Food questions for those living in Japan

prasantrin · November 18, 2005

I need to make about 300 shortbread cookies in the next two weeks. Given the exorbitant price of butter here (which, actually, is not that much more than it is in Canada right now), I was looking for alternative. While I know butter is better, especially for shortbread, I'm willing to sacrifice on flavour for price (the cookies are for my teenaged students, and I don't think they'll really notice the difference).

I was at Costco and found "Hotel Margarine", sold in a tub. It was only about Y400 for 1 kg of the stuff.

Then I found a pack of three-200g boxes of "Cake Margarine", which was about Y400 for 600g.

Has anyone used either of the two for baking cookies? I was thinking the Cake Margarine might be OK, since you can use it in cakes. But I think I read on the box (my reading isn't so good) that it's whipped. Wouldn't whipped butter be bad for baking? And in Canada, one can use most block-style margarines in baking with slight differences in texture. But the Hotel Margarine wasn't in a block, but in a tub, which makes me think the water content might be too high (there were no percentages of anything on the tub).

Any suggestions? I really should have started this a week or two ago, when it was still warm. It's gotten so cold, that my butter stays hard, even at room temperature. Oh well, that's just part of the fun of living in Japan!

AzianBrewer · November 18, 2005

I need to make about 300 shortbread cookies in the next two weeks. Given the exorbitant price of butter here (which, actually, is not that much more than it is in Canada right now), I was looking for alternative. While I know butter is better, especially for shortbread, I'm willing to sacrifice on flavour for price (the cookies are for my teenaged students, and I don't think they'll really notice the difference).
I was at Costco and found "Hotel Margarine", sold in a tub. It was only about Y400 for 1 kg of the stuff.
Then I found a pack of three-200g boxes of "Cake Margarine", which was about Y400 for 600g.
Has anyone used either of the two for baking cookies? I was thinking the Cake Margarine might be OK, since you can use it in cakes. But I think I read on the box (my reading isn't so good) that it's whipped. Wouldn't whipped butter be bad for baking? And in Canada, one can use most block-style margarines in baking with slight differences in texture. But the Hotel Margarine wasn't in a block, but in a tub, which makes me think the water content might be too high (there were no percentages of anything on the tub).
Any suggestions? I really should have started this a week or two ago, when it was still warm. It's gotten so cold, that my butter stays hard, even at room temperature. Oh well, that's just part of the fun of living in Japan!
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What about shortening like Crisco? Are they available in Japan??? I know it is very bad for you but is lard an option?

Edited November 18, 2005 by AzianBrewer (log)

Sencha · November 18, 2005

What about shortening like Crisco? Are they available in Japan??? I know it is very bad for you but is lard an option?
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Shortening would have the wrong flavor and just wouldn't give a pleasant mouth feel.

For shortbread, butter is best, but margarine is an okay second.

sanrensho · November 18, 2005

I think either type of margarine would work out fine. Do some test batches and find out. The whipped type might actually work better by helping the flour to incorporate evenly with the fat, although I've never worked with that type of margarine.

BTW, did you see the Gatten show on the best way to make (shortbread-style) cookies? Very educational.

Hiroyuki · November 18, 2005

I found some information about Cake Margarine here (Japanese only):

http://faq.meinyu.co.jp/EokpControl;jsessi...49&event=FE0006

Cake Margarine (a product of Meiji Dairies Corporation) is good for making cakes and cookies, and it's unsalted.

I can't find any useful information about Hotel Margarine

http://www.bidders.co.jp/dap/sv/nor1?id=52806231&p=y#body

except that it is for business use and tastes good. I can't tell whether it is salted or not, but I guess it is.

torakris · November 18, 2005

I know quite a few Japanese who use the cake margarine in their sweets. I tried it a couple times as a substitute for butter (in recipes that I make quite a bit) but they didn't turn out the same.

I actually have a tub of that hotel margarine in the refrigerator we use it only for toast, I never thought to use it in cooking....

I would go with cake but you may have to play around with it a bit.

prasantrin · November 21, 2005

I know quite a few Japanese who use the cake margarine in their sweets. I tried it a couple times as a substitute for butter (in recipes that I make quite a bit) but they didn't turn out the same.

Do you remember what it was that was different? Texture? Flavour?

I made my first batch with butter, since I wasn't able to make it to Costco over the weekend. Making relatively small cookies, I was able to get 102 cookies. Minus the two I ate, I have just about 200 more to make! I think I may just do the butter thing, rather than risk losing my reputation as a decent baker...either that or I'll just give the cookies to one grade (<150 students) rather than both the grades I teach. And eat the leftovers myself!

torakris · November 21, 2005

I know quite a few Japanese who use the cake margarine in their sweets. I tried it a couple times as a substitute for butter (in recipes that I make quite a bit) but they didn't turn out the same.
Do you remember what it was that was different? Texture? Flavour?
I made my first batch with butter, since I wasn't able to make it to Costco over the weekend. Making relatively small cookies, I was able to get 102 cookies. Minus the two I ate, I have just about 200 more to make! I think I may just do the butter thing, rather than risk losing my reputation as a decent baker...either that or I'll just give the cookies to one grade (<150 students) rather than both the grades I teach. And eat the leftovers myself!
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It was a textural difference.

