Conflicts of interest....?

[Shiraziste]

I come and go here and I do find it a pretty good resource for dining in Vancouver. The reason I rarely stick around for long is the issue of the large numbers of those who feel it's alright to promote on their own restaurants.

It may not necessarily be the owner, but a server, chef/cook, bartender, assistant manager, dishwasher, or other ...........

Many posters don't tell you they are affiliated with the 'said' space they are commenting on, and I think this poses a serious conflict of interest concerning the validity of their opinions.

Of course, I find it acceptable that those who wish to confirm or deny the details discussed on the forum on their places, but to come on and shamelessly promote a space without divulging an affiliation is blatantly self-promoting and does nothing for those who wish for an unbiased and fair opinion.

Then there is the issue of those who are invited to their 'friends' free restaurant or menu launches, those who are drinking free Moet while eating their way through the night. Hard to be unbiased in this situation, and one involved wouldn't dare to criticize 'the hand that feeds you' so to speak.

Fake names and loose monikers don't make it easy to point them out by those not ITB unless otherwise indicated, but I've noticed a few.

Is there not a policy in effect concerning this particular practice here ?

One would think that anyone ITB should disclose this info, either by tag-line or by a comment indicating such.

Sadly I must dismiss those I suspect are being less than honest about who they are and who they connected to, but fortunately I know many people in this industry and can discern between those who are fairly posting and those who are not.

Furthermore, I also find it difficult not to question the fairness of a restaurant reviewer who ius well known, doesn't everyone in this town know WHO Jamie Maw, Mia Stansby and Tim Pawsey are - please, if I saw them in my place I'd be kissing their bums and draping them in foie gras, then accompanying dessert with a lap-dance.

Cheers,

Shiraziste

PS, I don't even tell my friends when I'm going to eat at their restaurants so I receive a fair outlook on what can be done when a nobody who's not anybody dines there.

Edited October 25, 2005 by Shiraziste (log)

[BCinBC]

...

PS, I don't even tell my friends when I'm going to eat at their restaurants so I receive a fair outlook on what can be done when a nobody who's not anybody dines there.

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Don't your friends know what you look like?

[Shiraziste]

...

PS, I don't even tell my friends when I'm going to eat at their restaurants so I receive a fair outlook on what can be done when a nobody who's not anybody dines there.

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Don't your friends know what you look like?

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Usually I'm not noticed until the dinner is served, and most of my friends are pion's

[canucklehead]

In the Vancouver Forum (I am trying to keep this topic Vancouver specific) - most people think for themselves and are able to separate the wheat from the chaff.

There are alot of industry insiders that post - and for the most part - I am very happy for it. I don't think that groupthink is as prevalent as it may seem to be at times. The postings tend to be polite and focused on the positive - but that does not mean people can't spot the red herring on the plate.

At times, and this is to borrow a phrase, it does seem that the Happy Train is on full bore here - so it is nice to hear dissenting POV's. As for the creditability of well know reviewers - well it is a case by case issue. I happen to place alot of trust in Mr Maw - and this has been earned over a number of reviews and articles.

Perhaps threads you should at:

Vancouver Reviewers, who do you go by?

Eg and Vancouver Restaurants - are we too soft?

Alot of people have made thoughtful comments in the past - so I don't think retreading discussions is that useful. Still - I always like see what people have to say.

Edited October 25, 2005 by canucklehead (log)

[nwyles]

Mishy,

Everyone is outed in the end.

There are no secrets here.

There is a natural tendendcy to defend one's workplace, or at least make an explanation when you see something written about it. But if someone remains part of this online "community", their affiliation comes out. If they are a one post wonder, who cares. They are forgotten fairly quickly. Unfortunatly, as far as I know, egullet does not have a Bullshit filter, so we all have to use our own common sense.

Although I know what Jamie looks like ( and offered to be the date to the $1000 Lumiere dinner ) , I have not met Mia or Tim Pawsey, nor do I know what they look like.

I do certainly know what you look like and perhaps a bum kissing is overdue !

