Shopping sources and Customs regulations

[John Talbott]

Has anyone tried printing out regulations from the website and presenting it if an agent gets picky?  At one point I was scared I wouldn't get my cheeses in and had the fromagere print me up a certificate confirming the cheese had been aged 60 days.  I never had to present it, though, because it turns out they didn't want to inspect anything when I was going through.

←

Lucy - that's a great idea.

We could even "publish" an excerpt here from the website Menton1 has provided.

Thanks

John

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I actually carry one, but not the one on food! The newly determined security list of "what you can take with you and in which bag you have to put it", since I was releaved of a tiny pair of beautiful and expensive rounded-point scissors that I carelessly left in my carry-on at CDG a couple of years ago.

[bleudauvergne]

Yes, at CDG they are notorious nail clipper and manicure equipment snatchers. Last time my hubby went to California, though, on the return trip, someone at the L.A. airport actually removed the blades from his safety razor from the dop kit in his checked baggage! He had to go to an important meeting looking all scruffy!

Food items, though, normally can be taken onto the plane and consumed there if they won't make it through on the other side.

[Kate Hill]

This may be a nit no one can pick, but is "mi-cuit" foie gras in or out? 

I could be very wrong but normally a terrine de foie gras is "foie gras mi-cuit" this is what you get when you order foie gras that comes on toast. It is made from baking the raw foie gras in a terrine (a type of pan). It's sometimes wrongly refered to as paté, at least by Americans. It's mostly duck (or goose) liver with perhaps some spices and a little cognac, but that's it.

You can also pan-sear raw foie gras.

←

No, you are quite correct.

I guess I wasn't clear; I was curious as to what the US Customs' Agents' little cheat sheet says about the acceptability of raw, mi-cuit, frais, cooked, tinned, etc foie gras?

←

My experience flying from foie gras heaven here in Gascony to the US is:

1. I always declare everything now; I'm just careful what I buy and act VERY confident.

2.Pork is bad- since pate is usually a mixture, never call foie gras 'pate' even if it is 'pate de foie gras'.

3. I was told foie gras and pate in tins/cans is preferable to glass jars. ???

4. A professional looking label is an advantage over anything that looks homemade

5. Foie gras 'mi-cuit' isn't sterilized as long nor at as high a temperature- so is frowned upon and/or forbidden.

6. after 20 years of to and froing, I agree with the random nature of the enforcement of these laws. I'd love to see a definite list but suspect things like the avian flu will cause new laws and random enforcement forever.

Just remember, in the end, it's only snacks and if it is taken away, better to have loved in France and had an edible souvenir than not at all.

[Bux]

. . . .

3. I was told foie gras and pate in tins/cans is preferable to glass jars. ???

. . . .

←

Tins are obviously sealed and the contents inside are cooked. I suppose someone could go to a cannery and get some raw meat sealed in a can, but it's highly unlikely. On the other hand, a mason jar, or any glass jar that's pressure sealed with sterile contents, isn't going to look any different from one that's just been closed tightly by hand, and vice versa. The only way for a customs official to know if a jar is hermetically sealed is to open it. Some years ago we brought in pate in glass jars and the inspector gave it some thought before allowing it. That was well before the mad cow, hoof and mouth outbreaks and current apprehensions.

For what it's worth, foie gras has been an on and off import. There was a discussion on the subject here some time ago. The last time it was banned in all forms, the suspicion was that it was a political gesture meant to apply pressure in regard to some ban on the other side. It may have been something as unrelated as bananas, or even a non food. Those bans are usually intended to affect commercial importers. The owner of my favorite Italian product market has often complained about the restrictions he's faced over the years with prosciutto, mortadella and other salumi from Italy. I'm not saying that all restrictions are political by any means, but that sometimes, the bans defy rational comprehension.

[raisab]

On the subject of security items, they will now allow previously disallowed items(at US security) . I won't even mention them, since I vigourously oppose the relaxation of these rules for obvious reason.

I will be going through customs again on Thursday, if I have time before my flight back to DC I will question the agents on where I can get copies of their updates, but this may be harder than trying to get high security documents!

[menton1]

These food importation rules were not set up to harrass the public; they were instituted to protect the health and safety of Americans. They should be uniform, and they should be enforced!!!

