It's Brewing Time Again

[nr706]

Rauchbiers, on the other hand, utilize malted barley which has been dried over a wood fire. They are remarkably smoky

Interesting article in today's Chicago Tribune on rauchbiers.

[nr706]

The smoked oatmeal stout sounds good just the way it is.  I wouldn't add grains of paradise.  They have a pungent, peppery aroma and flavor and also add some bitterness.  They aren't as strong as black pepper, but there is a distinct aroma and flavor of pepper.  I use grains of paradise in some Belgian-style beers and also my award winning pepper mead (black pepper and grains of paradise).  Still, not sure I would mess with the stout.  Even the cocoa, though it sounds good, can mess up your simple, perfectly good smoked stout.  IF you just have to add something, maybe some lactose for some sweetness and more mouthfeel.  Let us know what you decide.

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With both CaraPils and CaraVienne in the grain bill (plus the oatmeal), I don't think I'll need to boost mouthfeel. It's now in the secondary, and despite Okbrewer's excellent advice, I added grains of paradise, cocoa, coffee and molasses. BUT, all are at what I believe will be barely perceptible levels - the concept is to "complex it up" a bit; no one will be able to detect any of those additions specifically. "There's an interesting taste in there that I can't quite identify" is the comment I'm hoping for.

Anyone else have experience with this kind of approach?

[cdh]

Recently got my Oud Bruin out of my primary fermentor and divided it into thirds... two of them are sitting sealed (but unprimed) for a long rest, and one I decided to dump a kilo of sour cherries into, so it bubbling away under an airlock. Must say that the ounce of oak chips was potent... oak is the predominant flavor in the samples I tasted while moving the beer around...

How do others use oak in their brewing? An ounce of chips spending 2 weeks in 5 gallons sure seemed to do a potent magic on the beer... do people leave the oak in for longer periods of time, use more or less, etc? How long does an oaked beer have to age to mellow and integrate the oak flavors?

I'm counting on this beer resting for a good long time, since the souring bugs in the Roeselare culture are supposed to take upwards of 6 months to ramp up the tartness after the yeast are done converting the sugars to alcohols... or so I've read elsewhere... and the reported technique of the Rodenbach brewery seems to back up this plan. Their beers are either blends of fresh beers and beers aged in oak for at least a year, or just the oak aged older beers... so I'm comfortable with the lack of palatability in the young beer I've got now. Now I just hope that it does as expected and improves with age.

Once I freed up my fermentor I put a batch of my tea infused witbier in to ferment, and as usual it is going crazy bubbling away. That will be the summer consumption beer...

[Okbrewer]

Chris, That oakiness will mellow/fade with time. You're planning to age it anyway, so it should be more subtle by the time you're ready to drink it. Problem is, how are you going to keep from sampling it!?

I finally got around to brewing this past weekend, but only had time for an extract batch. I steeped some 80L crystal and vienna malts, added 6.6 pounds malt extract (gold), 1 pound each of honey and candi sugar; for hops used N. Brewer at 60 minutes and Zatec D'or (Saaz derivative) at 30 and 15 minutes and at finish, I may even dry hop with some more Zatec. Added coriander and orange peel and used witbier yeast, hoping for something Saison-like.

Next time out I need to make my summer time beer: Cream ale.

[cdh]

Chris,  That oakiness will mellow/fade with time.  You're planning to age it anyway, so it should be more subtle by the time you're ready to drink it.  Problem is, how are you going to keep from sampling it!? 

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Keeping it flat sure helps with preventing sampling. I'm considering doing it entirely force carbonated rather than bottle conditioning... there is already a big layer of dropped yeast at the bottom of my secondaries, so I'll need to rack it again into something...

That saison recipe sounds simple and likely to be quite tasty. The simple ones are often really good.

A couple of years ago I decided to do a breakin-the-rules brew and steeped a whole pound of Special B in 6 lbs of light DME. So much for all those warnings about keeping the Special B at 1/4 lb per 5 gallons... this beer was good!

Need to do more experimental brews. Maybe I'll need to concoct a recipe to toss onto the yeast cake at the bottom of the wit that's fermenting now... hmmmmm.... maybe I'll just take yours... though the hops I've got lying around are Magnums, Columbus and Centennials...

[cdh]

Well, my wit is done (or at least retired to its bottles)... though I tossed a bit of the Roeselare culture in after the main fermentation subsided, so this will be a slightly different wit... I think the Rodenbach flavor profile might be fun with a witbier... we'll see.

And I couldn't resist the call of all those empty bottles in my basement, so I did put together another beer to ferment off the sediment from tht wit... 3 lbs ultra light dry extract, 1 lb wheat dry extract, with 6oz each of 20L Crystal, 48L CaraMunich and 145L Special B steeped in. Sort of a light-bodied reddish beer is the thought... Maybe a witty red... maybe I should call this GB Shaw Ale... he was certainly a witty red... hmmmm....

