French Food, Fat and Big Meals: Cultural

[markk]

A friend of mine has been having trouble sleeping lately and his doctor gave him some brand new, supposedly "wonder" sleeping pill that's now advertised on tv.

When he picked it up at the pharmacy, they had put a bright yellow sticker on the bottle that he had never seen before and he thought of me and showed it to me. The sticker says:

"Fatty foods may reduce the effectiveness of this drug. Avoid fatty foods while taking this medication."

So my question is --- Do you think the pharmacists in France even have this sticker ???

[Gifted Gourmet]

Gemfibrozil suggests that you avoid fatty foods, which decrease the drug's efficacy in lowering cholesterol, but that isn't a sleeping pill. Only someone in France may know the answer to your query, markk ...

[markk]

Well I suspected in this case that it had to do with absorption, but I was asking jokingly as in do you think they even bother with this sticker in France, where of course if you consume less than 2 litres of wine a day you're allowed to say legally that you don't drink (etc., etc.)

[Bux]

Well I suspected in this case that it had to do with absorption, but I was asking jokingly as in do you think they even bother with this sticker in France, where of course if you consume less than 2 litres of wine a day you're allowed to say legally that you don't drink (etc., etc.)

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I'm wondering if this whole thread isn't just promoting a stereotype based on myth or, at best, an out of date cultural misunderstanding. The first time I traveled in France I noticed signs in bars prohibiting the consumption of alcohol by minors. In the rural area of the Languedoc where friends lilve and where we have to drive to get to the nearest decent restaurant, we're always conscious of the fact that any back road may have a road block after dinner simply to check that driver's are not under the influence. Thus our driver is the one of us who's only had one glass of wine.

I'm not aware of any law in the US that would prohibit anyone who consumes two liters of whisky from saying he doesn't drink, either. At least the typical drunken Frenchman is less likely to be carring a loaded gun, if you get my drift.

[Carlsbad]

From my experience with French pharmacies, I think the pharmacist would more likely personally explain any limitations in diet recommended for whatever medications are being dispensed. You would also be out of there in 5 minutes and not pay an arm and a leg for the medicine.

[John Talbott]

In the rural area of the Languedoc where friends lilve and where we have to drive to get to the nearest decent restaurant, we're always conscious of the fact that any back road may have a road block after dinner simply to check that driver's are not under the influence. Thus our driver is the one of us who's only had one glass of wine.

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There is pretty good evidence that with road-blocks, radar guns, speed cameras, breatholizers (their level is much less than ours) and careful observation the French have really cut down on driving while under the influence. I reported a while back on the introduction of wine "doggy bags;" it's a practical solution to feeling one must finish the bottle.

[markk]

WHOA !!! Hold on everbody...

I started this thread totally in jest - please read the initial post again.

Nobody loves France or the French people more than I do, and this was about fatty foods, not alcohol.

And yes I am well aware of the campaigns against alcohol abuse, and I see the message "L'abus d'alcool est dangereux pour la santé, à consommer avec modération" on the bottom of the page of every ad for wine in my monthly Gault Millau magazine.

It just struck me funny to see a sticker on a prescription bottle about not eating fatty foods with it, and I thought jokingly of France. And indeed I have been in French pharmacies on extended stays where I've had to fill prescriptions from the US, and I know that the medicine is literally one-tenth the price over there (sometimes even less) and that the pharmacy experience takes under a minute - they give you the item, stamp your prescription "used" with the date and name of the pharmacy, and that's that.

I assure you, I meant the fatty food question in the spirit of fun. But if I were in France and had that medicine to take, I can't imagine when in the day I would be able to, if ever.

Are we okay now? I hope so.

[Ptipois]

It just struck me funny to see a sticker on a prescription bottle about not eating fatty foods with it, and I thought jokingly of France.

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I still fail to see why you did. Was it because you think that the French diet is particularly fatty, by any chance?

Edited September 19, 2005 by Ptipois (log)

[markk]

It just struck me funny to see a sticker on a prescription bottle about not eating fatty foods with it, and I thought jokingly of France.

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I still fail to see why you did. Was it because you think that the French diet is particularly fatty, by any chance?

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It's a little "rich", yes.

But I mean that in a good way.

