Dinner Guests Don't Return Favor

[JPW]

I think no one should ever have children again - ever, no place in the world - ever.

Think of all the problems that would solve. Within 100 years or so there would true world peace.

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Rich, I'm guessing your just looking to ruffle some parents feathers with you're well thought out comment. Peace to you.

I gets pretty annoying after a while, as a parent to read some of the foolish comments on this forum when it comes to children. As its been said elsewhere, there are no bad children only bad parenting. My $.02.

-jeff

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I took Rich as being sarcastic above. In which case it was somewhat amusing.

[jsolomon]

Hmm, I must be a social pariah. I don't entertain much for a couple of reasons:

People with my food tastes generally exclude people with my social tastes,

and People with my social tastes generally exclude people with my food tastes.

But, if someone invites me over to their house, I try to bring something that is going to be genuinely appreciated by them. Usually (given that most of my friends are young, just starting out professionals) it tends to be some form of labor. I come over and help them with gardening, tree-trimming, bicycle-maintenance, etc.

One of my friends, I give swimming training to, as well.

[Tess]

Misa here's something else for you to consider, someday most of your friends will grow up and probably have kids-it happens. You keep up your mature attitude toward children and you won't have to worry much about inviting or invites, no parent will want you around with your "don't want to deal with that" attitude toward thier children. Unwarranted rudeness to children is untolerable, just because you're not into it yourelf.

I think Misa's attitude is perfectly mature. She's not dissing other people for having kids; she's just not into them herself. It seems to me by not having them over she's avoiding being rude to them.

I love kids. A lot of my friends have them, including young ones, and I often have them over. It does lend another dimension to entertaining, though. And I'm lucky that my dog loves kids. Oh, and that my friends have trained their kids to eat whatever the adults are eating.

[Tess]

Thought readers of this thread would like to see this letter from today's Washington Post in response to the article that started the thread.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5051901572.html

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It's a lot easier to meet in a restaurant. At least there you don't have anything invested, and you can pay your own way or alternate treating.

But, when the party is at my house, I can drink as much as I like and not worry about driving home! (Isn't that the biggest reason to throw parties?)

[Jaymes]

I think that most of my guests are quite intimidated by my cooking.  When it comes to members of the eGullet Society, few would be intimidated or even overly impressed by what I put on the table.  When it comes to the vast majority of my friends, however, I'm considered a top-notch cook.  And they're afraid to cook for me. 

That's me, too. Other food folk would not even be impressed, but my "regular" friends ARE intimidated. They've said so. One woman said to me, as my husband and I walked in through her front door for a dinner party she felt obliged to give for work reasons, "I'm a nervous wreck. It's like the IG is coming for dinner."

That hurt my feelings. I'm always just happy to be invited. I enjoy the camaradrie, the wine, the laughter and being out of my house far more than I am interested in judging the quality of the food.

[herbacidal]

I don't return the favor myself, in terms of having a party and inviting people over.

I often will bring wine or something else, and often try to help clean up and/or prepare things.

[bloviatrix]

I'm going to admit that there are some people I don't want to reciprocate to. I don't like them and I want them to stop inviting me to their home!

[racheld]

Do you keep going?

[sacre_bleu]

We prefer to have people over, so we don't count on reciprocation. Most regulars at my table know that if I want them to bring something, I'll ask. Wine, cheeses, drinks, particular vegetables or ingredients, a nice green salad all arrive that way. No problem. Of course, more wine and such is always appreciated.

You gotta train your guests, and give them a push. Don't be shy and expect people to read your mind. Usually all it takes to get help with the dishes is for me to stand up after we're done eating and start washing them.

[bloviatrix]

Do you keep going?

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I'm running out of excuses as to why I can't accept. Worse is when they corner us face-to-face after synagogue services and invite us to come for lunch. They tend to hit my husband first who is a much worse liar than I am.

Edited May 20, 2005 by bloviatrix (log)

[rich]

One thing DH and I would NOT do, however, is invite over couples with children, unless we knew a tactful way to make sure that they had a babysitter. Why? We don't have a childfriendly home. Our animals aren't very kid-friendly (my dog doesn't mind a pet or two, but stop means stop-this-second and my cat is... testy). And furthermore, mainly, in fact, we don't WANT children in our home. There's a reason that we have no children ourself... we're not really child-friendly people. But, in the same regards, we very rarely accept dinner invitations from a couple with children because we don't want to have to deal with that. At all. (We solve this problem by not having many friends with children!)