[raisab]

Menton, I am not sure what you are refering to, in my post I was talking about TSA rules. And as our beloved host would say, I respectfully disagree about the rules. They are not meant to harass the public, that is d'accord, but safety, not always. The caviar is in response to over fishing in the Caspian. Others are politically motivated, not all, but some.

[VivreManger]

These food importation rules were not set up to harrass the public; they were instituted to protect the health and safety of Americans.  They should be uniform, and they should be enforced!!!

←

While I would agree that their intention is not harassment, their effect might be. As for health and safety, that certainly is the rationale. However the definition of health and safety is very much in the mind of the bureaucrat and the legislator. As we well know, lobbyists and campaign donors, as well as vested local economic interests all play a role in this process. The pasteurized cheese industry has a considerable interest in determining how health and safety are defined. The result is that we are denied the commercial importation of wonderful raw milk cheese.

Steve Shaw wrote a long piece about this many years ago. I don't have the URL handy, but the following tidbits should help any enterprising googler find it. Steve also posted this on eGullet so it is lurking around somewhere.

"Cheesy does it

Getting your hands on great cheese in the United States means circumventing an archaic FDA regulation.

By Steven A. Shaw

- - - - - - - - - -

January 28, 2000 | I met "Pierre" at a rest area near the Canadian border at midnight. I handed him a $100 bill and he handed me a brown paper bag. "Don't you want to count it?" I quipped. He folded the bill, put it in his pocket, backed away from me (never breaking eye contact and never speaking), slid into his Pontiac Bonneville and drove back north to Quebec."

Salon.com

[ann]

This is from the APHIS web site:

"As a general rule - if goods are cooked and in shelf-stable (does not

require refrigeration) packaging such as cans or other hermetically sealed

containers AND they are not from a country affected with various diseases

such as Avian influenza, Mad Cow disease, swine fever, etc., they may be

admissible...

Pate - If cooked and in a hermetically sealed container, maybe - see

Matrix. Otherwise - no.

Fois Gras - If cooked and in a hermetically sealed container, maybe- see

Matrix. Otherwise, no."

Of course, the link to the Matrix referred to above doesn't work! So I've e-mailed Customs, which APHIS referred me to, and will post here if I get an answer. BTW, those cute little beagles are now being helped with modern technology. In late October, in Chicago, we cleared Immigration and then Customs as usual, and THEN the USDA had X-ray screeners through which all luggage was put. So don't try to hide those little cans of foie gras!

[ann]

I finally found the Matrix referred to above: Animal Product Manual, in Appendix A, which is the Guide to Entry Status of Animal Products in Passenger Baggage or Mail. The Matrix on page A15 indicates that only cooked poultry products can be brought in from France, and the definition of "cooked" is on A3. I hope this helps, since so far APHIS and the National Center for Import and Export (NCIE) have referred me to the other agency for a definitive answer.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

ann, you should be designated a "National Treasure"! Many thanks for this extraordinarily valuable link. That said, it will take most of us considerable time to deconstruct this wealth of information. I'm starting now.... (any interpretations from other readers is more than welcome...)

[ann]

Margaret, I had a rotten day, salvaged only by your kind words. Many many thanks. My interpretation, BTW, is that cooked, sealed and labeled poultry products are the ONLY kind of meat/pork/poutry meat allowed to be brought in from France. I too would love others' interpretations.

[bleudauvergne]

This is really a great source for info. Thanks Ann. Anyone who is considering a job in commerical import and export of food products could also benefit from this document as well.

[VivreManger]

I have just been reviewing the Dept. of Agriculture Manual. I hate to sound like the kid viewing the emperor's new clothing, but I don't find it very helpful. It is no surprise that custom's officials vary greatly in what they enforce. They simply cannot know what the regulations are since they are so complicated and change from month to month. The most practical information is to collect reports from regular travellers who can inform us as to what is being checked where.

Mad cow disease, avian flu, et cet. are the variable flavors of the month for customs officials. Whatever is grabbing the headlines at the moment is most likely what they will enforce.

I realize that this is not very helpful, but that is the reality of a system that is simply too complex to work.

[VivreManger]

I would also add that the main concern of the manual is not the individual traveler, but the commercial importer.