When I'm in France, my dinner usually consists of two foie gras courses (cold and hot) , then at least several parts of a duck or pigeon(like the breast and thighs), or a platter of Choucroute Garni, then some cheese and some dessert.

If I had to take a pill that said to avoid fatty foods when taking it, I don't know when I'd be able to fit one while in France. Can I say that I mean that lightheartedly, as well?

Edited September 19, 2005 by markk (log)

[Bux]

. . . .

But I mean that in a good way.

When I'm in France, my dinner usually consists of two foie gras courses (cold and hot) , then at least several parts of a duck or pigeon(like the breast and thighs), or a platter of Choucroute Garni, then some cheese and some dessert.

. . . .

Can I say that I mean that lightheartedly, as well?

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Only if you're willing to prepared to argue that it's less rich than the typical American lunch of a double cheese burger with fries washed down with a milk shake and that Americans, generally eat that day in and day out, will anyone concede that your proposed meal is anything like what any Frenchman would put together in one day, let alone in one meal. Either way, I fail to see the humor. My guess is that the average Frenchman eats a hell of a lot more fish than his counterpart in the US. Have you ever thought to study the fat content in the typical deli meat sold in an American supermarket. It would make the richest rillettes seem like chicken breast. The French aren't in the habit of starting the morning off with a couple of eggs fried in butter and some bacon or bagel loaded with cream cheese either. The humor's not there, not because it's offensive, but because it doesn't hit close enough to reality to be funny.

[markk]

Only if you're willing to prepared to argue that it's less rich than the typical American lunch of a double cheese burger with fries washed down with a milk shake and that Americans, generally eat that day in and day out

Oh My Lord, who would eat a meal as unhealthy as that ?!?!?!

At least we know from Serge Renaud's 1991 study, "The French Paradox" that the duck fat contained in the foie gras and duck are heart-healthy (and the New York Times's front-page article that week "Foie Gras Goes to the Heart of Health") and that the meal I showed is good for you.

The one you're describing is a heart attack on a plate! Who would eat that?

I think that you make a good point, though. My point was intended to be a humorous one, the association of "richness" with French food, and I kind of stand by it for the humor that I think it has. I'd be curious to know, does anybody reading this thread from the top think that my first post was humorous?

But you raise a teriffic point of course, that the amount of saturated fat, trans fats, and cholesterol hidden in American fast foods, and processed foods, are genuinely deadly. I for one don't eat them - fast food, or processed food, of any kind, that is.

In France, although this is changing of course, there's still a lot of natural food to be found, and a diet of such food, lots of bread, and fish, and of course, even a lot of duck and foie gras, is still healthier than what people eat in America. (Strangely, I don't think I've ever been served a green vegetable in Alsace - oh, maybe a pea or an asparagus spear to decorate the plate, but in all the meals I eat as witnessed by the photos in the link in my sig, there could be more green vegetables, but that is probably a regional oddity.)

But I thought the initial post was humorous, and I'm hoping there will be at least one or two gulleteers who agree?

[Ptipois]

It's a little "rich", yes.

But I mean that in a good way.

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What you mean is that your diet, when you are in France, is fatty. Which is a different thing than saying that the French diet is fatty. For your information, nobody in France eats foie gras, rich sauces, aged cheeses, etc., every day, or they're dead already. And contrary to a belief that I've sometime found expressed here, the daily diet of the French no longer includes things cooked in fonds and jus, cream sauces are not that common, and our food doesn't soak in butter. It should be pointed out (I didn't think it was necessary) that the diet of a country is not accurately represented by its restaurant food, let alone by the fattiest food its restaurants still serve. So there was no way I could get your joke.

[anzu]

As far as the first post goes: I was left wondering if you were trying to say that the American diet is so much fattier than the French diet that a warning is more necessary in the US.

Either way, not funny, I'm afraid (seeing as you did ask).

As far as never having been served green vegetables in Alsace - are you not even counting the choucroute you mentioned?? Cabbage counts as a green vegetable in my book, and I believe that the pickling process actually improves the nutrition available to the human body.

Furthermore, go into any market or supermarket in Alsace, and people are buying vegetables. They are certainly going to be doing something with them...

[Ptipois]

When I'm in France, my dinner usually consists of two foie gras courses (cold and hot) , then at least several parts of a duck or pigeon(like the breast and thighs), or a platter of Choucroute Garni, then some cheese and some dessert.

