Please help with cannele recipe

[Wolfert]

copper molds I would detect a difference in the crust.  But these were damn good until I can afford the copper! 

FYI, I got my molds at Bridge Kitchenware.

For anyone who has not made canneles due to the high cost of the proper copper molds, I have now had great success with the silicon molds.  I finally did the beeswax/butter treatment, used Nancy Silverton's recipe (although I reduce the sugar to just 400g (2 cups)) and they were very close to those that I have had at La Brea Bakery.  Well, the ones at La Brea Bakery BEFORE it was sold.  A beautiful, shiny crust that was crisp and chewy and the moist, custardy interior.  And no problem holding their shape.

Kit: did you use the same temperature and timing as suggested by nancy silverton? I've tried the gastroflex and was really disappointed with the glassy exterior. The moul'flex may be the way to go. I'm going to try it.

In the meantime, I would like to share a story, recipe and notes for canele de bordeaux which will appear in my new book coming out this fall. (My recipe originally appeared in Food Arts about two years ago.)

http://www.paula-wolfert.com/recipes/canele.html

any comments would be much appreciated.

Edited June 10, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[nightscotsman]

Great, another recipe I have to try.

Just kidding . Thanks for the great article, Paula. The recipe sounds very good and I appreciate all the details. One question: is there a reason the milk must be heated to exactly 183 F? Would it ruin the recipe if I were just to bring the milk to a boil and let it cool for a few minutes before adding it to the rest of the ingredients as Nancy Silverton directs?

[Wolfert]

I don't bring milk to a boil because the flavor tends to change. The temperature of 183 is just a conversion from the celsius given to me by chef Antoine.

By the way if you have a convection oven , the results are spectacular.

[charlotte baker]

Nightscotsman---I'm glad you tried the Michel Roux recipe I posted. His book was

published in 1995. I wonder if that was where Nick Malgieri got the recipe.

I've never had the " white ass " problem. I guess I've been lucky.

If you want to try a different way of using the cannele batter, pour the whole thing into a Nordicware Festival tube pan. Unmolds easily, has the same dark, crisp exterior, custardy interior and looks spectacular.

[trillium]

Does the batter cooked in Nordicware Bundt pans have the same dark, crisp exterior even without the butter/beeswax mixture? I'm very intrigued by this idea...I bought the a 10 c Bundt pan at Costco because it was cheaper then at a cookware store and it came with one of the 6 mini Bundts pan. I haven't figured out what to use the it for, but I love canneles.

regards,

trillium

[Wolfert]

for themini=bundt molds: simply brush lightly with butter. When they are black on the outside they're done.

Inside this fat cannele there's a skinny canele de bordeaux screaming to get out. EAt it as if it was for real!!!

Edited June 10, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[Wolfert]

Nightscotsman---I'm glad you tried the Michel Roux recipe I posted. His book was

published in 1995. I wonder if that was where Nick Malgieri got the recipe.

I've never had the " white ass " problem. I guess I've been lucky.

If you want to try a different way of using the cannele batter, pour the whole thing into a Nordicware Festival tube pan. Unmolds easily, has the same dark, crisp exterior, custardy interior and looks spectacular.

I've never had the " white ass " problem. I guess I've been lucky.

I think you're very lucky. Other readers might find themselves stuck with "white asses" What to do?. Do what the the patissiers of Bordeaux do, run the tops under a broiler for a second to brown the crown.

Edited June 10, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[nightscotsman]

I admire that you have never had that problem, but others might find themselves stuck. Just in case someone reading this does: here is what the patissiers of Bordeaux do,run the tops under a broiler for a second to brown the crown.

Ah-ha! tricky. Thanks for the tip.

[Wolfert]

Here's what is happening - as the cannele starts to bake it expands and pushes itself up and out of the mold, leaving a big airspace between the batter and the bottom of the mold. This means that the top tends to burn and the bottom never browns. I've tried slipping a knife down the side of the mold to release the pressure when it starts to rise, but within minutes of putting them back in the oven they spring out of the pan again. I actually "re-seated" them about five times before giving up and letting them bake. I'm getting really frustrated! QUOTE]

I just read the message above which was posted some time ago, but I didn't see any comment as followup. So allow me to offer a comment: the canele or cannele will sometimes rise and push itself up and out of the mold, but this is not a problem. If left alone to bake a full 2 hours the cannele or canele will return to its "starting place."

Edited June 11, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[charlotte baker]

Trillium--Just butter the tube pan. It will unmold easily. If your tube pan has a non-stick surface don't use Pam. It will leave a sticky residue that is virtually impossible to remove.

[kitwilliams]

Good to hear the silcone molds work well. What brand of molds did you end up using? Are they the black ones or the red ones?