[bleudauvergne]

What it all boils down to are the individuals who are working any particular post. How they interpret the rules may vary.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I would also add that the main concern of the manual is not the individual traveler, but the commercial importer.

←

True. Did you also notice the clause that says, and I don't have it in front of me, something to the effect that this list is not law but only a guide for the customs agent, ergo because something is on the list as allowable doesn't necessarily mean that it is...

[VivreManger]

Absolutely. The system is such a byzantine mess that the best advice is regular and substantive reports from frequent travelers about their experiences.

In my case, I can say that going through customs in New England, the consistent question has concerned meat, and to a less extent fresh fruits and vegetables. Previously it was ruminants, now it is those plus fowl. Cheese and milk products get little attention.

Edited April 25, 2006 by VivreManger (log)

[John Talbott]

Absolutely.  The system is such a byzantine mess that the best advice is regular and substantive reports from frequent travelers about their experiences. 

In my case, I can say that going through customs in New England, the consistent question has concerned meat, and to a less extent fresh fruits and vegetables.  Previously it was ruminants, now it is those plus fowl.  Cheese and milk products get little attention.

←

So Vivre let me be sure. You check the food box YES and tell them you have cheese (no age/pasturization/etc specified) and it's all ok?

[VivreManger]

Yes. To be precise, they do not ask questions about cheese, but they do about meat, fruit, and vegetables.

[VivreManger]

Yesterday I arrived in Boston's Logan Airport after a trip to the UK, Italy, and France. I declared over $900 worth of goods (in excess of the nominal maximum of 800). In addition to clothing, books, and CDs, I listed food including cheese. I highlighted the cooked and canned duck and goose liver. No attention was paid to the cheese. The customs agent noted the liver and said I would have to speak to agriculture, as I expected. As we were kibbitizing another customs agent said that he did not know the regulations since they change from day to day, but he thought that the liver would be banned. He called it pate, but I said it was not that, but merely liver, with nothing else added. He then said it was pate de foie gras, but again I said it was simply foie gras. None of this actually affected the decision since he said that it was not his, since the agriculture inspectors had to make the call. As I was gathering my bags the friendly beagel were sniffing around. They got interested in a few bags belonging to some Asian visitors, but the epoisses cryovaced in my luggage aroused no interest.

A few minutes later at the agriculture inspection, the agent looked at the cans of foie gras, noted that it was only goose and duck liver, with no ruminant additives, and pronounced it acceptable. The beagle was back in the neighborhood, but still ignored my cheese. In addition to the raw milk epoisses, I also had two camemberts, a gaperon, cantal, and one gruyere, all raw milk.

What is clear is that, avian flu scare notwithstanding, the inspection still focusses on ruminants, that is beef, lamb, bison, buffalo and wild game such as deer, I believe. I think the pig is still kosher, since it is not a ruminant (?) but I did not inquire.

BTW despite my statement that I exceeded the limit, no customs duty was declared. I also had slightly more than the maximum wine/alcohol limit. Two bottles at 20 cl. each of armagnac, one at 50 cl. of grappa, and one bottle of wine. None of that interested them.

While I had plenty of chocolates, bread, pastry, cookies, cakes, and crackers, I had no fresh fruits or vegetables and clearly so stated.

The freshly baked tarte tatin and the lemon tarts got no interest either.

[glauer]

I can support the notion that customs aand FDA at the Boston airport are extremely reasonable. I usually bring a case of wine from home and declare - never a problem. same with cheeses etc.

they only get interested in my cans with german liverwurst etc, but when I show them that they are all pork they always let me pass quickly. overall always a friendly and relaxed experience. but I think the key is to declare everything.

[John Talbott]

He called it pate, but I said it was not that, but merely liver, with nothing else added.  He then said it was pate de foie gras, but again I said it was simply foie gras. 

A friend (a lawyer who'd checked the regs first) said pate was a cocktail spread; it passed.

I had no fresh fruits or vegetables and clearly so stated. 

←

Where do potatoes fit? I was thinking of bringing over some of my incredible Bonnotte Noirmoutier ones.

[VivreManger]

Pate is a problem if it contains ruminants, but apparently pig and bird pate is, at least for the moment, not a problem.

As for raw potatoes, if uncooked, they might get confiscated, but I have never tried to bring spuds so I cannot respond.