Korean Dining-Proper Etiquette

[touaregsand]

Just to clarify.

It was never considered rude to eat rice with chopsticks. My parents are extremely old fashioned in regards to this, as are my other relatives in Korea. The whole spoon method for eating rice is about ergonomics.

The whole idea of a finishing school for Korean manners in Korea is for the relatively new middle class. I don't mean to sound at all arrogant when I say this.

[glossyp]

The whole idea of a finishing school for Korean manners in Korea is for the relatively new middle class. I don't mean to sound at all arrogant when I say this.

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Well it was about 25 years ago and a job requirement for me to attend. It was clear that it was designed to improve the typical students' (all young females) marriage prospects by giving them the skills and knowledge to marry and move up in a very class conscious society.

[jschyun]

Well it makes sense to use spoon when you're eating soup because it tastes good when you soak rice with the soup/stew and eat it that way. In fact I always ate rice w/ spoon when growing up and just realized that it's prob because my mom loves soup.

I start in on the banchan the moment it comes out. I like starting with the kimchi first. Haven't gotten any raised eyebrows yet.

[touaregsand]

The whole idea of a finishing school for Korean manners in Korea is for the relatively new middle class. I don't mean to sound at all arrogant when I say this.

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Well it was about 25 years ago and a job requirement for me to attend. It was clear that it was designed to improve the typical students' (all young females) marriage prospects by giving them the skills and knowledge to marry and move up in a very class conscious society.

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Oh, apologies. I didn't mean to imply that you were a newly middle class Korean. I'm aware of you having lived there from your other posts.

[Jinmyo]

I like startinbg with a bit of kimchi to open the palate.

[glossyp]

The whole idea of a finishing school for Korean manners in Korea is for the relatively new middle class. I don't mean to sound at all arrogant when I say this.

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Well it was about 25 years ago and a job requirement for me to attend. It was clear that it was designed to improve the typical students' (all young females) marriage prospects by giving them the skills and knowledge to marry and move up in a very class conscious society.

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Oh, apologies. I didn't mean to imply that you were a newly middle class Korean. I'm aware of you having lived there from your other posts.

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No worries. I was striving for clarity regarding my personal experience so as not to be presumptuous or misunderstood by those who might not be as familiar with my prior posts.

Fortunately, the nuances of Korean class structure are outside the realm of this forum so I'm going to get back on track by seconding Jimyo's notion of opening with kim chee. I think I'll go have some for lunch now. Kim chee and peanut butter with mayo on whole wheat...yummy!

[AngelicaKuo]

It has been explained to me by my adopted Korean family that in a traditional dining situation, such as on a holiday, a special family gathering, or in a nice Korean restaurant, it is considered to be extremely low-brow to use chopsticks as opposed to the spoon.

Wow! This is my first time coming across a Korean family that has adopted a white child. Isn't it usually the other way around. I called my Korean friend's mom to ask about this issue. She is a very educated person from a traditional background and she does not know of these distinctions between chopsticks and rice for eating rice. But if you are not Korean does it matter how you eat it? I don't think so!

[Jason Perlow]

It has been explained to me by my adopted Korean family that in a traditional dining situation, such as on a holiday, a special family gathering, or in a nice Korean restaurant, it is considered to be extremely low-brow to use chopsticks as opposed to the spoon.

Wow! This is my first time coming across a Korean family that has adopted a white child. Isn't it usually the other way around. I called my Korean friend's mom to ask about this issue. She is a very educated person from a traditional background and she does not know of these distinctions between chopsticks and rice for eating rice. But if you are not Korean does it matter how you eat it? I don't think so!

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LOL, no my parents aren't Korean. But when one of my best friends, Andy, who happens to be Korean, asked me and my wife to become godparents to his daughter, Lexie, I ended up becoming "adopted" by his family. So now I have to pay my respects to Halmeoni and Harabudji like the rest of them, and eat all their food

[AngelicaKuo]

Oh ok! LOL LOL! So you get all the benefits without the problems! That's a great deal!

Returning to the subject I have learnt from being in a multiracial family and friends environment that the people we know don't always know everything accurately about their culture. My father tells people things about Chinese history that are just wrong but he is convinced he is right and he is Chinese so people believe him. It is interesting to read all the different answers here. Even the Koreans are not all agreeing!

[touaregsand]

Oh ok! LOL LOL! So you get all the benefits without the problems! That's a great deal!

