ISO: [HOUSTON] Duck Tongues?

[greensNbeans]

Looking for a place that will supply duck tongues and are they sold fresh or frozen? I ask because most tongue products are sold frozen because they are so perishable. Anybody got any information on this?

[Kent Wang]

I can't remember if Hong Kong Supermarket in Houston sells them frozen or not. I'm 60% sure they're fresh, though they may have been frozen sometime during shipping.

Are you making a Chinese dish? I am not aware of any other cuisines that use duck tongues. My mom makes them either steamed (more Cantonese style) or "with a red sauce" (pinyin: hong3 shao1) (more Beijing style). One of my favorite signature Chinese dishes.

[greensNbeans]

I can't remember if Hong Kong Supermarket in Houston sells them frozen or not. I'm 60% sure they're fresh, though they may have been frozen sometime during shipping.

Are you making a Chinese dish? I am not aware of any other cuisines that use duck tongues. My mom makes them either steamed (more Cantonese style) or "with a red sauce" (pinyin: hong3 shao1) (more Beijing style). One of my favorite signature Chinese dishes.

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No, I am opening a new "progressive American" restaurant in downtown and want to serve them but I don't know where to get them. I first used them in Chicago at Tru Restaurant and would love to include them on my menu for the fall. I will check out the Hong Kong Market - Thanks for the info!

[FoodMan]

I have seen them fresh I think at Hong Kong Market and I've seen them frozen at a couple other Asian markets. They do not look that appetizing to me and I've never thought of trying them let alone cooking them myself, but I could be persuaded

Chef- How are you planning on cooking them? You might be one of the first chefs at a fine dining establishment in Houston to serve them. I've certainly never encountered them outside of a Chinese shop in Chinatown. How do they fit on your menu?

Elie

[greensNbeans]

I have seen them fresh I think at Hong Kong Market and I've seen them frozen at a couple other Asian markets. They do not look that appetizing to me and I've never thought of trying them let alone cooking them myself, but I could be persuaded

Chef- How are you planning on cooking them? You might be one of the first chefs at a fine dining establishment in Houston to serve them. I've certainly never encountered them outside of a Chinese shop in Chinatown. How do they fit on your menu?

Elie

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You might be correct about being the first to try it, but without expeirmention we can't be exposed to new things. At Tru, Chef Tramonto fried them crisp and served it with many "duck items". I plan on using them by quickly blanching and shocking (removes any impurities that may be present) and frying in a tempura batter and serving them at the bar as a quick snack and I too will showcase them with many other "duck items" on the menus - they are very versitle. I always find the Hong Kong Markets to be extremely inspiring and it is a playground of many different tastes and textures! This is only the beginning ...

[Kent Wang]

Please keep us updated re: your venture. Is Tru in Chicago New/Progressive American as well? I'm curious as to what extent duck tongues have broken out of Chinese cuisine.

I've only seen duck tongues sold with the bone in. Do you debone it or serve it as is? I'm not sure frying would be the best as it's all about the texture. I feel that the texture of the batter would overwhelm the tongue. Your best bet may be a thick sauce of some kind. I'm not a pro, of course, so perhaps your instinct is more keen than mine. I can ask my mother for a her "red sauce" Shanghai/Beijing style recipe if you like. It's very simple, really highlights the tongues and may be a good starting point for experimentation.

For those that have never tried it, it's probably one of the most accessible of the "exotic" Chinese ingredients, probably more so than say duck gizzards, tripe, sea cucumber, pig ear, etc.

Speaking of which, have you tried duck gizzards? A wonderful gamey taste, not too tough or chewy either. That description doesn't really do it justice, but let me say that I like it more than chicken gizzards. I can give you a good stir fry recipe if you're interested. It's rather home-style and maybe unfit for a restaurant but I'm sure you can figure out how to improve it from there.

[FoodMan]

I have only seen them cooked on the bone (aka beak ) as part of dim sum, but never thought to order them.

Kent, this thread can be used to keep track of greensNbeans' venture. Please post any specific queries about the restaurant over there.

Elie

[greensNbeans]

Kent - I welcome any recipes that you may have, I will try anything. Tru in Chicago has coined their cuisine as "French with a sense of humor" trurestaurant.com check it out for yourself - Gale and Rick are very important people in the culinary movement in the US.

as for the "bones" - they are removed

yes - I love gizzards of all kinds

American cuisine to me means that I can use any ingredients that I may find here, because America is truly the world's melting pot! The progresive part comes from applications and techniques that we use in the kitchen.