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here's what we say when we want to invite over our friends and not the kids, we say "would you like to join us for an adult dinner party?" that pretty much clues them into the need for a babysitter.

Misa here's something else for you to consider, someday most of your friends will grow up and probably have kids-it happens. You keep up your mature attitude toward children and you won't have to worry much about inviting or invites, no parent will want you around with your "don't want to deal with that" attitude toward thier children. Unwarranted rudeness to children is untolerable, just because you're not into it yourelf.

Back when I was younger, I too, thought that I didn't want to have children. I now have three, and they happen to know how to behave when mom and dad throw an adult dinner party. Never say never.

I think no one should ever have children again - ever, no place in the world - ever.

Think of all the problems that would solve. Within 100 years or so there would true world peace.

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Rich, I'm guessing your just looking to ruffle some parents feathers with you're well thought out comment. Peace to you.

I gets pretty annoying after a while, as a parent to read some of the foolish comments on this forum when it comes to children. As its been said elsewhere, there are no bad children only bad parenting. My $.02.

-jeff

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I was being funny/sarcastic because of the number of negative children comments. My statement, if taken literally, means the human race would cease to exist in 100 years or so if no one had children anymore. But the last part might be true - that may be the only way to achieve world peace.

[bleachboy]

I think it depends on the friends.

Ruth and Marcus, friends of ours (my wife and I), invite us over to their house all the time, and we to ours, and I love going over to their place because they generally cook stuff unlike the type of thing I would normally cook.

Another couple, Chek and Carrie, never cook for us. Why? They just don't cook. I don't mind that, 'cause I've known Chek for years and years and years and he's just not into cooking. Usually when I invite them over it's because I'm cooking some meat item (my wife is a vegetarian, and you can only eat so many leftovers). I love their company as well, mostly because they're incredibly gracious.

But then there's another long-time friend who I won't even try for any more. The reason? He's the type of guy who thinks that cooking is woman's work, and you can put a dish in front of him that took you days to make (and I have), he'll wolf it down, and then you gotta ask "how was it?". "Pretty good." He gets hot dogs when he comes to visit.

A little graciousness goes a long way! Us home cooks love compliments. I'd be willing to say that, apart from my own love of the cooking process coupled with the fun of the eating process, I'm cookin' for compliments. Give me none and you're unlikely to be fed well in the future.

[bleachboy]

Oh, and one other thing -- a great point mentioned in the article -- a handwritten thank-you note gets you automatically on my "angel list". My wife and I always try to send them, it only takes a minute. And in this day and age of quick phone calls and emails, a handwritten, snail-mail note means a lot to me.

[lesfen]

In our freaky little cult of friends, we all have children under the age of 4. If there's a dinner party at someone's home, you assume that the kids will be there. That's just how it is. "Hey, it's (someone's) birthday... meet at the (insert family name here) at 5." We all make due. But if we're going out on the town... call a babysitter. If I know the kids are going to be there, I make adjustments. You'd be surprised at the die-hards tho'... kids go to bed at 9 (everyone makes sure that the place is ready for a munchkin slumber party), the real party starts at 9:30.

FYI... I'm braving my fear of entertaining by hosting my rehearsal dinner. There will be a few children involved, including my own, but I will reap more comfort by locking the dog in the basement. In the battle of annoyance... 18-month-old child vs. 4-year-old boxer... the dog gets locked in the basement every time.

[jzchef23]

It's all about the friends old and new. If you are the host most of the time, be thankful that your friends keep showing up! One reply stated that it's about getting together. As long as I have friends, I will host everything from full blown Luas to post theater dessert/nitecaps whether it's reciprocated or not. What you can do is collaborate on a dinner party with someone to perhaps spark thier interest in hostin one? Make them interactive and eventually, others will follow...

