Joong & Joongzi: The Topic

[Domestic Goddess]

I'm thinking about making a small batch of joong as I've got frozen banana leaves and chinese sausage in the freezer. Would it be okay to eliminate the peanuts? Hmm, maybe just add peeled chestnuts instead?

[Dejah]

I'm thinking about making a small batch of joong as I've got frozen banana leaves and chinese sausage in the freezer. Would it be okay to eliminate the peanuts? Hmm, maybe just add peeled chestnuts instead?

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Chestnuts are fine in joong - just different texture from the peanuts.

Please post a picture when they are done.

Rona:

I couldn't handle the idea of foil wrapping either! My teeth were hurting.

With joong, they are boiled as raw rice is used, so I don't think parchment would survive. With nor mai fan, the parchment could work as the steaming time would be relatively short.

I can't think of any other wrapper to use. My s-i-l makes nor mai fan without wrapping in her steamer - more like lap mai fan, I guess.

Dried bamboo leaves are quite compact. Could "Mom" not tuck a package in her suitcase? They could be used again if you're careful in opening them. Lotus leaves are quite fragile, so they would be difficult to transport.

ETA: I have a container of chicken/mushroom/lap cheung bao filling leftover. It's juicy, but I'm going to try to use it in leen yeep jong today. Daughter is in study mode for finals, so she needs good old Chinese food for sustenance.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Dejah (log)

[sheetz]

If I wanted to make joong or nor mai gai, but I couldn't get bamboo leaves, banana leaves, or lotus leaves, what could I use instead?  Could I use parchment paper? 

You might be able to use grape leaves for small, appetizer sized nor mai gai. It would taste different, of course, yet at the same time it'd be a totally Chinese thing to do as you could actually eat the entire thing. No waste!

[junehl]

Hmm, if you can't get any dry lotus leave or banana leaves...

What about cabbage leaves? Just parcook it slightly to get the leaves flexible? Not sure what that would do the to the taste. And I'm not sure Napa cabbage would work because it might leak too much water...you might have to use the other kinds of cabbage.

[Domestic Goddess]

I made Joongzi!!!! Here you go Dejah...

After steaming it for 30 minutes....

For the filling I added Chinese roast pork, chinese sausage, mushrooms, salted egg yolks.

Breaking it open to reveal the goodies inside.

That was soooo good. I got 3 more packages to eat. Two will go to the freezer (for those nights when I get hungry). And one package for my supper tonight.

[Dejah]

Doddie! Yum!

Did you use raw rice? 30 minutes of steaming was enough? Or, did you use pre-cooked rice, then wrap and steam?

Did any get into the freezer?

[Domestic Goddess]

Dejah, I used pre-cooked rice (cooked slightly with chicken stock). The 30 minutes steaming was enough since all my ingredients were cooked (chinese roast pork/sausage, salted egg yolk) except for the reconstituted dried mushrooms.

Only 2 packages made it to the freezer and I'm hoarding that until I get to make a bigger batch with mung beans and lotus leaves this time.

[Ce'nedra]

Domestic Goddess: That looks really delicious! Was it easy to make? It looks a bit out of my league

[Tepee]

Well done, DG! You've created instant nouveau joong.....what a time-saver!

[Domestic Goddess]

Cenedra - it was not really that hard. The hard part I guess was soaking the rice overnight, and then steaming it. Oh and also cooking the Chinese roast pork. I had to cook mine since I can't buy it readily here in Korea. The chinese sausages were sent to me by my Mom.

Teepee - and it tastes like the real thing! I've always ordered Joong back in Manila in the old chinese restaurants in Binondo. Now I know how to make my own.

[Fugu]

Domestic Goddess, that looks yummy! Now I'm hungry for some as well! I now realize why I like Joongzi, the way you've wrapped yours sort of reminds me of our bland sweet suman snacks.

[junehl]

So I had this great experiment. I was going to make nor mi gai. I was going to use 3 types of rice and see how they all react. So I used sushi rice, glutinous rice, and this new rice i'm in love with Koshihikari rice.

I wanted to see how it would taste between the three different rices. I soaked all three rices over night. Next day I was soooo happy to get started on it. I packaged it all up, steamed it for 1 hour....not yet done...then 2 hours...figured it should be good enough if not, then it ain't gonna work.

Glutinous rice - ok, somehow mine wasn't as soft and good as I've had it, but passable.

Koshihikari - like undercooked rice, but edible.

Sushi rice - horrid, didn't eat it, didn't want it, still figuring how to throw it away.

So I had them for dinner last night, and I was extremely disappointed...no pictures, b/c well too disappointed to take any. Though I will make it again and figure out why mine didn't come out nice and creamy...may try precooking them, like Doddie (Domestic goddess) did, maybe that'll help w/ the sushi and koshihikari rice b/c I think those takes a lot more water.