Took a different tack with this brew, having read that malt extracts have already been boiled, so they don't need the really long boil that the hops do... Consequently, I did the steep as usual, the grain into a bag into cold water, onto the burner until the water boiled. This time I tossed the bittering hops (1 oz Magnum) into the cold water with the steeping bag, a feeble attempt at replicating the "first wort hopping" technique that I've also read about recently.

Brought the kettle to a boil and let it boil for 35 minutes before I added any of the DME. Then let the malt boil for just 25 minutes in the hoppy steepy water... added 2.5 oz of finishing hops (1.25 Columbus, 1.25 Centennial) 5 minutes before I took it off the boil. Cooled this batch while bottling the wit, and then diluted it down to 5 gallons and poured it onto the yeast sediment left by the wit. A few hours in, it is bubbling away like mad. I'm considering tossing in the remaining ounce or so of Centennials and Columbus as dry hopping after the main fermentation settles down. I wonder if so light bodied a beer could handle a dry hopping.

Edited May 27, 2005 by cdh (log)

[nr706]

With both CaraPils and CaraVienne in the grain bill (plus the oatmeal), I don't think I'll need to boost mouthfeel. It's now in the secondary, and despite Okbrewer's excellent advice, I added grains of paradise, cocoa, coffee and molasses. BUT, all are at what I believe will be barely perceptible levels - the concept is to "complex it up" a bit; no one will be able to detect any of those additions specifically. "There's an interesting taste in there that I can't quite identify" is the comment I'm hoping for.

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Sampling the beer today, I'm not happy with it. I think I overdid the molasses, resulting in a cidery flavor. But I'm hoping it will age and get better. Drinking it and trying to ignore the cidery quality, it's a pretty interesting brew.

[cdh]

Just a brief update on these projects--

A few lessons learned:

Lesson 1: Roeselare cultures need a long time undisturbed to do their thing and become tasty... four and a half months into this project the first batch is losing its murky flavor and getting the right tartness and complexity. Another month and a half will be a long time to wait, but I think this is going to be a good oud bruin.

Lesson 2: Even if you let another yeast do the heavy lifting like my witbier yeast did, adding the Roeselare culture to that batch delayed its drinkability by months. Now I know that if I want to use the stuff, I have to be prepared to wait it out. That said, the witbier at about four months old is getting quite good, though the continuing slow fermentation that has been going on in the bottles thanks to the Roeselare mix has made this batch extra fizzy and likely to slowly fizz up and crawl out of the bottles when opened. The witbier didn't really benefit much from the Roeselare bugs in there... not a complex enough background to complement the effect, I think. Next year, my witbier will be unadulterated.

I'll report back with a tasting of the oud bruin once it's really ready.

[mtigges]

Just a brief update on these projects--

A few lessons learned:

Lesson 1: Roeselare cultures need a long time undisturbed to do their thing and become tasty...  four and a half months into this project the first batch is losing its murky flavor and getting the right tartness and complexity.  Another month and a half will be a long time to wait, but I think this is going to be a good oud bruin. 

Lesson 2: Even if you let another yeast do the heavy lifting like my witbier yeast did, adding the Roeselare culture to that batch delayed its drinkability by months.  Now I know that if I want to use the stuff, I have to be prepared to wait it out.  That said, the witbier at about four months old is getting quite good, though the continuing slow fermentation that has been going on in the bottles thanks to the Roeselare mix has made this batch extra fizzy and likely to slowly fizz up and crawl out of the bottles when opened.  The witbier didn't really benefit much from the Roeselare bugs in there... not a complex enough background to complement the effect, I think.  Next year, my witbier will be unadulterated.

I'll report back with a tasting of the oud bruin once it's really ready.

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Be very careful of bottle bombs. Brett can ferment to 1.0 SG which depending what the FG was can be dangerous. When it tastes good get the bottles in a fridge, or at least below 10C.

[cdh]

[

Be very careful of bottle bombs.  Brett can ferment to 1.0 SG which depending what the FG was can be dangerous.  When it tastes good get the bottles in a fridge, or at least below 10C.

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Thanks for the concern and the warning. I think I've got that under control by using swingtop bottles... I've noticed a couple of signs of distorted gaskets, which is a sign of venting excess pressure.

[jsolomon]

I'm thinking of starting brewing again (mostly due to this thread) and I have two questions about my setup.

1: I have a woefully underpowered apartment-styled stove. How should I handle having a wort that's slow to temperature?

2: I have no dishwasher. How do you suggest I sterilize bottles?

And I have one question about my recipe.

Suggestions to make? I really like dry-hopped recipes, but I haven't brewed for almost 10 years, so I am looking for something tasty, but pretty simple.

[cdh]

Hmm...

I'd not worry much about the time it takes to get the water up to the boil. The timing becomes important if you're doing all grain brewing and when hops are in the water. The important thing for the hops is the amount of time they spend at a full rolling boil... I've tried late addition of a significant portion of the malt, and with great success... malt extracts have already been boiled in their manufacture, so the need for a long boil to coagulate proteins and such is not really required with them... or so I've read. I generally get a visible hot break in about 15 minutes of boiling.