Captain Hanger Steak ( my new moniker !! )

Edited October 26, 2005 by nwyles (log)

[fud]

^ An interesting comment but I have to ask:

Why would anyone in the biz want to self-promote on this site in the covert way you mentioned? If they got 'found out' they would lose all credibility in their restaurant as well as in their status on this site. It's already a well known fact that everything on this site is opinion so has to be taken with a little salt as many people have differing tastes.

Personally I have nothing but the upmost respect for people who are from the industry that lurk or contribute to this site. I think it's really good that these people are interested in how they are doing enough to pop onto a site like this and peruse the postings to see if they can better their own restaurants. If I opened my own shack I'd probably be the type of owner who would lurk this site to find out how I'm doing (for real).

Come on, how many people tell the honest truth when asked "how was your meal". I will admit that more times than not I will say "good.good" while I choke down the food with some wine. Sites like these are great for people like me who maybe didn't have the best time at a restaurant and want to vent and/or warn others. What better place for the owner of said establishment to read these sorts of comments and (hopefully) make some changes.

I think the most dangerous diners are the one's who have a bad time and don't say anything because you know they (and their friends) will simply stop coming back. And as an owner can you imagine suddenly losing business with no feedback? It has got to suck. It's like taking an exam, getting it back with an 'F' with absolutely no markings on the sheet. No indication what you did right or wrong.

Wait. I am totally digressing sorry

Anyways my point (if I had one to begin with) is that I don't think it seems like a good idea to covertly self-promote as it will only hurt you in the end.

[fud]

Unfortunatly, as far as I know, egullet does not have a Bullshit filter, so we all have to use our own common sense.

Yes we do. His name is Daddy-A. But sometimes he misses stuff

[sanrensho]

Many posters don't tell you they are affiliated with the 'said' space they are commenting on, and I think this poses a serious conflict of interest concerning the validity of their opinions.

You make it sound like an epidemic, but I suspect you're only talking about a few posters. Regardless, I agree with your point about transparency and consider it "good form" to reveal any such affiliations.

[chrisstearns]

Fake names and loose monikers

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Curious: is "Shiraziste" your first name, or your family name?

[Shiraziste]

Many posters don't tell you they are affiliated with the 'said' space they are commenting on, and I think this poses a serious conflict of interest concerning the validity of their opinions.

You make it sound like an epidemic, but I suspect you're only talking about a few posters. Regardless, I agree with your point about transparency and consider it "good form" to reveal any such affiliations.

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I think it's far more prevalent than most want to believe, actually I know it is........

I'm not here to OUT anyone, and I won't, but I think one should use some common sense in indicating who's their daddy here.

As well, the fishing for more responses on specific threads by those who work at those restaurants is also disturbing.

I understand it's a tuff business (more than you know), and everyone could use a little free advertising, but this is just the wrong way to do it IMHO.

Neil,

I should kiss your ass, you've been really good to my friends - but I try to send you hotel guests all the time - steering them away from pricey establishments meant to soak our lovely tourists.

PS - my man is Christian Bale, I wuv him

[Shiraziste]

Fake names and loose monikers

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Curious: is "Shiraziste" your first name, or your family name?

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It's a way of life, a worshiping, perhaps a religious experience would be a more accurate discription

[mkjr]

Fake names and loose monikers

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Curious: is "Shiraziste" your first name, or your family name?

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Nice Chris.

PS love the photos of Curacao.

[Irishgirl]

come on, how many people tell the honest truth when asked "how was your meal".  I will admit that more times than not I will say "good.good" while I choke down the food with some wine.  Sites like these are great for people like me who maybe didn't have the best time at a restaurant and want to vent and/or warn others.  What better place for the owner of said establishment to read these sorts of comments and (hopefully) make some changes.

I think the most dangerous diners are the one's who have a bad time and don't say anything because you know they (and their friends) will simply stop coming back.  And as an owner can you imagine suddenly losing business with no feedback? It has got to suck.  It's like taking an exam, getting it back with an 'F' with absolutely no markings on the sheet.  No indication what you did right or wrong. 

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This is the problem that I have....People who aren't honest in the restaurant (which is why the question "How is your meal" is asked in the first place...) and then coming on line and trashing a place. If the restaurant doesn't know that there IS a problem, how are they suppossed to fix it? There are a lot of restaurants out there who don't know about eGullet, and I don't think that this is fair to them.