Edited December 6, 2007 by junehl (log)

[Dejah]

Though I will make it again and figure out why mine didn't come out nice and creamy...may try precooking them, like Doddie (Domestic goddess) did, maybe that'll help w/ the sushi and koshihikari rice b/c I think those takes a lot more water.

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June,

What did you wrap the rice in? For raw rice, you really do need to submerge and boil the packets for at least 2 hours to get that creamy smooth texture. The way the packets are wrapped also helps to "mush" the grains of rice together to get that texture.

You can't boil the packets if you use leen yeep (lotus leaves), of course. I don't know about banana leaves - perhaps if they're fresh ones and not frozen.

When I make leen yeep joong, the rice and filling are all cooked, combined, then steamed to get that special flavour from the leaves.

Good experiment tho'. Thanks for the report!

[prasantrin]

Can this be a joong and nor mi gai topic, or shall I break off to ask my nor mi gai questions? My mother arrived last night with all the ingredients for our dim sum extravaganza, and although customs took away one of her packs of Chinese sausage, she managed to get away with at least one!

[Dejah]

Can this be a joong and nor mi gai topic, or shall I break off to ask my nor mi gai questions?  My mother arrived last night with all the ingredients for our dim sum extravaganza, and although customs took away one of her packs of Chinese sausage, she managed to get away with at least one!

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I thought there was a nor mai gai thread in here somewhere?

But, I don't think you need to break off if there isn't such a thread.

Looking forward to your experiments.

School's out for me, so I might follow suit!

[junehl]

Dejah, We're supposed to boil the rice first when using lotus leaves ? Oh my, no wonder it didn't work for me.

OK, I'll have to do it right this time, and try the experiment again next week. I knew my granny had always boiled her joonzi, but I never did understand that...thought they just didn't want to steam 'em.

[prasantrin]

How come no one told me that 1 cup of raw glutinous rice would only make 2 nor mai gai?

Time to soak more rice!

[hzrt8w]

How come no one told me that 1 cup of raw glutinous rice would only make 2 nor mai gai?    

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It depends on the size of your cup and the size of your nor mai gai! If you make those miniature (again) nor mai gai like some restaurants, 1 cup of rice can yield 5 to 6 gai's or more! They are already at the size of a duck egg. I think pretty soon I will find them the size of my thumb.

[prasantrin]

It depends on the size of your cup and the size of your nor mai gai!      If you make those miniature (again) nor mai gai like some restaurants, 1 cup of rice can yield 5 to 6 gai's or more!  They are already at the size of a duck egg.  I think pretty soon I will find them the size of my thumb.  

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My cup is a standard 250mL cup, and I thought my nor mai gai were the usual size! But maybe I'm super-sizing them--I've never made them before, so what do I know? I have pictures of the two I made last night (pre-steamed), and am steaming more rice as I type. I'm making 3 more cups of raw rice, which should give me enough for the remaining 6 leaves I soaked. I hope! I'm having problems with lotus leaf breakage, though, so I might have to eat some of that rice plain. Poor me! The things I suffer for eGullet!

My pictures of my first two nor mai gai. As you can see, I needed help with wrapping the first two--I kind of sucked at it, and my rice isn't nearly as tightly packed as it should be. But the subsequent 6 I made this morning are much better. I haven't steamed them, yet, but will do so tonight after we get back from Kyoto.

My mise--the filling is a combination of Tepee's chicken bao filling and leftover hum sui gok filling, along with 1/8th piece of Chinese sausage. There's only 1/8 piece because they're too precious to use up in nor mai gai. I should have made more slices from that one sausage, though, because I didn't get any in my share!

The first layer of rice with filling.

Topped with another layer of rice (is this how you're supposed to fill them?).

My two very sloppily wrapped nor mai gai. I steam in my tamais (tamis?) because that's all I have).

Unwrapped--you can see how loose the rice is.

Innards--gee, that sausage looks a bit..ummm...

It tasted much better than it looks!

Off to Kyoto now.

Edited December 20, 2007 by prasantrin (log)

[Dejah]

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I'm having problems with lotus leaf breakage, though, so I might have to eat some of that rice plain. Poor me! The things I suffer for eGullet!

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Did you Mom take the leaves over for you? Did they crumble in travel?

You DID soak the leaves for several hours, or overnight so that they are pliable, or as Ah Leung did in his pictorial, covered with boiling water?

Me thinks you're just making the excuse-to-eat-just-filling up.

[prasantrin]

Did you Mom take the leaves over for you? Did they crumble in travel?

You DID soak the leaves for several hours, or overnight so that they are pliable, or as Ah Leung did in his pictorial, covered with boiling water?

Me thinks you're just making the excuse-to-eat-just-filling up.

