly observed routines. "They are not used to being closed in. They are used to running," said Cyril Degluaire, a 26-year-old producer of Bresse chickens near the hamlet of La Baraque, midway between Macon and Bourg-en-Bresse.

"That's why they have such beautiful thighs. Now they knock at the door, demanding to go out.

"What's at stake," declared Jean-Michel Bertrand, a deputy mayor of Bourg-en-Bresse, "is the very survival of the poultry of Bresse."

Meanwhile in Quebec, the importation ban on French mulard ducks has wreaked havoc with the La Belle Province's foie gras industry.

[bleudauvergne]

This horrible tragedy is now aimed at Bresse, according to an article in today's Globe and Mail.

"But the idyllic lives of the chickens, so integral to their market value and cultural cachet, is over. Bird flu has cast a shadow over the farmyards of east-central France, depriving the chickens of the conditions essential to their uniqueness and threatening to wipe out the centuries-old breed.

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Not so fast on this breed being killed off, Jamie! What is at risk is this batch's AOC certification. They need to run outdoors in order to get the certification. Otherwise, they're just chickens like any other. Keeping them inside will not kill them off. Next generation that is authorized to run free will certainly do so, of that I'm sure.

"What's at stake," declared Jean-Michel Bertrand, a deputy mayor of Bourg-en-Bresse, "is the very survival of the poultry of Bresse."

Yes sir, that's why we're keeping them inside for the time being!

Still no announcement on the sale or consumption of chicken here in France. We're still eating it.

[Ptipois]

Still no announcement on the sale or consumption of chicken here in France.  We're still eating it.

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And will continue doing so. There is still a good choice of chickens for sale at Monoprix, so yesterday I prepared a farc normand.

[jamiemaw]

This horrible tragedy is now aimed at Bresse, according to an article in today's Globe and Mail.

"But the idyllic lives of the chickens, so integral to their market value and cultural cachet, is over. Bird flu has cast a shadow over the farmyards of east-central France, depriving the chickens of the conditions essential to their uniqueness and threatening to wipe out the centuries-old breed.

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Not so fast on this breed being killed off, Jamie! What is at risk is this batch's AOC certification. They need to run outdoors in order to get the certification. Otherwise, they're just chickens like any other. Keeping them inside will not kill them off. Next generation that is authorized to run free will certainly do so, of that I'm sure.

"What's at stake," declared Jean-Michel Bertrand, a deputy mayor of Bourg-en-Bresse, "is the very survival of the poultry of Bresse."

Yes sir, that's why we're keeping them inside for the time being!

Still no announcement on the sale or consumption of chicken here in France. We're still eating it.

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Lucy,

Sorry if the article disappeared behind a screen before you could read what was an unusually lengthy report with some solid images. And yes, it spent many column inches describing the outdoor feeding characteristics (minimum 10 square metres per bird) that distinguish the Bresse appellation.

The article also raises specific concern about the potential contamination at the Bresse breeding centre; full contamination suits are being worn by employees.

We're particularly sensitive to the effects of Avian Flu here, having suffered two major culls of chickens, ducks and geese in the Fraser Valley over the past 18 months, including 17 million chickens.

The most recent, last November, saw the cull of 55,000 ducks and geese; it was fortunately a false alarm but too late to save the flocks.

Let's hope for the best.

Edited March 5, 2006 by jamiemaw (log)

[Felice]

How cooked is well-cooked, the instructions given for safe consumption of fowl?

Enough, anyway. Chicken should always be well-done. Some chefs have taken the habit to undercook chicken during the last ten years or so, which only makes it rubbery and doesn't let the taste come through.

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According to a little booklet I received from the Mairie de Paris, the virus is killed at temperatures above 60 degrees celsius.

[John Talbott]

I'm getting a bit wary of posting info on every darn bird that dies in France. I don't want to fear monger, but Expatica/AFP did say one more wild swan died in Saint-Mitre-les-Ramparts near the Berre lagoon, close to Marseille of the H5N1.

[AlexBernardo]

I'm off to France this weekend and I intend to order some of my favorite bistro birds like roast pintade and canard aux olives.

But I was reading the Sunday paper yesterday and didn't realize until then that bird flu has become a cause celebre in France. The report said that poultry sales are down, including foie gras. Politicians are trying to allay fears by eating as much chicken as they possibly can. I'm wondering now if that sidewalk rotisserie in front of the butcher shop across from the hotel I usually stay in might still be there. Thankfully, restos are keeping poultry in the menu. The report said that Tour d'Argent has the same demand as before for its famous duck. And I remember in another report that Bocuse is not worried.

Anyway, I plan to dine at some of my usual haunts. Allard, Chez Gramond, L'Ourcine, Mon Vieille Ami in Paris. Ma Cuisine and Cave des Arches in Beaune. Winstub Sommelier in Colmar. I will report when I get back, unless, of course, I get very unlucky from all that fowl I'd be eating!