My 2 cents...:)

[Jaymes]

Misa here's something else for you to consider, someday most of your friends will grow up and probably have kids-it happens. You keep up your mature attitude toward children and you won't have to worry much about inviting or invites, no parent will want you around with your "don't want to deal with that" attitude toward thier children. Unwarranted rudeness to children is untolerable, just because you're not into it yourelf.

I think Misa's attitude is perfectly mature. She's not dissing other people for having kids; she's just not into them herself. It seems to me by not having them over she's avoiding being rude to them.

I love kids. A lot of my friends have them, including young ones, and I often have them over. It does lend another dimension to entertaining, though. And I'm lucky that my dog loves kids. Oh, and that my friends have trained their kids to eat whatever the adults are eating.

People have a perfect right to want to entertain grownups at a grownup party without children there. No matter how adorable or well-behaved children are, they are still children. And smoked salmon and caviar appetizers and Martinis and your crystal and good china, for example, are not appropriate for them. There was a time in my life where, for about 15 years' worth, because of my husband's profession and position, we had some sort of party, or dinner, or luncheon, or tea, or coffee, or other meeting, or hosted something in our home, or elsewhere, that involved food and drink, at least three times a week. Everything from elegant brunches, to small dinner parties, to all-day bridge parties including breakfast and lunch and table snacks and prizes, to patio parties, to backyard BBQ's, to a Halloween party in a local cave, to road rallys, to enormous dinners for 60 and more. I raised three kids and am perfectly fond of children. But not every event is well-suited for them. If I was having an adult-only event, I'd say (to the people that I knew were problems regarding having to bring their children everywhere), "And I really haven't made any plans for children this time. Perhaps we'll have a family picnic sometime soon." (And I would.) Yes, I did have some folks that refused to attend without their kids. And most of them seriously believed that they could coerce and intimidate me by saying, "Well, then, we can't come if our children aren't welcome," thinking I'd relent (talk about rude). But instead, I'd just say, "Certainly they're welcome another time. But not this time. I'm sorry. We'll miss you." When I had an "adults only" get together, I'd hire a babysitter to sit in the back bedrooms and entertain my children. Or take them to a kid-friendly restaurant. Or a movie. Or skating. Or something.

If Misa's home does not lend itself to hosting children, then that's her perogative and she shouldn't be pilloried.

And also, to those folks that think they can't reciprocate because they don't have the space. There's ALWAYS something you can do, if you have it in your heart that you want to do something. We once spent three months in Montgomery, Alabama, while my husband attended a school there. Another couple, who were also attending that school, invited us (including our children) for dinner twice during the first month. They happened to live in Montgomery and had a lovely home. We, on the other hand, were jammed into a small 1-bedroom apartment with a "kitchenette," that was really just a small fridge, two burners, and a sink. My husband and I and our toddler and our newborn barely fit in there ourselves (what with cribs and playpens and big wheels and other assorted Kid Krap), and there certainly was no way to entertain. We were young, just starting out, and couldn't afford to take them to a nice restaurant. So we did a little scouting, found a pleasant city park with some BBQ grills, picked up a few steaks and some weiners for the kids and a bag of briquettes. I made up a big pot of beans, and bought some baking potatoes and a couple more sides. And a cooler which we stocked with soft drinks and beer. And there you go. A lovely evening, eating and laughing and talking while the kids, ours and theirs, ran and tumbled and played on the swingsets.

Reciprocity. It's a beautiful thang.

But it ain't the only thang.

And now, I entertain when I want. And I entertain whom I want. And I don't give a rip if they invite me back or not.

Although, frankly, most of them do.

Edited May 22, 2005 by Jaymes (log)

[ruthcooks]

Years ago, after many years of not being invited for dinner because of people being intimidated by my cooking, my ex and I received three, count 'em, three, invitations for dinner during the Christmas holidays.

I must mention that I intensely dislike every lasagna I have ever eaten, with one exception. On my list of "way too much work for the results", lasagna is numero uno. I can never understand why everyone seems to like it, and why anyone would want to go to so much trouble to make it.

So, first dinner party, we were served, you guessed it: lasagna. Because this was at the home of a friend who was an excellent cook, plus married to an Italian, this meal was more than tolerable to me. She served multiple courses and everything else was wonderful, so I didn't think much about it.