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My mom did bring them, and the edges crumbled a bit, but it wasn't too bad. Most of them were split it spots, though, and that's what cause the trouble. The first two I made, I rolled them in such a way that exposed some of the rice through the splits. But the next morning (fresh from a good night's sleep?), I figured out how I should be rolling them to get them tighter, and to prevent the rice from peeping out through the splits.

Oh, I did soak them in hot water first. The recipe I had said to only soak them for an hour, and I soaked them for maybe 3 hours with hot water (not boiling, but 60C which is the hottest my tap water gets). They were quite pliable, but maybe I should be getting them more pliable. I think, though, that the bucket I used for soaking may have contributed to the splitting, because I had to sort of cram them in. I should have used my tub, but I didn't feel like cleaning it.

And I'll have you know, I used all the rice from the second batch! And all my filling, too, so no leftovers to eat on their own!

I really like my sticky rice. The flavour of the first two was great, the only problem was the looseness of the rice. But I think my remaining 6 will be spot on. Now I just have to figure out how to freeze them. Kathy Man said in her class (according to my mother) that they could be frozen, just thaw and resteam, but I read somewhere (here probably) that they shouldn't be frozen. Do I dare?

One more question...is it nor mai gai or lor mai gai? I found both names, but there didn't seem to be a difference between the recipes.

Edited December 21, 2007 by prasantrin (log)

[Dejah]

I have frozen hundreds of leen yeep joong - the proper name for these. I usually made a large batch, freeze and send them back with the kids when they go back to Wpg. They don't even resteam them before eating - just zap em in the microwave to reheat.

The small bucket might have contributed to some of the cracks. One thing my Mom always said, with both bamboo and lotus leaves - DON'T cram or push them down! Use a large container with water to cover. Next time - prasantrin...

ETA: As for putting the filling together, I used to do it the same way you did. Then I started mixing the rice and filling together before scooping it onto the leaves for wrapping. I like this way better as the filling and flavours are mixed throughout the rice.

I'm so happy that you made all these things with your Mom!

Edited December 21, 2007 by Dejah (log)

[prasantrin]

The small bucket might have contributed to some of the cracks. One thing my Mom always said, with both bamboo and lotus leaves - DON'T cram or push them down! Use a large container with water to cover. Next time - prasantrin...

Oops... I kind of thought it wasn't a good thing, but I went ahead because I was too lazy to do anything else! Next time I guess I'll have to clean my tub! (And there will definitely be a next time--I still have some lotus leaves to use up! )

ETA: As for putting the filling together, I used to do it the same way you did. Then I started mixing the rice and filling together before scooping it onto the leaves for wrapping. I like this way better as the filling and flavours are mixed throughout the rice.

I'm so happy that you made all these things with your Mom!

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Thanks for the tips about freezing and reheating. The easier the better!

About filling, do you sort of squeeze the rice together to make it more compact? Even my more tightly rolled ones aren't as compact as the ones we get in dim sum. The rice is kind of loose, but I think I'd like it to be a little tighter. That would mean squishing the rice more, though.

And I just have to add...my mother and I had a good laugh because she did not make anything with me! She kept warm in my Tempur futon bed (which isn't even her bed while she's here!) watching TV while I slaved over all the dim sum stuff! Sometimes when I wanted her to taste something, I'd have to bring it over to her, so she wouldn't have to get out of my bed! She's really spoiled!

[hzrt8w]

.....She kept warm in my Tempur futon bed (which isn't even her bed while she's here!) watching TV while I slaved over all the dim sum stuff!  Sometimes when I wanted her to taste something, I'd have to bring it over to her, so she wouldn't have to get out of my bed!  She's really spoiled! 

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LOL! That's what I would do too. If you are willing to go through the torture of making dim sum, you wouldn't mind walking a few extra steps would you?

[infernooo]

You have plenty of time to salt your eggs for joong. At my local Safeway store, I can buy double yolk chicken eggs. This way, I can "kill 2 birds......"  

Make sure the brine is strong enough. Test this by floating an egg in it. If it floats, it's strong enough. Let the brine cool completely, then add the eggs. Place a plate on top to keep the eggs submerged. The yolks should be ready to use in 3-4 weeks. Test one at 3 weeks.

I've had good luck with store bought salted eggs, so I won't bother brining my own. So little time, so much to do!

I am down to my last 6 joong in the freezer. Po-PO is already talking about "how much slower" she will be this year at age 98.

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When making the salted eggs, should they be kept in the fridge while they are curing/salting or just in a dark/dry space or... ?

Also, I assume they should be raw when you put them into the brine and as they cure, the inside hardens?

Last question :-) , are these salted eggs you are giving a recipe for the same as the "thousand year old" eggs you buy from the store? (i.e. the strong smelling ones with translucent egg white and weird coloured yolk)

Edited December 25, 2007 by infernooo (log)