Returning to the subject I have learnt from being in a multiracial family and friends environment that the people we know don't always know everything accurately about their culture. My father tells people things about Chinese history that are just wrong but he is convinced he is right and he is Chinese so people believe him. It is interesting to read all the different answers here. Even the Koreans are not all agreeing!

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The Koreans aren't exactly disagreeing. So I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I do agree with you that someone from the source culture is not necessarily an expert on his/her own culture. I wouldn't ask my grandmother about Korean culture/cuisine at all. I ask my parents about those things. But on the other hand, I would avoid discussing Korean history with my dad. Not that he has his facts off, just a bit too Koreancentric for my tastes.

[jschyun]

The only time the rice is taken from the rice bowl with a spoon is when one spoons a bit of rice, carries it over to the soup bowl, lets some soup flow into the bowl of the spoon, and eats the spoonful. This rice-bowl-to-soup-bowl move is distinctively Korean. Perhaps you were referring to this exception to the rule that rice is eaten with chopsticks.

Putting the soup into the rice is practical esp if you are sharing a tureen of soup. But when I have my own bowl of say soft tofu stew, I seem to enjoy it better when I spoon a bit of rice and soak it in the chigae then eat. Sort of reverse of the way it's normally done. I've never seen anyone else do this but was wondering if anyone had tried it.

[browniebaker]

The only time the rice is taken from the rice bowl with a spoon is when one spoons a bit of rice, carries it over to the soup bowl, lets some soup flow into the bowl of the spoon, and eats the spoonful. This rice-bowl-to-soup-bowl move is distinctively Korean. Perhaps you were referring to this exception to the rule that rice is eaten with chopsticks.

Putting the soup into the rice is practical esp if you are sharing a tureen of soup. But when I have my own bowl of say soft tofu stew, I seem to enjoy it better when I spoon a bit of rice and soak it in the chigae then eat. Sort of reverse of the way it's normally done. I've never seen anyone else do this but was wondering if anyone had tried it.

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But we're talking about the same thing: spooning some rice from your own bowl and soaking the spoonful of rice with soup from your own soup bowl just before eating it. Among Koreans it doesn't seem to be "the reverse of the way it's normally done," since it's commonly done. Am I just misunderstanding your meaning?

[Soup]

About the metal chopsticks, I like them better than the wooden ones or plastic (which is my least fav). I, for some reason, think (this is non-scientific) it is cleaner without the treat of splinters.

I also like the metal ones because it produces the best tone when my son and I use them like drum sticks. As you can tell, I don't like a whole lot of formality. I think many things about the Korean culture are formal enough or overly formal. That formality doesn't need to invade the most fun and relaxing parts of my day (i.e., anytime I'm setting down with friend and family to eat).

Soup

[touaregsand]

The only time the rice is taken from the rice bowl with a spoon is when one spoons a bit of rice, carries it over to the soup bowl, lets some soup flow into the bowl of the spoon, and eats the spoonful. This rice-bowl-to-soup-bowl move is distinctively Korean. Perhaps you were referring to this exception to the rule that rice is eaten with chopsticks.

Putting the soup into the rice is practical esp if you are sharing a tureen of soup. But when I have my own bowl of say soft tofu stew, I seem to enjoy it better when I spoon a bit of rice and soak it in the chigae then eat. Sort of reverse of the way it's normally done. I've never seen anyone else do this but was wondering if anyone had tried it.

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But we're talking about the same thing: spooning some rice from your own bowl and soaking the spoonful of rice with soup from your own soup bowl just before eating it. Among Koreans it doesn't seem to be "the reverse of the way it's normally done," since it's commonly done. Am I just misunderstanding your meaning?

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I'm confused too.

A bit of rice on a spoon soaked with a mild broth is the way to feed babies/toddlers as well.

[Ben Hong]

I also like the metal ones because it produces the best tone when my son and I use them like drum sticks. 

I am curious, do you play percussion at the dinner table with knives, forks and spoons too??

[Soup]

I am curious, do you play percussion at the dinner table with knives, forks and spoons too??

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Never thougth about that? We don't hardly ever set knives but forks we do set sometimes but to be honest have never used it in that manner. As for the chopsticks, it good entertainment after the meal. Give it a try.

[glossyp]

Maybe slightly off topic but we have some egulleters here who could reasonably be called experts - or at the very least have elders they can ask! Did metal chopsticks evolve from the historical use of silver chopsticks? And were chopsticks silver because silver would discolor in the presence of poison? True or the Korean equivalent of urban legend/old wive's tale? Inquiring minds and all that want to know.