So technically, this puts you in the "most Dangerous" category as far as I am concerned.

That is why I don't do "reviews".

[Daddy-A]

Unfortunatly, as far as I know, egullet does not have a Bullshit filter, so we all have to use our own common sense.

Yes we do. His name is Daddy-A. But sometimes he misses stuff

[host]

For the record: I miss NOTHING . Hosting often involves making judgement calls, and I'm making a couple now.

1) Christian Bale is off-topic. Further mentions of him or his pecs will be removed.

2) For this discussion to remain in the Vancouver/Western Canada forum, it must remain local. Continued discussion on whether or not members are obligated to "out" themselves will see this thread moved to General Food Topics.

If you need further clarification, please PM me.

Arne

[/host]

[Mooshmouse]

Fake names and loose monikers don't make it easy to point them out by those not ITB unless otherwise indicated, but I've noticed a few.

Is there not a policy in effect concerning this particular practice here ?

One would think that anyone ITB should disclose this info, either by tag-line or by a comment indicating such.

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You make it sound like an epidemic, but I suspect you're only talking about a few posters. Regardless, I agree with your point about transparency and consider it "good form" to reveal any such affiliations.

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...I try to send you hotel guests all the time - steering them away from pricey establishments meant to soak our lovely tourists.

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Many eloquent responses have already been proffered by fellow eGers; having commented on a similar issue in another thread pointed out by canucklehead, I'll let those comments stand.

Interestingly enough, however, your profile on your Wine Fanatics forum indicates that you are a "sommelier and pion [sic]". If you're asking others to put their cards on the table, perhaps you should ante up on your own suggestions and make the appropriate changes to your sigline. Just a thought.

[Andrew Morrison]

Interestingly enough, however, your profile on your Wine Fanatics forum indicates that you are a "sommelier and pion [sic]". If you're asking others to put their cards on the table, perhaps you should ante up on your own suggestions and make the appropriate changes to your sigline. Just a thought.

That would make sense....

Edited October 26, 2005 by Andrew Morrison (log)

[Matt R.]

Interestingly enough, however, your profile on your Wine Fanatics forum indicates that you are a "sommelier and pion [sic]". If you're asking others to put their cards on the table, perhaps you should ante up on your own suggestions and make the appropriate changes to your sigline. Just a thought.

That would make sense....

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When I read this thread this afternoon, I thought it had been nuked! Welcome back to Days of our eGullet ....

Seriously though, people hiding behind some internet 'handle' just screams newbie. Egullet or FileList or otherwise. You are not fooling anyone. Especially a forum so regionalized as this one!

This brings up a conversation I have been having in PM's with someone. Why don't more local people put their neck on the line and join in the conversation? That's what this is all about. Otherwise, you can save your $20+/month internet fee and just hand out anonymous comment cards at your restaurant and actually read them. All you people lurking: what you are thinking is valuable. Share it with us, make a contribution.

All you shit disturbers, don't waste your time hiding behind some user ID. It's only the internet, people don't take it *that* seriously. Do they?

-- Matt.

[Sam Salmon]

All you shit disturbers, don't waste your time hiding behind some user ID.  It's only the internet, people don't take it *that* seriously.  Do they?-- Matt.

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Matt while I understand what you're saying from time to time a person is reminded that the world outside can be a dark scary place.

We are fortunate to live in a wealthy secure country and enjoy freedoms to express ourselves in many ways on many subjects.

It wasn't always thus and may not always be thus.

Being warm cuddly and collegial is fine-a few degrees of separation is even more comfortable for some.

EDIT-as to the original question my sig line has it's origins in an ancient argument on just this subject-not pursued covertly but open shilling by a well known Forum poster.

That individual has since ceased to be so brassy but I've kept the line in remembrance.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Sam Salmon (log)

[Daddy-A]

[host]

I'm closing this thread as the discussion has run its course in terms of food and restaurants in Vancouver & Western Canada.

The regional forums on eGullet are for discussion of regional restaurants & cuisine. Period.

All other discussion belongs in General Food Topics, Food Media & News, Adventures in Eating or any of the other more generic threads.

I will consult with the hosts in General Foods and we may move the thread over there and open it.

Thanks

A.

[/host]