Second dinner party was at the home of a business acquaintance and his wife, both known to me, whom we had entertained in our home many times. What did they serve? Lasagna. The wife was what the ex called "a weeds and seeds person", meaning she was a hippie who wore long dresses and sandals and her hair in a long braid down her back. Her lasagna was vegetarian. Hmmm. We're not talking spinach, red pepper and wild mushrooms with a lovely Bechamel here, we're talking carrot and celery lasagna. Good grief.

You've probably already guessed what we were served at the third dinner party.

Another business acquaintance, whose wife did not cook. I can't remember this lasagna, I was so dazed at meeting my nemesis once again. I do remember that she had bought REAL whipping cream for the strawberry shortcake and that I had to tutor her in the kitchen on how to whip it. She really tried and I appreciated that.

I didn't let on to anyone how I felt about lasagna, but it did tend to wear me down. These women went to a lot of trouble to impress me, and could have done better by just throwing a steak on the grill. Or even a hamburger.

And that lasagna I liked? Totally atypical, just the noodles, alfredo sauce, and fresh seafood.

[Behemoth]

Ruth, I think it may be a midwestern thing. I have no idea why, but I'd say a good 3 out of 5 dinners we get invited to end up being lasagna. My theory is that it is a gussied up version of "hotdish".

edit: Real from-scratch lasagna bolognese is a transcendent experience. Lasagna made with kraft singles is um -- not so much (Having said that, I like pasta, tomatoes and cheese well enough that it would be really hard to make a version I would absolutely hate. Which come to think of it, is probably the point. Meh, I've had worse things.)

Edited May 21, 2005 by Behemoth (log)

[ruthcooks]

You could be right about the Midwest, but this took place in Tennessee and only one couple was Midwestern (the Dakotas, which seems more plains-like); the others were from the East coast and Florida. I have noticed that it seems to be a fairly universal belief that "Everybody likes lasagna."

[Chris Amirault]

I have noticed that it seems to be a fairly universal belief that "Everybody likes lasagna."

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I believe that that belief is held by the lasagna makers, and not necessarily by the lasagna recipients. In this way, lasagna may be quite like fruit cake.

As it turns out, lasagna plays an important role in our recent dinner guest life. When we were discussing our food plans in the month or so prior to our new daughter's arrival with a frequent guest couple of ours, I blurted, "We're trying to stock our freezer so we won't have to eat the trays of shitty lasagna that are bound to find their way into the house." You can probably guess what they were planning to bring over....

Oopsie.

[Behemoth]

Oopsie.

We must be running with a much more mainstream crowd these days. The cliche food of my old crowd was hummus, garden-burgers and vegan curry.

Have you noticed that there are as many complaints on this thread of unreturned invites as there have been complaints about the quality of other people's food? We may have answered our own question here...

[touaregsand]

I have noticed that it seems to be a fairly universal belief that "Everybody likes lasagna."

Way over here in Los Angeles I am aware of this belief.

When did it start? I feel sometime in the 70's. But then again I didn't move to the States untill 1975.

[Pam R]

Have you noticed that there are as many complaints on this thread of unreturned invites as there have been complaints about the quality of other people's food? We may have answered our own question here...

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We may have implied this earlier.... wait - Do you think that people aren't reciprocating because they feel their food is inferior or they think OUR food is crap and they don't have to return the invite because we've served them dreck??

hmmm

Edited May 22, 2005 by Pam R (log)

[Behemoth]

We may have implied this earlier.... wait - Do you think that people aren't reciprocating because they feel their food is inferior or they think OUR food is crap and they don't have to return the invite because we've served them dreck??

  hmmm

Ha ha, I've decided to not let that bother me. I blithely serve whatever I feel like serving.

As for the lasagna, keep in mind that the way it is usually prepared, it actually is an easy dish to make. Somehow people have this mistaken idea that a wad of no-boil noodles, jarred meat sauce and plastic cheese food from a baggie is something one is allowed, with a clear moral conscience, to inflict upon one's guests.

[touaregsand]

Pam

It's US against THEM.

There is nothing wrong with US.

It is always THEM.

You must repeat this untill you are a true believer.