Two Days in Manhattan

[Rookie Sensation]

I'll be taking my wife to New York in a few weeks and I need some recommendations. I'm hoping for some rec's that aren't in travel guides or common publications. Neighbourhood treasures; you know what I mean.

We'll have 2 breakfasts, lunches and dinners. I'm hoping to keep the dinners at about 150 for the two of us for each dinner. The other meals should be on the inexpensive side but hopefully offer some value. Also, we are big wine drinkers.

No restrictions in terms of ethnicity but we eat a lot of Korean, Vietnamese, Indian, Japanese and Chinese here in Toronto, so I'm looking for different options (unless there is something outstanding that must be experienced).

We are also happy to leave Manhattan for a great meal but (only because of time constraints) would prefer to keep travel time to a minimum.

Thanks in advance for your help! If you ever need a list like this for Toronto, let me know.

PS: If anyone can recommend a good (cheap) hotel, that would be great too.

[Megan Blocker]

Sounds like a fun trip, Rookie! If you're looking for cheap hotels, I would recommend staying away from Midtown for the most part, or looking for package deals at the larger boutique-y hotels (The W, or one of the Ian Schrager hotels). Additionally, you might think about the Upper East or West Sides as places to stay - the UES in particular has some lovely little hotels, such as the Hotel Wales or the Franklin Hotel. Another option that people rarely think about in NYC are B&B's. There are some very cute ones in the Village.

As for restaurants, it really depends on your budget. For the best return on your investment I would cast my vote for the following!

Ouest - Some may disagree with me on this, but I think Ouest is great. Very solid - everything on the menu is good, and some things are truly excellent. They had a parmesan custard this winter that drove me wild! This is American food with a definite French bend, and an emphasis on meat dishes. Not a place for vegetarians.

Paola's - This actually is my neighborhood place - I eat here a few times a month, and have yet to be disappointed. The spaghetti carbonara in particular is excellent.

Pampa - This one is pretty far off the beaten path (Amsterdam between 97th and 98th), but it's delicious. It's an Argentinian steakhouse, and it has the most adorable garden out back.

Keep us posted on what you choose and how it goes!

[Rookie Sensation]

Thanks Megan, that's exactly what I'm looking for.

One thing I forgot to mention for anyone else with recommendations is that my wife is a bit health conscious. She will go hard if the restaurant is worth it, but I can't imagine that I'll get her to eat six or seven meals in a row consisting of serious amounts of butter and pork fat (I would stand in line to do this, but hey...).

If anyone knows some great lunch or dinner places which specialize in fish, seafood or a place that is known for great seasonal vegetables (not vegetarian though) that would be a bonus.

Thanks in advance again.

[Pan]

For places I think of as actual budget restaurants, look at THE BEST: "Non-Fancy" NYC Restaurants. For $75/person dinners? It seems to me, that eliminates only really expensive places. Go to Lupa. Heck, I suppose you could even go to Babbo, since their pasta tasting menu is $59 per person without the wine pairing (here's their website). Places that specialize in seafood? Sure. Well, the places I go to that specialize in seafood are rather less expensive than that and usually Chinese or Korean. Off the top of my head, though, people have raved about Le Bernardin and Aquagrill. Based on the menus on Le Bernardin's website, dinner would bust your budget but you could go for the $49 lunch prix fixe. Aquagrill seems to be within your budget for dinner, though (have a look at their website). I went to Le Bernardin many years ago and was fairly underwhelmed, but again, that was many years ago, and there have been personnel changes in the interim. I've never been to Aquagrill. For the record, I don't consider Ouest or Pampa budget restaurants, and I've been to both. Based on a quick check of their menu on menupages.com, it looks to me like Ouest's prices have gone up considerably since the time I was there, but note that they have an earlybird $29 prix fixe dinner if you order before 6:30. Pampa is not cheap but serves very generous portions. I haven't been there for over a year now but will go back one of these days with a friend who lives in that neighborhood and is a fan of the place. I like it, too. Just don't get the entrana (skirt steak) that's supposedly for two; share the order that's supposedly for one. Really, unless things have changed a great deal since all the other times I was there, the portions of steak are really, really big. And you'll want to leave room for their desserts, which are excellent. I also like their Morcilla (blood sausage) and their garlic fries.

And now I'm wondering what price range would constitute a "cheap" hotel for you.