[greensNbeans]

I am not sure if it is actually the bone or beak but I believe that it is cartilage that needs to be removed -

[FoodMan]

I am not sure if it is actually the bone or beak but I believe that it is cartilage that needs to be removed -

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I think it is the beak, here's how Robb Walsh describes eating them in his article The Xiu Mai Super Bowl about Fung's Kitchen Dim Sum:

The duck tongues didn't do much for us. You hold them by the bony outside of the bill and attempt to nibble the little bits of meat from where the mouth cavity used to be. The meat is so heavily flavored with the cinnamon, cloves and anise of the five-spice powder it's cooked with that you can barely taste anything else.

[greensNbeans]

I am not sure if it is actually the bone or beak but I believe that it is cartilage that needs to be removed -

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I think it is the beak, here's how Robb Walsh describes eating them in his article The Xiu Mai Super Bowl about Fung's Kitchen Dim Sum:

The duck tongues didn't do much for us. You hold them by the bony outside of the bill and attempt to nibble the little bits of meat from where the mouth cavity used to be. The meat is so heavily flavored with the cinnamon, cloves and anise of the five-spice powder it's cooked with that you can barely taste anything else.

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It is a shame that he did not enjoy them - but this is a good example of having a bad expeirence with something once and never trying it again. I don't think people can base an opinion on one expeirence, he even said that it was flavored with too much clove and annise to enjoy. This reminds me of what Thomas Keller says about foie in his cookbook - people say they don't like foie because they had it once and it was probally not done correctly - It also reminds of when people say that they don't like fish because it tastes "fishy", well they have not had fresh fish.

[fifi]

It is a shame that he did not enjoy them - but this is a good example of having a bad expeirence with something once and never trying it again. 

. . .

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I am quite sure that Robb will try it again. There isn't much that puts him off.

[greensNbeans]

It is a shame that he did not enjoy them - but this is a good example of having a bad expeirence with something once and never trying it again. 

. . .

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I am quite sure that Robb will try it again. There isn't much that puts him off.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I understand that Mr. Walsh will try things agian. Unfortunatly, those who have read or seen negitive things may stay away. It's good to know that not much puts him off. I know that I will be offering numerous items that are not the "norm". I just hope he enjoys it.

[greensNbeans]

I forgot to mention how much I appriecate the input on this subject - thanks!

[greensNbeans]

How about that recipe, Kent? I can try it out this weekend!

[Kent Wang]

"Hong Shao" (red sauce style) is a primarily Beijing style that is modified by Shanghai cooks with the addition of sugar. For 1lb tongues, simmer in 1 cup soy sauce and 2tbsp sugar. The sugar may seem surprising but it will help thicken the sauce and "synergize" with the soy sauce.

Here's an explanation of the phenomenon I wrote for Wikipedia.

The use of sugar is common in Shanghainese cuisine and, especially when used in combination with soy sauce, effuses foods and sauces with a taste that is not so much sweet but rather savory. A typical Shanghai household will consume sugar at the same rate as soy sauce, even excluding pastry baking. Non-natives tend to have difficulty identifying this usage of sugar and are often surprised when told of the "secret ingredient."

Simmering the tongues will also dissolve a lot of the collagen and thereby thicken the sauce even more. You may also want to add a bit of anise seed into the sauce, but just a tiny bit. In Xi'an, near Beijing, they like to put tons of anise and coriander into everything. This is a very acquired taste, one that I have yet to acquire, so do not overdo the anise, coriander and other spices. After simmering for 15 minutes or more your sauce should be a rich brown with a hint of red, quite thick and a little sticky (from the collagen).

[Bux]

. . . .

as for the "bones" - they are removed

. . . .

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I've had an exceptionally fine meal at Tru on a trip to Chicago some years ago.

Duck tongue has always interested me, simply beause I've loved veal, beef and lamb's tongue. I've resisted ordering it in a Chinese restaurant simply because it seems too tedious to eat because of the "bone." I admire the patience of Chinese diners who get the tastiest morsals from around the bone when eating duck, squab, etc., and I notice I leave so much more meat.

I'm curious about the work involved in "deboning" the tongues in the kitchen and what sort of recipes they used to cook the tongues at Tru. Did they deep fry them as you plan on doing?

[greensNbeans]

Thank you very much Kent - I will try it on sunday - Today I have to watch the Notre Dame game - IRISH!

[Kent Wang]

I admire the patience of Chinese diners who get the tastiest morsals from around the bone when eating duck, squab, etc., and I notice I leave so much more meat.

I've noticed that Western foods are often strictly limited to items that are easier to eat. For example, the prevalence of filets. Growing up eating Chinese foods, I feel that I'm a lot more skilled at eating boned foods, using my mouth to seperate the bones from the meat. I suppose this is the same kind of dexterity one needs to tie a cherry stem, but I unfortunately have yet to master that feat.

[Bux]

I admire the patience of Chinese diners who get the tastiest morsals from around the bone when eating duck, squab, etc., and I notice I leave so much more meat.