As to the lack of dishwasher, an easy technique is to fill your bottling bucket with a chlorine bleach and water solution... maybe 4 tablespoons of bleach to 3 gallons of water (ya gotta clean it anyhow), and then submerge as many bottles in that as you can fit... then replace the already sanitized ones with new ones as you take them out. Then give them a quick rinse to get most of the chlorine water out. That kills the beasties pretty well and gets you a sanitized bottling bucket too. If you need to clean out your siphon and bottle filler, then fill a few bottles up by connecting the hose to the spigot on the bottling bucket and run the chlorine through there.

As to recipes, I'm not a dry hopper, so haven't got personal knowledge to share. Where would you go about getting your supplies? Homebrew shop owners are great folks for help concocting recipes. Or look for a kit that appeals to you... morebeer.com, northernbrewer.com and others online have lots of pre-assembled kits for dryhopped beers. Check out the Fire in the Hole kit mentioned at the top of this thread... I used its grain bill for my oud bruin, but it is meant to be a hop monster with substantial dry hopping.

Edited October 4, 2005 by cdh (log)

[nr706]

I'm thinking of starting brewing again (mostly due to this thread) and I have two questions about my setup.

1:  I have a woefully underpowered apartment-styled stove.  How should I handle having a wort that's slow to temperature?

2:  I have no dishwasher.  How do you suggest I sterilize bottles?

And I have one question about my recipe.

Suggestions to make?  I really like dry-hopped recipes, but I haven't brewed for almost 10 years, so I am looking for something tasty, but pretty simple.

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1. Multiple pots for the boil - the more you break it down, and the more burners you use, the faster it'll get to the boil. That said, the speed of getting to the boil isn't nearly as important as the s peed of the chill - that's helped by smaller pots, too.

2. Some people swear by using a dishwasher for their bottles, others swear at it. Detergent residue and rinse agents are not beer-friendly. First of all, your goal is not to sterilize the bottles (getting rid of every possible little bugger), but to sanitize it (getting rid of enough so that the yeasts in your beer can overwhelm anything left in the bottles). I usually let my bottles soak in a very dilute (e.g. 1 tbsp./gal) solution of water and chlorine bleach for an hour or so, then give 'em a good rinse (there are special J-shaped bottle rinsers which make this especially easy). If I'm not bottling right away, I'll cover the top with foil and store them upside down.

For a simple recipe, just crush 7 ± 2 lbs. pale ale malt, maybe a little added crystal, infusion mash around 150°, sparge, boil an hour with bittering hops, maybe throw in some flavor hops at the same time as the Irish Moss, chill and pitch. For dry hopping, add some more hops to the secondary (or use hop oil).

Edited October 4, 2005 by nr706 (log)

[TongoRad]

2:  I have no dishwasher.  How do you suggest I sterilize bottles?

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Here's how I used to do it- I would clean my bottles overnight in a B-Brite solution (1 TBSP per gallon, if I remember correctly)- this gets rid of all of the gunk and even removes labels. Then I would rinse them thoroughly and set them to dry upside down. When it was bottling time I would make up a large container of iodophor solution and submerge the bottles in that. B-Brite cleans and iodophor sanitizes, and the iodophor requires no rinsing so I always felt safest with that method.

And I have one question about my recipe.

Suggestions to make?  I really like dry-hopped recipes, but I haven't brewed for almost 10 years, so I am looking for something tasty, but pretty simple.

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Here is an old favorite that has been in my repertoire since 1993-

Assumptions: 5 ½ Gallon boil, Mash yield of 1.030/lb/gal, 30% utilization, filtered water

Celebration-type ale:

10.5 lb. 2 row malt ( Klages or other fully modified malt)

14 oz. Crystal malt 40L

6 oz. Crystal Malt 120L

Mash for 90 min at 153F

Hop additions-

13 AAU Chinook at 60 min. (53 IBU)

½ oz. Cascade at 10 min.

1 ½ oz. Cascade at 2 min.

Dry hops (in fermenter)-

1 oz. Cascade

1 oz. Centennial

Ferment with Wyeast # 1056 or #1007 at 66-68F

o.g. 1.064/ f.g. 1.014-1.016

FWIW- if you are going to be boiling on a stovetop please resist the temptation to cover the kettle, it could give you DMS problems. Just let the wort come to boil in its own good time.

[Okbrewer]

If you are still located "where there's dirt, cows, grain, and wild food" then you probably have plenty of open space outdoors! Get a propane cooker and a big stainless steel pot and cook outside! That way you can boil the full volume of water and do it much quicker than on the stove. Also, clean up is easier outside.

When you brewed last, were you and extract or all-grain brewer. I see most here assume all-grain, but an extract batch may be what you need to get you back in the game! Check with your local homebrew supply shop for a simple recipe.

Basically, a 4# can/box of malt extract for a 5 gallon batch, add bittering, aroma and flavor hops and then you can dry hop in the fermenter by putting whole hops or plugs in a mesh bag and submerging it in the wort/beer.

I sanitize bottles in a bucket. I use iodophor instead of the bleach mixture recommended, but either will work fine.

Bob R in OKC