I've seen both the red and the black but mine are definitely rust colored. On the Bridge website they are called "Silicon Flex".

Kit: did you use the same temperature and timing as suggested by nancy silverton?

Yes, Paula, having lowered the temperature to 375 once, I have now decided that the 400 degrees for two hours does have the best results. Enjoyed the article too. Can't wait until I finally get to Bordeaux so that I can sample the ultimate!

I have batter in the frig right now! Fresh canelles tomorrow!

[Wolfert]

Kit:

I can see that caneles are your passion. Mine too! And your description of success with the silicone molds from Bridge kitchenware is very exciting. If the molds are the right size, that is each one has a 3 oz capacity. I certainly want to buy a few sheets from Bridges. Thank's so much for the tip.

If you have the time, would you mind answering some questions?

Do you chill the wax and butttered silicone molds before baking?

Are you using the large 3 ounce size mold?

Do you get a really good crackling crunch?

Is the texture of the filling a gentle rich custard?

Many thanks

Paula

Edited June 11, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[kitwilliams]

Kit:

I can see that caneles are your passion. Mine too! And your description of success with the silicone molds from Bridge kitchenware is very exciting. If they are right size: 3 oz each I certainly want to buy a few sheets.  Thank you so much for the tip.

Do you mind answering some questions?

 

Do you chill the wax and butttered silicone molds before baking?

Are you using the large 3 ounce size mold?

Do you get a really good crackling crunch?

Is the texture of the filling a gentle rich custard?

Many thanks

Paula

Paula: The thing you need to know about me and cannele is that I've never eaten one in France. Payard and La Brea bakery are the only places I have experienced them. Just wanted to give you that little "heads up"! And nightscotsman is the true cannele expert on egullet! But I'm happy to share what I have learned.

I just sampled one from the batch I baked this morning. Interestingly, the batter sat for nearly 40 hours (I usually can't wait the required 24 hours due to impatience) and they did not rise as much. Nancy Silverton notes that the batter should be used within 48 hours so I pretty much stretched it to the limit and so found that closer to the 24 hour mark is better as far as size goes. However the interior seems to be even more custardy than usual. A true pleasure to bite into.

The crust is a good thickness and crackling crunchy both top and bottom however there is a ring around the middle where it just doesn't get the extreme top or bottom heat and a chewier rather than crisp crust has developed. That seems to be the norm for me however it is more pronounced in today's older batter. Is that a problem with copper molds as well or might it just be the silicon sheet molds which, due to their closeness, may not attract as much heat as do the individual copper molds.

My molds hold just short of 3 oz. Here is a link to the size at Bridge: http://www.bridgekitchenware.com/moreinfo....Product_ID=2587

And yes, I wax/butter the molds and stick them in the freezer until ready to fill them.

But I did bring my milk to a full boil, as Nancy states. Next time I'll try the 183 degree mark. And I may have convection soon so look forward to seeing the results that will bring!

NSM: I'm trying chocolate cannele next!

[mjc]

Are there differences between a cannele that you would get here in US from payard, la brea, or even balthazar (there is a clear difference between balthazar and payard actually), compared to what you would find in Bordeaux.

P.S.. I really liked your article Paula and will try your recipe.

I also agree with the use of a convection oven, I've gotten a much better cannele when using professional convection oven than from my regular oven at home.

[Wolfert]

Thank you so much for the detailed answers to my questions. I'm curious enough to try one sheet and will order asap now that I know they are available in the 3 0z size.

Since I've only worked with copper molds, I have never experienced that middle line.

I,too, have found that waiting two days before using makes the caneles creamier inside. And, you can freeze the mixture and after defrosting and baking it is even better.

Some caneles are too cake-y inside for my taste. If you get around to trying my adaptation of patissier Antoine's recipe, you'll notice the procedure is quite different: milk is added to the egg yolks after they are mixed into the flour +butter+ sugar blend. In my experience this helps to create a very creamy interior.

I will try those chocolate ones as well. They look yummy.

Again, I can't thank you enough

[Wolfert]

"Are there differences between a cannele that you would get here in US from payard, la brea, or even balthazar (there is a clear difference between balthazar and payard actually), compared to what you would find in Bordeaux."

P.S.. I really liked your article Paula and will try your recipe.

I also agree with the use of a convection oven, I've gotten a much better cannele when using professional convection oven than from my regular oven at home.

u"Are there differences between a cannele that you would get here in US from payard, la brea, or even balthazar (there is a clear difference between balthazar and payard actually), compared to what you would find in Bordeaux."

The recipe on the website is my attempt to duplicate the one given to me by patissier Antoine of Bordeaux. I think his canele is delicious. As for the Balthazar version, I've been told my canele is very similar in texture and taste to the one they make. I haven't been there to try it, but it is one of the first things I want to do when I go to NY this fall.