[Pan]

I'm thinking some more about this. With only two days in New York, I think you should steer clear of both Ouest and Pampa and go to really great places, a description that I don't think fits either of those two. Ergo my mention of Babbo (which I haven't yet visited) and Lupa (which I've been to twice and love). You should also have a pastrami lunch (or, if you prefer, dinner) at Katz's. I haven't been to Devi yet but loved Amma when Suvir Saran and Hemant Mathur were there, and it's clear that Devi's cuisine is similar to what I had at Amma. Devi is serving two $60 tasting menus (one vegetarian, one non-vegetarian), which are within your price range if you don't have wine. And since you'll want another lunch possibility than to go to Lupa and Babbo in the same day, consider the bar room at The Modern, at the Museum of Modern Art, which has gotten a lot of positive reaction on this board. You can't see any menus on their overly arty website, but the prices look OK for you. All of these places except Katz's require reservations, and you'll want to get them as soon as possible. If you decide to go to Babbo without reservations, line up before opening time. I think I recall that when we asked a hostess at Lupa about this, she said to show up about 30 minutes before opening time to be guaranteed seats at the bar.

[M.X.Hassett]

I would definetly recomend the bar at MoMa, You can eat at the bar, and they also have a number of tables they do not take reservations for and hold open for walk-ins.

[Megan Blocker]

I haven't been to Devi yet...

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I went to Devi last week for a business dinner (didn't have the tasting menu, though) and really enjoyed it.

I have to say, if budget isn't an issue, I am all over the Babbo recommendation. But if you want to stick to $150 for two people and have good wine, I don't know if it's quite doable (especially if you include tax and tip in that $150 total).

[Megan Blocker]

Also a good cheap option - Tocqueville (near Union Square) for lunch. They have a $25 prix fixe. I haven't been there in a while, but hear that it's still good!

[I_call_the_duck]

Hey Rookie,

Since you're big wine drinkers, many wine stores in New York City have free wine tastings on Saturdays, in which you can sample from two to five wines per store. By tastings, I mean a sip or two. If you plan well, you can sample many good wines and get a good buzz without having to pay a dime.

Astor Wines, (12 Astor Place) from 1-4.

Union Square Wines (33 Union Square West) from 1-4.

Anthony Road Winery, (Union Square Greenmarket), a winery in upstate NY, until 6pm.

Vino (121 E 27th St) sells only Italian wines, from 4-6.

Burgundy Wine Co. (143 W 26th St) sells primarily French wines with a few from Oregon and California, from 3-6.

is-wine (225 E 5th St), from 4-6.

67 store, (179 Columbus Ave) from 1-3 (I think).

Chelsea Wine Vault, 75 9th Ave, usually from 1-3.

Sometimes Sherry-Lehman (679 Madison Avenue) has tastings from 1-4.

*IMO, Vino, the Burgundy Store, and Sherry-Lehman have the best tastings.

If you're lucky, Union Square and Chelsea Wine Vault will have "super tastings", in which they will each offer about 12+ wines. (In fact, our record was 36 samples in about five stores, and it would have been 40, but I was getting very drunk after 30.)

I don’t have many recommendations for dinner, mainly because we don’t live in New York anymore and are a little out of the dining loop, but we still have some favs. I like i trulli (across the street from Vino, and owned by the same person) has wonderful Italian food. Next door is Blue Smoke, which as great BBQ, and equally great jazz downstairs. I wouldn’t say these places are inexpensive, but it should be within your budget. Marion’s Continential (354 Bowery) offers a good early bird (I think until 6pm). The food is decent, but not memorable. Around the corner is Bianca (5 Bleecker St), which offers good Italian food. A.O.C. (314 Bleecker St) serves French bistro cuisine. Amy Ruth’s (113 W 116th St) has soul food.

We recently had a nice brunch at Delta Grill (700 9th Ave), which serves New Orleans/Southern food. Since you're from Toronto, I won't bother offering you dim sum options.

In Astoria, Sabor Tropical (36-18 30th Ave) has great Brazilian food, and their special Saturday dish, fejoida, is the best I’ve had yet. Astoria is also home to some of the best Greek restaurants in New York. Uncles Georges (33-17 Broadway), or S'Agapo Taverna Ouzeri (34-21 34th Ave) are good options. To get to Astoria (about 20 minutes from midtown), you take the N to Broadway or R to Steinway, which will get you within a few blocks from the aforementioned restaurants.