[touaregsand]

Maybe slightly off topic but we have some egulleters here who could reasonably be called experts - or at the very least have elders they can ask! Did metal chopsticks evolve from the historical use of silver chopsticks? And were chopsticks silver because silver would discolor in the presence of poison? True or the Korean equivalent of urban legend/old wive's tale? Inquiring minds and all that want to know.

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I recall that the Aristocracy and landed gentry used silver chopsticks partly for fear of poisoning. There were bitter feuds over titles and land, even amongst siblings. They were also made with brass, I think I saw some made from copper in a few museums but my memory is a bit fuzzy on that.

I'm no expert, I know enough to ask or do further research when I am unsure of something or a piece of information doesn't sound correct.

My husband will be meeting with some real experts at the Korean Cultural Center tomorrow and will have a definitive answer. My parents and other older relatives back up the poison theory and overall they have proven to be very reliable sources of tradtitions and customs.

EDIT: I can't spell

Edited June 24, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[Ben Hong]

As for the chopsticks, it good entertainment after the meal.  Give it a try.

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Give it a try? I value my self respect and am thankful for my upbringing. Thanks anyway.

On the subject of materials for chopsticks (not drumsticks), silver and ivory were reputed to be indicators of a poison in food...or so the Chinese say too.

[glossyp]

My husband will be meeting with some real experts at the Korean Cultural Center tomorrow and will have a definitive answer. My parents and other older relatives back up the poison theory and overall they have proven to be very reliable sources of tradtitions and customs.

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Thanks! I appreciate him (and you) taking the time to follow up on this for me. I look forward to learning more.

[touaregsand]

Did metal chopsticks evolve from the historical use of silver chopsticks? And were chopsticks silver because silver would discolor in the presence of poison?

Yes. Confirmed.

I also had a dissappointing little discussion regarding 'authentic' recipes and flavors with a woman from a Korean cooking school.

[glossyp]

Did metal chopsticks evolve from the historical use of silver chopsticks? And were chopsticks silver because silver would discolor in the presence of poison?

Yes. Confirmed.

I also had a dissappointing little discussion regarding 'authentic' recipes and flavors with a woman from a Korean cooking school.

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Thanks so much. And do tell us what was "dissappointing" in the discussion? Maybe a new thread would be appropriate? At any rate, I am very curious and I'm sure others are as well.

[touaregsand]

She started the whole discussion. Her responses were dismissive initially. Basically she is an "authentic true Korean" and I am too "Americanized" to understand "authentic". She tried to get away with it untill I pointed out some glaring facts and where my point of view comes from.

I have a copy of the curriculum from the school she teaches at. I'm tempted to insert a slew of emoticons here.

Depressing that someone like her has the money to operate a cooking school where she is free to perpetuate shoddy cultural and culinary information. I tasted her kimchi and bulgogi. Sure it's authentic if one defines authentic as the type of food you would fine in a basement restaurant in an apartment building in Seoul.

She has no sense of terroir or history. She knows all simply because she is soooooo Korean.

[Ben Hong]

She has no sense of terroir or history. She knows all simply because she is soooooo Korean.

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Not to force too sharp a "virage" to the thread, but J-Y you've discovered what I myself discovered a long time ago and that is the so-called "experts" are experts only at selling their little bit of knowledge to the uninitiated populace. I have had my share of run-ins with that kind of montebank and it is always gratifying to mash arrogant practitioners of false demaguogery into the ground.

I also find offensive, people who though not of a particular culture become "experts" in that culture simply because of their tangential or incidental association with that particular culture. That's not to say that a person not of a certain culture can't be knowledgable and expert. But, he's got to earn his chops and rspect people who were born and raised in the medium.

[Soup]

Acutally, I've heard the "too americanized" a number of times in my life and it doens't really bother me. I can even understand that my pallet, because I have live in this country for over 30 years, may be different from a "true" korean. However, I would argue that with all the regional differences in korean cooking you'd be hard press to find one true pallet or even the one true recipe for anything. I've seen enough variation in korean dishes to know that they are never exactly the same.

For anyone to say that his or her recipe is the "truth" or that a non-koreans cannot appreciate its finer points of korean culture, they are promoting the views that have made some aspects of korean society xenophophic. I'm not sure where this comes from but I think the holyer than thou attitute really stinks. You may not be from the "right" culture, have the proper upbringing or is knowleadable about the cusine. However, the great thing about food is that everyone can decide for themselves what they like and how they choose to eat it.

Soup