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I'd be curious to know of any place in France that would actually serve you a meal like this one.

At least we know from Serge Renaud's 1991 study, "The French Paradox" that the duck fat contained in the foie gras and duck are heart-healthy (and the New York Times's front-page article that week "Foie Gras Goes to the Heart of Health")

I always enjoy these little books or articles that, now and then, exploit the marronnier (run to your favorite French slang online dictionary, friends) of the "French paradox", "French mystery" or the "Mediterranean paradox" or the "Cretan miracle" or whatever. They are always based on the statement that the populations they describe do not eat like normal people, but...

Oh, and there are plenty of vegetables, including green vegetables, in the Alsatian diet. To refine on the choucroute issue, other vegetables are pickled this way, not only cabbage : turnips and green beans for instance. Just hopping from one rich-food restaurant to another while in France is bound to give you a very altered opinion of how the French really eat.

[rooftop1000]

In the last French meal I ate the only thing that didnt have butter or duck fat in it was dessert ....that had cream.....

I thought it was funny....

but I havent been to France

T

[dimsum]

But I thought the initial post was humorous, and I'm hoping there will be at least one or two gulleteers who agree?

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Markk, I vote for funny -- and for not taking our food, ourselves, or any things or places with which we identify quite so seriously.

Edited September 20, 2005 by dimsum (log)

[chefzadi]

Another one of these threads?

Shall I share some observations about what "American people" eat based on eating out in America? I can do it with humour, it will have the French certainly rolling in the aisles.

I'm really tempted to write a parody of Anglophone articles on French dining habits. All in fun.

[markk]

Another one of these threads?

Shall I share some observations about what "American people" eat based on eating out in America? I can do it with humour, it will have the French certainly rolling in the aisles.

Absolutely, positively you should, most definitely. And I'm sure it'll have me rolling in the aisles as well. What fun's life if we can't poke fun at ourselves and the things we love, especially such obsessions as food and gluttony!

[Ptipois]

Markk, I vote for funny -- and for not taking our food, ourselves, or any things or places with which we identify quite so seriously.

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For a joke to be funny, it needs to reflect reality in some way. This one wasn't offending anyone or hitting anyone's serious buttons, it just failed to refer to anything real. That's all.

[dimsum]

Markk, I vote for funny -- and for not taking our food, ourselves, or any things or places with which we identify quite so seriously.

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For a joke to be funny, it needs to reflect reality in some way. This one wasn't offending anyone or hitting anyone's serious buttons, it just failed to refer to anything real. That's all.

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Well, if not something real, perhaps it was mean to reflect the preconceived notions some people do have about French food. But not me, of course. French food? Fatty? Wherever do people get such crazy ideas!?

[reinholdt]

my wife asked the server if she could just have a plate of vegetables. "Pas de problème" was the reply. He did return with a beautiful plate of vegetables . . . swimming in butter and cream sauces.

Are you sure that was France? I heard that they don't have either of those there.

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When a woman sated with rich French food asks for a simple plate of steamed vegatables and they bring them drenched in killer butter and cream, that's where people get the idea that French food is deadly-rich. And in fact, historically, France is famous for its butter-laden pastries, it's cream sauces, and its rich, fatty foods. Have you never heard of Escoffier? Have you never read Waverly Root? Have you never dined in a Michelin 3-starred restaurant?

Sure, now in the new milenium, French people are undoubtedly just as worried about obesity and heart disease as their American counterparts. But the only difference in their traditional diets is that the American diet, while eschewing such foods as cream and butter, is in fact higher in the hidden fats that are worse artery-clogging killers as saturated fats and trans-fats, fooling people by the printed claims "Low in Cholesterol", while the traditional French fare, famous for its high in butter and cream delights, may now be something that French people are shying away from for health reasons. But traditionally, everybody has always associated French food with a rich diet laden with Normandy butter and cream, and with the good reason that these ingredients are natrual, and soul-nourishingly delicious.

[JasonTrue]

Oh, I always thought the difference was that a croissant in France averages 50-80 grams (2-3 ounces) and in the US they seem to start at about 150 grams (at least 5 ounces, or 1/3 lb).