I've noticed that Western foods are often strictly limited to items that are easier to eat. For example, the prevalence of filets. Growing up eating Chinese foods, I feel that I'm a lot more skilled at eating boned foods, using my mouth to seperate the bones from the meat. I suppose this is the same kind of dexterity one needs to tie a cherry stem, but I unfortunately have yet to master that feat.

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I'll go one further. Most westerners are conditioned not to do many of the things Asians do that either enable them to enjoy their food or show their appreciation of food they're enjoying. It's almost as if the basis of anglo-american table manners is designed not so much on the enjoyment and appreciation of food, but on making it less enjoyable. Using one's mouth to remove the meat from the bones is generally considered unrefined in most American circles, but this is not the place to have a subtread on cultural dining differences.

[tetsujustin]

Tranquil is the man who will eat chicken's feet.

I'm curious as to who of you Houston diners will be open to trying things such as duck's tongue? When I had previously dined at Trio (when Grant Achatz was still at the helm), there was a woman who squirmed in her seat when her beef tounge and beef cheek was brought out and would only try to sauce that came with it and that is in what I believe to be a much more adventurous (at least diningwise) city such as Chicago. (the tongue I can understand, the cheek, no so much)

So what kind of limit would you put on yourself?

[fifi]

I am going to keep this on-topic by commenting only on duck tongues. First, a disclaimer. I am not an adventurous eater when it comes to odd animal parts. It is not usually the squeamish factor but more a matter of texture. I don't mind eating meat off of bones. There is nothing better than good ribs or fried chicken. But once you start getting into the grisley range, I lose interest. I never have liked chicken gizzards. My great aunt used chicken feet in the broth for her chicken and dumplings (to contribute the gelatin) but we never ate them.

Oddly enough, when it comes to duck tongues, there is a taint of elitism that I can't shake. Yes . . . I know. Duck tongues are a case of using something that would normally be thrown away. But, maybe it was all of those ancient history classes with the descriptions of Roman banquets where the decadent ate rare odd bits just because they could.

Bottom line . . . Would I try it? Yes. But from the descriptions here, I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't enjoy it.

[yimay]

I've noticed that Western foods are often strictly limited to items that are easier to eat. For example, the prevalence of filets. Growing up eating Chinese foods, I feel that I'm a lot more skilled at eating boned foods, using my mouth to seperate the bones from the meat. I suppose this is the same kind of dexterity one needs to tie a cherry stem, but I unfortunately have yet to master that feat.

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oh man, my entire extended family in taiwan fights over the bones and cartilage at the dinner table. we call my cousin "the dog" because of the way she can manipulate a piece of bone in her mouth and hack away at it until virtually nothing i left. i love some cartilage and bone, but i can't actually ingest it like she does. perhaps it's the american upbringing in me.

final preparations of western food also don't tend to resemble anything like the original animal. i think that's why a lot of people have issues with bones/duck heads/whole fish. chinese (and french) cuisine tends to use every bit of the animal so you can't really avoid bones and cartilage and tendon and sinewy bits that we cherish so much.

i had duck tongue for the first time in taiwan last march from some place famouse for it. it was "red-cooked" or hong shau (with anise and spices) and was also heavily flavored. but i think that is the point of that kind of red-cooking. the parts that are many times used — pig's ears, chicken feet, duck tongue, tendon, even when my mom cooks with chicken wings — usually have a a very high cartilage or skin to meat ratio and are always overpowered by those red-cooked flavors. they are basically just a flavor vehicle for the soy/sugar/spice in the hong shau sauce. i think this type of cuisine came about in the tradition of using every part of the animal. tasty!

[Kent Wang]

I consulted with my mom. I got the recipe right for the most part, except she recommends adding 1/2 cup Chinese cooking rice wine to remove any "gamey" aroma of the tongues. You can substitute with sherry but either way, the rice wine is not absolutely necessary. The only spice she uses is one or two star anise though you can just substitute with regular anise as the flavors are very similar.

[ChefGEB]

I just happened to see this post and thought I would add my two cents. I believe you could get ducks tongues from either Hudson Valley Foie Gras or La Belle Farms (usually in a ten pound case at $9.00+/lb). Due to the extremely high concentration of natural gelatin, I find it is best to cook it ina way that is similar to pigs feet. First, braise the tongues, then, once cooled, remove the small, plastic tube like item from their center. Gently chop up the tongues with a Chefs knife until they are in a rougly uniforn size. Once you have the tongue meat set aside, saute some garlic and shallot in a pan with a little oil. Add the duck tongues and cook them down until the geltain renders them into a crispy texture. The finished product will yield an almost otherworldy flavor reminiscent of bacon. Enjoy!