fresh fish in Philadelphia?

[alkonin]

i don't know where to buy seafood in philadelphia. i avoid the italian market at all costs, and am not a big fan of reading terminal. whole foods' seafood selection is, at best, not great; it is also way overpriced.

my question is, where do you find good, fresh fish in philadelphia?

[KatieLoeb]

Ippolito's in South Philadelphia is an excellent fish market. So is Seafood Unlimited on 20th Street, albeit with a small selection. The fish vendors at Reading Terminal have always been reliable for me, but if you haven't seen what you want there, I don't know what to tell you. The fish at the restaurant comes from a private purveyor, but I'll ask the chef where he purchases his fish outside of the usual channels for home use and let you know.

[herbacidal]

you can also try the markets in chinatown and the major asian markets on washington ave (at 6th, 11th and 15th) all have seafood sections.

[rlibkind]

I was going to tell you to try the Reading Terminal Market, 'til I read that you are "not a big fan" of the RTM.

Pray tell, why"? What is it about the market that off-puts you?

[mighty quinn]

not a fan of reading terminal?? blasphemy! chinatown's not bad either.

[alkonin]

not a fan of reading terminal?? blasphemy! chinatown's not bad either.

i am, admittedly, overly picky. i'm not nuts about reading terminal mainly because it isn't worth it to me to fight the crowds on a saturday to buy what i consider mediocre stuff. i haven't been there in a while due to the prolferation of farmer's markets, so i'll try again. but i have been consistently disappointed from not just the fish vendors, but from just about all of them.

as for chinatown, i go there only for vietnam palace. after dinner there on saturday as we were walking back to the car, someone who was working in one of the fish places, leaning against the doorway, spat into the store. being that i won't be able to identify the exact location, i can never buy fish in chinatown.

[rlibkind]

My Latin is a bit rusty, but Degustibus Non Disputantum : there can be no arguments in matters of taste.

That said, let me politely disagree.

While quality fishmongers can be found here and there through the city, including D'Arigo's at the Ninth Street Market, few offer the consistent quality and wide variety of the three vendors at the Reading Terminal Market. Like any other fresh food vendor, quality varies with season and species, but I find that if I'm set on fish I can always find very fresh specimens at the RTM. And this goes well beyond farm raised salmon, which any purveyor can offer reasonably fresh with hardly an effort, just good refrigeration.

I feel your pain about Saturdays at the RTM. I'm fortunate in that I'm free to shop any day of the week and any time, but even on Saturdays, if you finish shopping before 10:30 a.m. it's quite manageable. After that, it's Grand Central Terminal. I find Thursdays and Fridays before the lunch rush are ideal times, particularly to shop for fish.

I know of few places where you can get better produce than at the Reading Terminal Market. On Saturdays, Earl Livengood offers quality produce at the same (fairly high) prices as he does at the South & Passyunk market on Tuesdays and a few of the other local farmers' markets. The Fair Food Project, at the RTM on Fridays, offers a wide variety of produce, dairy product and meats from a variety of regional farms, some of whom market directly at the smaller farmer markets.

I buy from both the Fair Food Project and Earl Livengood, but much of my produce shopping is done at Iovine's. The two brothers who own Iovine have developed direct relationships with farmers in PA and NJ so, as much as they are able, they bypass the wholesale market. That said, because of their volume and knowledge of produce, the Iovine's command respect when they do pick up the bulk of their merchandise at the wholesale market. They are priced way better than supermarkets and offer far superior quality. And where else in Philadelphia are you going to find salicornia?

The area of meats is one where the RTM is strong, but can be equalled elsewhere. The exception is Harry Ochs where, if you can afford it (I usually consult the loan officer at the bank before buying any), the dry aged prime steaks are unsurpassed. (Just try to find USDA prime elsewhere; you can, but it's not easy.) That said, although I'm not a huge fan of Whole Foods, I do find their red meats quite good. Poultry is another area where, although the RTM offers excellent quality and prices, other markets can compete. Still, it's hard to beat the selection at Godshall's. And in how many other places can you find Muscovy duck? Not your local Acme.