Sure, now in the new milenium, French people are undoubtedly just as worried about obesity and heart disease as their American counterparts.  But the only difference in their traditional diets is that the American diet, while eschewing such foods as cream and butter, is in fact higher in the hidden fats that are worse artery-clogging killers as saturated fats and trans-fats, fooling people by the printed claims "Low in Cholesterol", while the traditional French fare, famous for its high in butter and cream delights, may now be something that French people are shying away from for health reasons.  But traditionally, everybody has always associated French food with a rich diet laden with Normandy butter and cream, and with the good reason that these ingredients are natrual, and soul-nourishingly delicious.

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[markk]

Nevermind

This will go nowhere.

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No - I meant it entirely in a joking manner, and in a spirit of fun.

I'm Jewish, and grew up with that cuisine - and loving it!...

But the standard jokes are about how 'heavy' and 'indigestible' that cuisine is, and I agree, and laugh all the way to the kitchen until I give myself indigestion.

I know that you're French, Chef Zadi, and I promise you that I travel frequently to France for the sole pleaure and privilege of eating French food for a few weeks at a time. Sure, I don't have to order foie gras every night, but I do, because I primarily can't get it as good, or as deliciously prepared here as I can in France.

And I order lots of rich, fatty foods in restaurants because I specifically don't go on vacation tø diet!

I also dont' actually go on vacation to visit museums, or see sights, as many people do. I go on vacation to eat, and France is my destination of choice. While many people plan their trips using guidebooks that tell them every museum and 'sight' to see, I research my trips based on restaurants - those which will have 'local' cuisine, those which will have 'haute' cuisine, those whose descriptions interest me. And I spend my days in France wandering whatever city or town I'm in, visiting food stores, cheese stores, wine stores, supermarkets and hypermarkets, and when I see intersting sights along the way, I do stop and enjoy them.

So when I talked about the tradition of French food being fatty, I meant no disrespect whatsoever, only love and admiration.

Well, I can't explain it better than that. I hope that rings true to you, because indeed it was meant that way. And yes, of course you should post your humorous stories. I could tell you a lot of funny stories in return, and in fact, if you post yours, I'll post mine.

[chefzadi]

Nevermind

This will go nowhere.

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No - I meant it entirely in a joking manner, and in a spirit of fun.

I'm Jewish, and grew up with that cuisine - and loving it!...

But the standard jokes are about how 'heavy' and 'indigestible' that cuisine is, and I agree, and laugh all the way to the kitchen until I give myself indigestion.

I know that you're French, Chef Zadi, and I promise you that I travel frequently to France for the sole pleaure and privilege of eating French food for a few weeks at a time. Sure, I don't have to order foie gras every night, but I do, because I primarily can't get it as good, or as deliciously prepared here as I can in France.

And I order lots of rich, fatty foods in restaurants because I specifically don't go on vacation tø diet!

I also dont' actually go on vacation to visit museums, or see sights, as many people do. I go on vacation to eat, and France is my destination of choice. While many people plan their trips using guidebooks that tell them every museum and 'sight' to see, I research my trips based on restaurants - those which will have 'local' cuisine, those which will have 'haute' cuisine, those whose descriptions interest me. And I spend my days in France wandering whatever city or town I'm in, visiting food stores, cheese stores, wine stores, supermarkets and hypermarkets, and when I see intersting sights along the way, I do stop and enjoy them.

So when I talked about the tradition of French food being fatty, I meant no disrespect whatsoever, only love and admiration.

Well, I can't explain it better than that. I hope that rings true to you, because indeed it was meant that way. And yes, of course you should post your humorous stories. I could tell you a lot of funny stories in return, and in fact, if you post yours, I'll post mine.

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Mark,

My comment wasn't directed at you. I've always enjoyed your posts and I think you have an easy going sense of humour like me.

email me chefzadi AT gmail DOT com and I will let you in on the inner secrets.

EDIT: For the public record, one more time. I was born in France. My parents are from Algeria. I am Algerian. I am also French. I am culturally very confused.

Edited September 21, 2005 by chefzadi (log)

[Behemoth]

Strangely, I don't think I've ever been served a green vegetable in Alsace -

That's cause they're German, dude.

(Running away before Farid, Ptipois and a few assorted Germans give me a well-deserved ass-kicking... )