For a good inexpensive place to stay, try the Club Quarters Midtown. It's near Times Square, but on a quiet block, and the prices just can't be beat. It’s a hotel geared towards business travelers, so they offer great deals on the weekends. (About $99 a night. The catch, you have to "belong" to their client list, so when they ask, you can just say that you have a relative who works at one of the Fortune 500 companies, like Citibank or Chase.)

Also, get a “fun pass” MetroCard, and you can ride all day for $7.

My husband and I are all about bargains. (Mind you, we also love high-end stuff too.) I can go on, but I don’t want to overwhelm you. If you wish me to continue, just holler.

Edited August 29, 2005 by I_call_the_duck (log)

[daisy17]

Le Bernardin is absolutely spectacular, and I highly recommend it especially if you like seafood, but it is not inexpensive. Lunch is a great deal though.

Some great, not expensive (and not too heavy) meals in NY can be had at some of my (currently) favorite restaurants:

inoteca

Bellavitae

Petrosino

Snack (Greek)

Mary's Fish Camp

(or Pearl Oyster Bar)

more expensive than the above but worth it:

August

Prune

Hearth

The Red Cat

Gusto

Enjoy your time in NY.

[daisy17]

Oh, one more thing - if you're into wine and food, I highly recommend Veritas. It's constantly noted for its stellar wine list, but I think that Scott Bryan's food is absolutely fabulous (most notably anything braised, imo) and surprisingly underrated. Prix fixe is about $70 and you could go crazy with the wine, but it will be a great meal.

[mascarpone]

Nougatine at Jean Jorges (sp?) for lunch. It is on the lobby level of the Trump Building near Columbus Circle. Great fixed-price lunch. Great decor an service.

[AzianBrewer]

Rookie-Forget about Chinese grubs in NYC. They are way better in TO. Why not try out the stuff they don't have in TO. No doubt that Per Se, Nobu and Jean George are great but they are not the real NYC grubs. You can go to Vegas and LA and find them. Here's my list for all out of towners.

Lombardi Pizza (The first pizzeria in North America, a bit of a tourist trap but still cool)

Katz Deli (The best Pastrami on Rye...Schwartz is just an amateur night)

2nd Ave (Great Pastrami and Barley Mushroom Soup)

Boca Chica (Awesome Latino fare)

Old Homestead (Steakhouse house in the legendary meat packing district)

Cheers,

Azianbrewer

[Pan]

I really have to disagree with the recommendation of Lombardi's. If you want great pizza in Manhattan, consider the original Patsy's in East Harlem or some of the newer places like Una Pizza Napoletana (though I haven't tried the latter yet myself). Heck, you'd get better pizza at Arturo's on Houston St. or L'il Frankie's than at Lombardi's.

Boca Chica is in my neighborhood, yet I've never been there. I've started a thread on the place so that others can weigh in with their opinions.

Edited August 31, 2005 by Pan (log)

[AzianBrewer]

I really have to disagree with the recommendation of Lombardi's. If you want great pizza in Manhattan, consider the original Patsy's in East Harlem or some of the newer places like Una Pizza Napoletana (though I haven't tried the latter yet myself). Heck, you'd get better pizza at Arturo's on Houston St. or L'il Frankie's than at Lombardi's.

Boca Chica is in my neighborhood, yet I've never been there. I've started a thread on the place so that others can weigh in with their opinions.

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No way Pan, Arturo definitely is not better than Lombardi's...At least Lombardi's uses fresh mozz. Arturo is just another Ray's Pizza. Well, that's just my opinion.

[Pan]

No way Pan, Arturo definitely is not better than Lombardi's...At least Lombardi's uses fresh mozz.  Arturo is just another Ray's Pizza.  Well, that's just my opinion.

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Which you're entitled to.

I'll just point out, for what it's worth, that the New York Pizza Survey participants seem to have more or less the same viewpoint as me.

Also, I don't think that fresh mozzarella is in any way needed for great pizza. Low- (or at most medium-)moisture mozzarella (fior di latte) is used for most of the great classic New York-style pizzas (DiFara's, Grimaldi's, Totonnos, and most of the ones at Patsy's in East Harlem, as well as Arturo's). In this post, Sam Kinsey made the point that fresh mozzarella isn't always a good thing in a pizza:

they [Lombardi's] used fresh mozzarella, which didn't work as well here as it did at Patsy's because the blandness of the cheese didn't have much to play against.