Please understand, I'm not saying that every single item of fish, meat or produce you find at the RTM is uniformly perfect. The RTM caters to a varied clientele, at varied price and quality levels. But be picky, as you claim to be, and you'll find plenty of good, wholesome, fresh, tasty food at the RTM.

Do yourself a favor, and try, try again.

[herbacidal]

as for chinatown, i go there only for vietnam palace.  after dinner there on saturday as we were walking back to the car, someone who was working in one of the fish places, leaning against the doorway, spat into the store. being that i won't be able to identify the exact location, i can never buy fish in chinatown.

so you're against spitting, or that he spat into the store?

[alkonin]

so you're against spitting, or that he spat into the store?

both.

[herbacidal]

in that case, i can say you won't like most of china, in that respect.

[alkonin]

ew. thanks for the heads-up.

[Mottmott]

The exception is Harry Ochs where, if you can afford it (I usually consult the loan officer at the bank before buying any), the dry aged prime steaks are unsurpassed. (Just try to find USDA prime elsewhere; you can, but it's not easy.)

I get some good pricy meat at d'Angelo on 9th St, too.

ALKronin, Just out of curiosity where did you used to shop?

[alkonin]

I get some good pricy meat at d'Angelo on 9th St, too.

ALKronin, Just out of curiosity where did you used to shop?

d'angelo's is very good. pricey, though. my husband questions the integrity of a toupe-wearing butcher, so we don't go there all that often.

anyway,

we've been living in philadelphia for about a year and a half. for the first few months, we shopped almost exclusively at either the super fresh at 10 & south or reading terminal. that changed after i found a decent produce store (jin's, on 20th just above chestnut), and we started shopping at whole foods. we'd buy most of our produce from jin's, pantry stuff, chicken and beef from whole foods, and occasionally fish, though it's too expensive and not of the best quality (previoously frozen, occasionally stinky). now we're getting the small amount of pantry stuff we need from trader joe's (but not their pasta), produce and meats are still primarily coming from jin's and whole foods, as well as from the farmer's markets. i am pretty happy with this set up, but need a place to get good fish at a reasonable price.

i do intend to try reading terminal again, based on suggestions, and am happy to pursue other avenues as well, though chinatown is unfortunately out.

[mrbigjas]

Jin's rules for one reason: they nearly always have ripe avocados (the except being this past Saturday). If you're having a mexican kinda dinner and you didn't plan your avocado purchasing three days in advance like you need to for 99% of supermarket avocados, this is a great thing.

D'Angelo's has truly great sausages. He also carries that Wagyu beef, but I haven't been able to bring myself to spend $25 a pound for meat yet. YET. I'll get a nice steak from there of these days.

[Holly Moore]

d'angelo's is very good.  pricey, though.  my husband questions the integrity of a toupe-wearing butcher, so we don't go there all that often. 

I've been a regular at Sonny D'Angelo's for years and can say two things. I never noticed he wears a toupee. I'm spending all my time checking out the sausages and pates and such. And there is no butcher I know of that cares more about his product. I can trust him with all my meat requirements.

That said, and I've told Sonny, I wish he had not switched from the dry aged beef he was carrying (I'm assuming Wells though maybe he ages it himself) to the Wagyu Beef. Dollar for dollar the stuff he used to carry out classes Wagyu and since he's selling the Wagyu for about 50% more than he got for the dry aged beef, I'm not seeing the value. Which sucks, because Sonny D'Angelos is the only butcher I know who was selling aged beef. Not sure if Harry Oaches does. Don't remember seeing it.

There's always certified Angus at the Chef's Market. Very good, but not dry-aged.

As to fish, I never thought I'd be saying this, but I've switched from buying fresh in the Italian Market to frozen at Trader Joes. The prices can't be beat, and the quality is outstanding.

