Dan Tart Cook-off I

[sheetz]

Thanks for the recipe, Ling. Just one question. Are you sure about the measurements for part 2? If you mixed 24g (about 1/4 cup) of cake flour with an egg and 15 ml of water you'd wind up with a batter, not a dough.

Edited May 22, 2006 by sheetz (log)

[hzrt8w]

I got the recipe for "sou pei" (the pastry used in Chinese egg tarts) from my friend's gf's dad, who works at a Chinese bakery.

Here's the recipe:

Part 1:

lard 30g

cake flour 20 g

Part 2:

.5 g lard

.5 g sugar

15 mL water

24 g cake flour

1 egg

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Thanks for the recipe, Ling. Are these measurements for 1 dan dart? For example, 20 g is less than 1 oz. Using one oz of flour to make the dough does not seem to be practical. Do we need to multiply the number of tarts to the actual weight to get the quantity we should use? In that case, 1 egg per tart for the second part seems a big much. I couldn't quite figure this out.

Edited May 23, 2006 by hzrt8w (log)

[Ling]

^You know what, I asked my friend the same thing when he gave me the recipe. I was like are you SURE the recipe says 30 GRAMS?!! Not 300 grams? And he said he was sure. The recipe doesn't really make sense to me either, but I thought I'd post it and see if you all thought the same...hmmm...

[sheetz]

Well, it's pointless to try the recipe as written because we all know it won't work. That said, IF the ingredient list is correct it provides enough clues to work with. For instance, using cake flour and an egg in the outer dough.

[Apicio]

Just to quickly test the proportion of liquid to flour of Ling’s recipe, I mixed 24 grams of cake flour and 15 grams of water and I obtained a fairly soft dough which with the addition of the lard and sugar can be usable. I don’t think the egg belongs to Part 2 since its addition will turn the dough into a crepe batter. Aside from the egg, the proportion of Part 1 and Part 2 appear to me to be correct although for easier handling this recipe should be doubled or even quadrupled.

I have been following this thread although I have not actually tried any of the recipes because China town is only ten minutes drive from where I live and the dan tarts I get from there are so cheap it is hardly worth the efforth. The crust of the dan tarts I get here has discreet tender flakes and do not appear to have been blind baked. I suspect that that is possible only because the baker use a filling from commercial custard mix. Baking the crust (which requires a fairly hot oven to cook them and make the flakes puff a bit) at the same time as a proper custard (which only requires a bain-marie heat because of the high proportion of eggs) is simply not compatible.

[sheetz]

One of the reasons I want to learn to make these isn't so much that I can't buy them close by(which I can't) but that I want to be able make tartlets with different flavorings and fillings.

Edited May 23, 2006 by sheetz (log)

[Apicio]

Here is a progress report on my quest for acceptable dan tart crust. I tried Ling’s most recent recipe excluding the egg which I consider a red herring. The result was tasteless (lacking in sugar and salt) shrunken greasy crust, very much like over-handled pie crust. The cake flour in the water dough was just too fragile to withstand extrusion but I suspect that the proportion of the oil dough to the water dought might be right. So adjusting for all of these I came up with the following recipe:

Oil dough

200 grams Cake flour

250 grams Lard

Water dough

300 grams All purpose flour

150 grams water

25 grams sugar

50 grams Lard

Followed Ling’s recipe’s turns with lots of rest in between. That is, three turns folded in thirds, fourth turn folded into four. For the final roll divide into two portions for ease of handling. Flatten the dough to as thin as possible giving it a rest if unyielding and follow again with a long rest in the fridge before final cutting otherwise the pieces will shrink into nothingness.

I baked these blind sandwiched between two brioche pans. The finished crusts are tasty and has the crunch and mouthfeel of the shortness of the crust of commercial dan tarts. I am dismayed by the amount of rest that it required though and really wonder how the commercial bakers do it. I suppose using dough relaxers as I did in the shop or else using another magic combination of cake and all purpose flour which I am going to try in my next attempt.

[sheetz]

Thanks for the update, Apicio! I get the feeling the crusts aren't blind baked at all, that they are baked either low and slow or at high temp then reduced to low.

Edited May 31, 2006 by sheetz (log)

[Apicio]

Sheetz,

We'll get to the filling once we perfect the crust. I figure I will have to try a few more versions of the crust so I did not want to waste the filling. The result from Ling's recipe were inedible and went to the bin as soon as they cooled down. The most recent ones were delicious without any filling.

[sheetz]

Sheetz,

We'll get to the filling once we perfect the crust. 

Gotcha!

[Apicio]

Here is my final version of the dan tart crust. By mixing cake and all purpose flour in this version, I obtained a soft and malleable dough that can be rolled thin without breaking and also does not need as long rest periods. I increased the lard of the water dough to make it more tender and closer to the texture of the commercial dan tarts. The baking shells did not bubble and puffed out of shape in the oven and are very short although tasty to eat as is. I’m going to try filling them with my own custard mixture and baking them next time.