It was also quite a long time ago so I can't really describe it any more but I remember thinking I WILL NEVER do that again. :biggrin:

fenyx66 · December 12, 2005

I don't really have much to contribute to this topic that hasn't already been said, but I have heard tales of a Gyoza land there from my coworkers. I am a JET in Gunma-ken but I go to Tochigi a lot, because my town in Gunma is on the border of saitama, Ibaraki, and Tochigi. I have a good friend named Sonny (sp?) from India who runs a popular Indian restaurant in Sano, Tochigi. If you are ever near Sano, there is a mall, movie theater, Subway sandwich shop, outlet mall, and a yamaya. If you can't go to Tokyo, then this would be the nearest place for you to go to buy clothing and some international food items. Utsonomiya is about 25 miles from Sano by the Tohoku Expressway and about 35 miles from where I live (just outside of Tatebayashi). If you get a car (in rural areas it is almost a necessity) you can easily get there. I have been wanting to get up to Utsonomiya to eat some gyoza and see the giant statue of Kannon for a long time.

As for cooking, I also have the 2 burners and tiny fish grill dealy in my house. I find that it is adequate. I also have a toaster over which I mostly use to toast bread and mochi. Recently, I have seen english muffins popping up at my local grocery store and with them I make mini-pizzas. I have also found little muffin tins at Kaldi and some muffin mix. If I keep my baking down to one or 2 muffins, I can make almost anything. Although a roasted turkey or something would have been nice for Thanksgiving, but that's what Costco is for. They sell rotisseried chickens. I don't really have any cookbooks, but I have found recipes on the internet and made those (like Torakris' nikujaga which I made last night, and it was delicious) and I have asked my friends for recipes or to teach me how to cook something. This is a great way to practice Japanese, build friendships and learn to cook homestyle Japanese food at the same time. My friends also help me get around the grocery store. When I first moved here I found it depressing to go to the grocery store because all the ingredients were foreign to me and I couldn't read anything. It was kind of like that scene in the Grudge. I am at work right now and there is nothing to do, so I could keep typing forever. Also, if you don't already know, then I would recommend learning to read hiragana and katakana before coming, I took a Japanese course in college and was thankful that I knew at least that much. Although this page is designed for kids, it's helped me out a little http://web-japan.org/kidsweb/

Good luck!

hitchmeer · February 12, 2006

Well, I am now in Japan and settled in Utsunomiya. I come to Tokyo on weekends and have had some great meals in both cities. I heard from people here that there are microwaves I can buy that double as ovens for cookie, cake, and even break baking. Has anyone tried this? If so, any reliable brands I should look for? Thanks everyone, for some great ideas on places to go. Torakris, I too packed Indian spices, but neglected to bring curry leaves. I saw your links to different places to order Indian ingredients online - hopefully I'll find some this way. Thanks again everyone!

smallworld · February 13, 2006

Hitchmeer, glad you're all settled in and eating well.

I think pretty much every microwave sold here oven doubles as a convection oven. I've got one and although it does take some getting used to, it's been fine for baking and roasting.

I can't recommend any particular brand, but I'd suggest you head to Akihabara on your next visit to Tokyo and check the ovens out for yourself. There seems to be a new generation of convection ovens that have all sorts of great features and look really cool. Which means that you can either buy a fancy new oven or get a great deal on a plainer old model.

torakris · February 13, 2006

Hitchmeer,

I am also glad to hear you are settled in.

My combo oven has been acting up recently (it's about 6 years old and has been through a lot) so I have been looking around. I currently own a Toshiba and have been extremely happy however I don't care for any of the new Toshiba ones that I have looked at. My previous oven was a Hitachi and it was awful, it was so weak I couldn't cook anything in it, so I am a little scared to try them again.

It seems to be so hit or miss with the ovens here, My friend bought one of the really expensive top of the line models a couple years back and it microwaved like a charm but nothing baked right. I wish I could remember the maker...

The things I am looking for currently are a large size, over 30L, though the biggest one I have seen so far was 33L. It also must have the ability to cook two trays of food at one time and preferably have 3 different levels (for positioning the tray). When are making cookies, baking two trays at once is really a life saver.

I use my oven for microwaving, baking and sometimes broiling, these are the only functions I feel anyone really needs and am trying to avoid the ones that add to many functions.

Let us know if you find a good one!

prasantrin · February 13, 2006

I had a teeny tiny one when I lived in Ujiie (a few stops north of you). it worked well, but was teeny tiny and I could only bake 5-7 cookies at a time. The microwave was relatively powerful, though, so I could make microwave popcorn in it. I think it was a Sharp.