[rlibkind]

Nothing wrong with frozen fish, at either Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. (I also find the fresh fish at Whole Foods exorbitantly priced, though the quality has improved somewhat over the past two years). In fact, I love the tiny (maybe 3/4-inch long, tops) Canadian frozen shrimp (cooked and devined) in the freezer case at Whole Foods (not the awful thawed out shrimp or the individual frozen ones in the reach-in case). They're prefect for a quick pasta topping with garlic and oil, or as shrimp salad. Just be sure never to cook them other than to briefly heat them up. Great value, too, at something like $5 or $6 a pound.

As for dry aged beef, yes, Harry Ochs carries it -- at a price. As an example, this past weekend he had aged Delmonicos (rib eye steaks) for, I believe $12 a pound. He had dry aged rib steaks (with bone) for $15 or $16 a pound. Reason: The more expenive dry aged ribs hang at least four weeks before they're cut.

When I worked in center city, I used Jim's regularly and found it quite satisfactory. But where Iovine has the advantage is that they have developed direct relationships with some local farmers for at least some of their produce. Jin's, I'm fairly certain, relies entirely on the wholesale markets. As for the ripe avocados, if you normally can find them ripe at Jin's I would suspect they have an awful lot that have to discard for going over the edge into battery acid territory.

[mrbigjas]

As for dry aged beef, yes, Harry Ochs carries it -- at a price. As an example, this past weekend he had aged Delmonicos (rib eye steaks) for, I believe $12 a pound. He had dry aged rib steaks (with bone) for $15 or $16 a pound. Reason: The more expenive dry aged ribs hang at least four weeks before they're cut.

And those prices have gone way up with the beef shortage currently. Dry-aged porterhouse used to be $12.99 a pound, and now it's $15.99. Aged strip steaks used to be $10 a pound, and now they're $13--delmonicos were $9, and now they're $12 or so. With all the articles he has laminated and hanging there, I assume it's due to the beef prices. But it's making buying that fancy beef more painful--the flank steaks are up to like $10 a pound now.

Jin's, I'm fairly certain, relies entirely on the wholesale markets. As for the ripe avocados, if you normally can find them ripe at Jin's I would suspect they have an awful lot that have to discard for going over the edge into battery acid territory.

Goddammit, make me back up my hyperbolic statements with facts, willya? OK here's the deal: in the past couple of months, when I've gone there, they've generally had avocados that are pretty ripe. They're not dead ripe; they could use a day, or two maybe if you put them in the fridge, but they're plenty ripe for mashing into guacamole, and even for just eating as is. Would you want them a little riper? In a perfect world, sure. But they're definitely usable that day. Except for this past Saturday, when all they had were super hard ones.

[rlibkind]

Yup, mrbigjas. we both have a big beef about the price of prime, dry aged beef. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. For an occasional steak, it still beats the price at a steakhouse. For hamburgers, I'll spend the extra bucks ($5 or $5.50 a pound) for the angus organics frozen ground beef sold by the Fair Food project, but when it comes to making chili or pasta sauce, well, then good ol' ground chuck at three pounds for $5 is my meat.

And watch out for those hyperbolic statements!

I find that anything with avocados takes at least a little planning or taking advantage of opportunity. I tend to check them out every trip I make to the produce vendor, and when I see them ripe or close to ripe, I pick up a few for either guacamole or another use (as a dressing mixed with yogurt or mayo for chicken salad, it's superb).

[Lisa1349]

I checked out RTM for the first time this week. I drooled over the cookbook place and the used bookstore. The cutesey kitchen accesory place was fun to look at. I noted vastly different prices between the fish vendors, but quality seemed very high. Produce prices high as well, as were prices at the DownTown Cheese Co, though, I am biased! (DiBrunos, my employer, rules!)