150 grams cake flour

150 grams all purpose flour

150 grams lard

150 grams water

25 grams granulated sugar

1/2 teaspoon salt

275 grams lard

225 grams cake flour

Dump all the ingredients of the first group in a food processor and run until it forms into a clean ball. Wrap in plastic and let rest in the fridge for at least an hour.

Mix together the second group of ingredients until smooth but still firm.

Roll the water dough in a flat square around 18” x 18”. Spread the lard and flour mixture in the centre of this in a rough square with its corners close to the sides of water dough. Fold the flaps like a squre envelope. Flatten and roll the resulting package into a rough rectangle 12” on the short side. Fold this into three along the long side and wrap in plastic sheet and let rest in the fridge for two to three hours.

Roll again into a rectangle that is roughly 12” on the short side and fold into three along the long side. Do this one more time and wrap in plastic sheet and let rest. Stop and let the dough rest in the fridge any time you feel that it is resisting handling.

Split this package into two to make handling easier. Each one is rolled into a rectangle that is 18” on the long side. Rolled tightly like a jelly roll along the short side. Roll into an even rope that is 24” long. Divide into 16 equal pieces. Wrap this pieces in plastic sheet and let rest before rolling into final rounds approximately the diameter of your scalloped cutter (mine is 4” to fit my mini brioche pans).

[SuzySushi]

All I can say is, boy are you dedicated! I would've given up long ago. (In fact, I did give up long ago.)

Yay, Apicio!!!

[Dejah]

All I can say is, boy are you dedicated! I would've given up long ago. (In fact, I did give up long ago.)

Yay, Apicio!!!

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So glad you persisted, Apicio. This may kickstart the dan tart cook-off to another round!

[hzrt8w]

So glad you persisted, Apicio. This may kickstart the dan tart cook-off to another round!

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Ha! I can't bake a thing to save my life. Maybe I will try this too! Too tempting

[LittleIsland]

Reviving this to ask: Hey Apicio, any updates on your dan-tart efforts, and any pictures to share? Would love to SEE what you've come up with, and also the progress on the custard filling.

I want to try my hand at these soon, but (so sue me, I'm selfish) only once everyone has pretty much agreed on the "perfect" recipes! Weeelllll... and also because I haven't had too much experience with pies and tarts.

BTW I found this thread (and site) after returning from a trip to Hong Kong last month and, in a haze of dan-tart withdrawal, had almost given up on a frenetic online search of viable recipes for the real thing - when it comes to proper dan-tart recipes, it's a desert out there.

[Ling]

Well, it wasn't my recipe that I posted. As I said, it was from my friend's gf's dad. I didn't even try it as the proportions looked off, but thought I'd post it to see if other bakers felt the same way.

Here's another recipe for sou pei that I found online.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Ling (log)

[Apicio]

I have noticed that attempts by a lot of participants in this board run into problems for the simple reason that passionate amateurs that they may be are attempting recipes that they simply are not technically ready for, their skill level not having reached the level required by the recipes. It results in far-fetched substitutions, poor adjustments in timing and temperature, total bewilderment in mending minor failures all of which no amount of expert advice but only more practice and experiece can remedy.

Making pâte feuilletée when you have not even baked muffins is equivalent to sitting in front of the piano to play the Minute Waltz with no prior training.

[Ling]

I am not sure who you're referring to, Apico, but the recipe was from a baker who works at a Chinese bakery. Perhaps my friend copied down the measurements incorrectly--I think this is very likely. Furthermore, I find your uppity attitude very offputting and fail to see how it relates to the discussion of making sou pei. There are, believe it or not, "passionate amateur" bakers who can produce reasonable laminated doughs.

However, the fact remains that I don't appreciate being associated--or rather, repeatedly attributed--to a recipe that does not work, especially if you throw in the words "red herring" in your assessment of said recipe.

If you've read the Pastry forum on this website, I do often try to help other bakers who have trouble with their recipes, and also have helped many pastry students and home bakers who PM me for assistance. So to suggest that I'm intentionally posting a recipe with a red herring is rather offensive to me. I was excited to share the recipe though I wasn't sure if the proportions were correct because that was based on my own judgment and wanted to see if other (perhaps more knowledgable) bakers felt the same way.

Edited September 9, 2006 by Ling (log)

[Ben Hong]

Ling your reputation as an accomplished cook and as an upstanding member of the eG is beyond reproach. If there were errors in the recipe, I am positive that they were errrors of transcription, not intention.

[hhlodesign]

I have noticed that attempts  by a lot of participants in this board run into problems for the simple reason that passionate amateurs that they may be are attempting recipes that they simply are not technically ready for, their skill level  not having reached the level required by the recipes.  It results in far-fetched substitutions, poor adjustments in timing and temperature, total bewilderment in mending minor failures all of which no amount of expert advice but only more practice and experiece can remedy.

Making pâte feuilletée when you have not even baked muffins is equivalent to sitting in front of the piano to play the Minute Waltz with no prior training.

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It is ignorant to assume that because one took piano lessons, that one can play Mozart better than one who taught him/herself how to play on his/her own.