[AzianBrewer]

Another place I forgot to mention...L&B Spumoni Gardens in Brooklyn. Worth a trip to Bensonhurst especially if you are a fan of fresh mozz. Springy crust, nice balance of sauce and cheese.....simply fugghetabautit!!!

[Pan]

The NYC Pizza Survey went to L&B, too. I think I speak for the other participants in saying that while some of us (including yours truly) enjoyed the pizza for what it was, none of us thought it was in any way outstanding or comparable to the best pizzerie in New York. I really liked their spumoni, though! AzianBrewer, I think we're going to have to agree to pretty strongly disagree about pizza.

You can see coverage of the NYC Pizza Survey's trip to L&B starting with this post.

[AzianBrewer]

The NYC Pizza Survey went to L&B, too. I think I speak for the other participants in saying that while some of us (including yours truly) enjoyed the pizza for what it was, none of us thought it was in any way outstanding or comparable to the best pizzerie in New York.  I really liked their spumoni, though! AzianBrewer, I think we're going to have to agree to pretty strongly disagree about pizza.

You can see coverage of the NYC Pizza Survey's trip to L&B starting with this post.

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Oh well, I can't argue that I am a pizza connoisseur. I do think Arturo is good but not great. The cheese are way too salty. It just masked out the freshness of the sauce. Grimaldi's and Lombardi's are becoming tourist attractions. Know any place in the Bronx's little Italy that serves excellent pizza minus the waits???

[Pan]

[...]Know any place in the Bronx's little Italy that serves excellent pizza minus the waits???

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No, I really don't know pizzerie in the Bronx at all. For that matter, I haven't had occasion to have a meal in the Bronx for quite a long time.

In "THE BEST: NYC Pizza Favorites," GaijinGirl recommended Nicky's Pizza. I can't vouch for her opinion, but there it is. I think the place isn't close to Arthur Av., though.

[FatTony]

Many excellent reccommendations here. If you haven't already done so, you can explore NY menus (Manhattan at least) on menupages. That might help you narrow down your shortlist.

I like:

Casa Mono for tapas, though some find the room too tight. I think it's especially good at lunch and fun to sit at the bar.

Definitely Katz for NY's best pastrami and a window into a bygone NY era.

Breakfast is always fun at Barney Greengrass if you are on the upper west side. I always think it is to smoked fish what Katz's is to pastrami.

Check out the NY Pizza survey for a good pizza joint: NY pizza is truly exceptional if you experience one of the greats. If you're prepared to leave Manhattan, my vote goes for Franny's (dinner only) and Grimaldis (lunch and dinner). Grimaldis can be combined with a pleasant walk across the Brooklyn bridge and finished with excellent ice cream across the street. Franny's is perhaps ten minutes further than Grimaldis if you take a cab. DiFaro is the best of all but too far and too few local attractions to recommend for someone with two days in town.

Though it may not be quintessential New York, I'm a huge fan of Five Points for classic American cuisine, utilising local ingredients and a wood oven to great effect.

Savoy fits the description I've given of Five Points too, sans wood oven. But smaller and more intimate. The chef, Peter Hoffman is an exponent of greenmarket cooking and it really shows.

Public is a great space and showcases very innovative cooking. Like Savoy and Five Points, there's something here for the unrepentant carnivore (that would be you) and your wife's more measured tastes.

Lastly (though I could easily rattle off another twenty recommendations) I suggest checking out Hearth, for seasonal excellence; Jack's Luxury Oyster bar, for a one of a kind restaurant, great food and wine and absolutely no elbow room; and Pastis or Balthazar, for an epic Paris-in-NY style brasserie. Prune is innovative and low key and offers a brunch the like of which you'll find nowhere else. Their five kinds of bloody marys will help smooth out the morning after too much wine drinking! Pearl Oyster bar or Mary's Fish Camp (I prefer Pearl) are top seafood choices, if you dig the upscale New England seafood shack vibe.

Having written this, I notice that, Balthazar and Pastis notwithstanding, many of my favorites are smaller places. Your tastes may differ.

To help further, tell us about the kind of restaurants you enjoy. How important is decor? Are you looking for classic new york or just great food that could happen anywhere? Do you enjoy (or run screaming from) a 'scene'. What can't you get in Toronto that you'd like to explore?