A few weeks ago I came across a store called 'Fish & Coffee' and they had a reasonable selection at what I consider low prices for fish and the line of La Colombe Coffee. This all confused me. It's on Chestnut and 21st. I went last week and it was more of an Asian market now, smaller fish selection, coffee not present.

In the immediate Rittenhouse, I have no other location for fish to buy after work.

Lisa

[herbacidal]

Lisa, the former Midori Mart moved in with Fish and Coffee.

I commented previously here.

[Mottmott]

I get some good pricy meat at d'Angelo on 9th St, too.

ALKronin, Just out of curiosity where did you used to shop?

d'angelo's is very good. pricey, though. my husband questions the integrity of a toupe-wearing butcher, so we don't go there all that often.

anyway,

we've been living in philadelphia for about a year and a half. for the first few months, we shopped almost exclusively at either the super fresh at 10 & south or reading terminal. that changed after i found a decent produce store (jin's, on 20th just above chestnut), and we started shopping at whole foods. we'd buy most of our produce from jin's, pantry stuff, chicken and beef from whole foods, and occasionally fish, though it's too expensive and not of the best quality (previoously frozen, occasionally stinky). now we're getting the small amount of pantry stuff we need from trader joe's (but not their pasta), produce and meats are still primarily coming from jin's and whole foods, as well as from the farmer's markets. i am pretty happy with this set up, but need a place to get good fish at a reasonable price.

i do intend to try reading terminal again, based on suggestions, and am happy to pursue other avenues as well, though chinatown is unfortunately out.

What I really meant, but didn't say, was what city did you shop in that had such a better selection.

[rlibkind]

I, too, am sometimes taken aback by the different prices of the RTM fish vendors for waht appears, at least to the eye, to be similar quality fish. I don't find the prices on the fish to be uniformly high, though. They are almost universally at least a couple dollars a pound less than what you'll find at Whole Foods, and while supermarkets may sell some fish at lower prices, the quality is way below my standards.

As for Downtown Cheese, yes, the prices can be high. I don't get to DiBruno's as regularly, but the prices there seem slightly (very slightly) less dear.

Did you check out Iovine's for produce? Their prices are usually quite competitive.

[vw8v]

As far as beef, I really like Godshall's in the Chestnut Hill Farmer's Market. Really wonderful filets and excellent bacon (though I haven't had the scrapple that was recently written up in the NYTimes yet)

Next to them is Neidermeyer's Poultry - EXCELLENT chicken.

I too, haven't found great fish in/around the city. There is a large selection of 'fresh' fish up at the Korean supermarket (Han a reum) -up on Cheltenham & 611. It isn't the greatest, but they always have good selections of mackeral - and the sushi-type salmon is OK. (The tuna isn't usually great) For home sushi, we end up making the trek to the Mitsuwa Japanese Market in New Jersey (up in Fort Lee).

I'd love to find a better choice for fish - along the lines of the Neidermeyer's Chicken or Godshall's Meats.

[SG-]

so you're against spitting, or that he spat into the store?

both.

Personally I find that most of the best stuff that's not overpriced tends to be in the grittiest / realistic market environments. ie. chinatown, italian market or other wet markets in general (ie fulton).

Once you move them to more sterile environments like RTM and Whole foods the clientele tends to get watered down and prices go up in tandem.

In general fish quality for regular consumers in philly is dismal, ever tried shopping for diver scallops ?? Usually when I go shopping I have to trek through several destinations chinatown, korean markets, whole foods etc depending on what I'm looking for.

Some recent gems were live spot shrimp, bass, cod, manila clams and blood cockles in Chinatown; live geoduck, cockles, pre shelled fresh sea urchin at Han Ah Rheum, skate and mullet at Vietnamese markets in South Philly, generally paying an arm and a leg for wild salmon at whole foods.

The other alternative is mail order which I am still not ready to make the plunge.

[rlibkind]

Whole Foods is sterile. RTM is merely sanitary.

Besides, Golden at RTM offers dry scallops at $9.99/pound. They're not diver scallops, but they good and good value.