The one I have now is much bigger, and is a gas convection type. The microwave is pretty weak, so no more microwave popcorn (which is OK, because stovetop type stuff is so much better!). The oven is great, though it has taken me a bit of time to adjust to the

Kojima Denki's prices are not much different from Akihabara, so to save on the delivery fee, you might be better of getting it in Utsu.

helenjp · February 13, 2006

At this time of year, it might be worth looking at local 2nd hand shops, as many people move house around now, and sell their lightly-used electrical goods.

I have a Toshiba inherited from a friend, it's a sturdy trooper but you can't use 2 trays in it. Pity...

buffy · February 17, 2006

Am I missing something here? Has it been pulled from the shelves in Japan? Went to 12 places looking for it last week- at least 8 of them have carried it in the past, but to no avail. Just took a quick look on the FBC site, too, and couldn't find it there, either.

torakris · February 17, 2006

That is really weird, I bought my bottle a couple months ago and only have 1/4 left...

I looked at about 10 websites that sell it and they have it marked as sold out. One site did say that they were expecting a new shipment at the end of March.

I did a quick internet search (of English and Japanese sources) and couldn't find any reason for its disappearance.

There was a red dye scare (Sudan 1) about 1 year ago that caused many products to be recalled including some worcestershire sauces but Lea & Perrins was not affected.

an article about Sudan 1

_john · February 17, 2006

That's strange. I bought some last week in my local large supermarket (kansai super). They had two types and full shelves of each.

buffy · February 18, 2006

That's strange. I bought some last week in my local large supermarket (kansai super). They had two types and full shelves of each.
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It does seem kind of strange. I thought it might be due to that dye scare, too. I did find two other types of sauces by L&P, but not the original worcestershire sauce. Guess I have to wait until the end of March or make a trip up to Kansai!

torakris · February 19, 2006

Well my oven officially died and on the same day as my hand mixer....

I had been researching them a bit for the past couple weeks and decided to go with Mitsubishi RO-VF1. It has everything I am looking for 2 large-ish trays and 3 levels to place them at, it is a convection oven that goes up to 300C and it comes with a t-fal frypan (with a clip on handle). I can finally cook things on the stove and finish them in the oven. :biggrin:

Here is a picture and information (RO-VF1)

I ordered it online (as I do with almost everything now), the list price is 94,000yen and the cheapest I found in the electronic stores around my house was 62,000, online it only cost me 48,000 (shipping included).

My favorite resource for buying goods online is kakaku.com (this link takes you to their page on ovens)

helenjp · February 19, 2006

OK, I see that the mark that looks like a ferret doing parallel bar work is actually a "double tray with convection" symbol! That's a really useful option - I miss the fact that my current oven has only one tray, especially as the top tray is so close to the top of the oven that it won't take casserole dishes or cakes. My Toshiba is a toughie, but not the most baking-friendly.

P.S. And what about the hand mixer? I've bought and inherited various Japanese ones, but the Braun Multimix M880 I have now is tmuch better than any of them.

Edited February 19, 2006 by helenjp (log)

tokyogurumegal · February 19, 2006

L&P?!?! Who needs that when you can get Bulldog Sauce? Kidding... my English husband would cringe if he reads this!

torakris · February 19, 2006

OK, I see that the mark that looks like a ferret doing parallel bar work is actually a "double tray with convection" symbol! That's a really useful option - I miss the fact that my current oven has only one tray, especially as the top tray is so close to the top of the oven that it won't take casserole dishes or cakes. My Toshiba is a toughie, but not the most baking-friendly.
P.S. And what about the hand mixer? I've bought and inherited various Japanese ones, but the Braun Multimix M880 I have now is tmuch better than any of them.
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The oven will be here tomorrow morning I can't wait to try it out!

The hand mixer really bummed me out, one of the sides stopped spinning about 3 weeks ago and yesterday he other side went, It was one of those cheap 1,000 yen ones (Eupa, I think). I only had it like 2 years though, the cheap one I had before it lasted for almost 8. I REALLY want a stand mixer, but after just purchasing an oven it isn't an option. Maybe next year.... I looked at a couple hand mixers in the store and they were either 1,000 yen or 5,000 yen, nothing inbetween. Time to start researching handmixers. :biggrin:

helenjp · February 20, 2006

If it's any consolation, I burned out my deLonghi stand mixer, although I thought I was being extremely careful with it. I've taken to pulling out a drawer and putting a chopping board over it to give me somewhere to put my hand mixer down midway. :cool:

buffy · February 20, 2006

torakris that oven looks great! Not a bad price it seems, either. I am anxious to find out how you like it. I am in the market for one now, too. Am using an ancient 1991 model convection/microwave that I got from a friend. Doesn't really cut it anymore. How big a turkey do you think you can get in a 32l oven?

Edited February 20, 2006 by buffy (log)

torakris · February 20, 2006

torakris that oven looks great! Not a bad price it seems, either. I am anxious to find out how you like it. I am in the market for one now, too. Am using an ancient 1991 model convection/microwave that I got from a friend. Doesn't really cut it anymore. How big a turkey do you think you can get in a 32l oven?
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My old oven was 30L and I never had a problem perfectly roasting :biggrin: the 2kg+ (about 5lbs) chicken from Costco. I will have to try a turkey this year!

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