Hope this info helps.

And thanks for your kind words about the piece.

Edited June 12, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[kitwilliams]

Are there differences between a cannele that you would get here in US from payard, la brea, or even balthazar (there is a clear difference between balthazar and payard actually), compared to what you would find in Bordeaux.

mjc: That's the thing: I don't know if there are differences but I sure would like to find out!

and what IS the difference between payard and balthazar?

[mjc]

and what IS the difference between payard and balthazar?

The big difference between Payard's Canneles and Balthazar's is the color and texture on the outside. Payards are almost black (or a very dark caramel color) and very crisp while balthazar's are a much ligher brown and not as crisp. Both are quite delicious though. Its been quite a few months since I last compared them, but I believe that Payard's tend to be slightly more custardy on the inside. Also suprisingly the ones at payard a a quarter cheaper.

I always guessed that bathazar made theirs is silicon and payard in metal, because when I make them in the copper molds my results are much more similar to payard's, but thats just pure speculation.

[Wolfert]

Thank you so much for describing the differences between the caneles at payard and balthazar. So much for trusting someone else's tastebuds. Now, I can't wait to go to NY, and try them both.

Edited June 12, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[mamster]

Okay, now I am extremely jealous that you New Yorkers have multiple cannelés to choose from, and absolutely no one sells them in Seattle. I guess I'm going to have to get some molds, now that nightscotsman is leaving town.

[nightscotsman]

I've never had them in the US, but the cannele I had in Paris - from several well respected patisseries - were not crisp on the outside. They were very dark brown and beautifully formed, but the crust was more chewy than crunchy.

[Wolfert]

In Bordeaux, caneles are considered at their most glorious 1 to 5 hours out of the oven when they are crusty on the outside and still ever so slightly warm within. As they stand they get a little soft and chewy on the outside. Most patissiers who have the time reheat them in a hot oven for 5 minutes so their shelf life can be extended

Rose Levy Beranbaum told me that one patissier she knew used to flame his canele with rum every 5 hours.

I have never tried it..

Pierre Herme's wife once complained that if a canele sits around too long "the texture gets so soft you can use one as a substitute for a sponge"

Edited June 12, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[trillium]

Okay, now I am extremely jealous that you New Yorkers have multiple cannelés to choose from, and absolutely no one sells them in Seattle. I guess I'm going to have to get some molds, now that nightscotsman is leaving town.

Or the next time you're in Portland come and eat them at Ken's. His version has a dark caramel colored slightly crunchy crust and is flavored with orange zest and maybe rum?

regards,

trillium

[nightscotsman]

So I baked a batch of canelés using Paula Wolfert's recipe today. Actually, I made two batches since I was curious to see if the unusual mixing technique specified by the recipe made a difference in the finished product. The first batch was made exactly following the Paula's recipe - blending the butter and flour in the food processor, adding the sugar, and heating the milk to only 183 F. I baked the canelés using copper molds coated with bee's wax melted with vegetable oil. Though the recipe says to bake for 1-3/4 to 2 hours at 400 F, I found them to be quite dark enough at 1-1/4 hours. They didn't rise at all (so I didn't have any problem with then popping out of the molds), and in fact shrank to smaller that before being baked.

I tasted the canelés after they had cooled to room temperature and the crust was quite hard and crisp, fairly similar to the Nancy Silverton recipe, but the inside was lighter and creamier than any version I tried so far. It was much more like a thick pastry cream enclosed in a hard shell than a little cake. Excellent!

The second batch I used a more conventional mixing technique: just whisking together the egg yolks, sugar and flour smoothed with a little cold milk, then bringing the milk and butter to a boil and whisking it while still hot into the egg/sugar mixture. The cooled batter was a little thinner than the first batch, but otherwise looked the same.

Other than not chilling the molds before pouring in the batter, I baked the second batch the same time and temp as the first. This time the canelés rose a little in the molds and didn't shrink quite as much, resulting in a slightly taller finished product. Cooled, the crust and interior were indistinquishable from the first batch. Both batches made 11 pastries.

While I still like the way the Silverton recipe rises a bit and makes a taller canelé, I really liked the light and creamy interior of Paula's version, so I may do some more testing to see if I can produce a version somewhere in between.

Thanks again for the recipe and the background info, Paula!

[mjc]

thanks for the report night. Those sound excellent.

Did you fill your molds to the top? (Oddly, I've found sometimes, where I fill the molds to influences whether they rise or don't.)

How much would you say they shrank?

Did your second bach rise taller than the molds?

I am looking foward to see where your experiments take you. Also looking forward to finishing up finals, so I can give the recipe a try.

Edited June 18, 2003 by mjc (log)