Vancouver Restaurant Reviewers

[nwyles]

Abuse him !

If he has not researched your alter ego, take him to the cleaners !

Although my occasions for dining out have been very sparse lately, I think that I might "lunch" one day real soon at Diva. I feel a little bad for the "fallen from grace" comment and should get in there. That certainly was not my intention. Perhaps I will run into Ling and her date ! Ling, if you see me there, be sure you send over a bottle of champagne.

[Ling]

Abuse him !

If he has not researched your alter ego, take him to the cleaners !

Although my occasions for dining out have been very sparse lately, I think that I might "lunch" one day real soon at Diva. I feel a little bad for the "fallen from grace" comment and should get in there. That certainly was not my intention. Perhaps I will run into Ling and her date ! Ling, if you see me there, be sure you send over a bottle of champagne.

←

He knows my alter ego. Hmm...maybe he lurks on Egullet too. I guess perhaps I can give him a chance...errr I'll have to think about it. He's a nice guy, though.

I would be honoured if you accept the bottle of champagne (on his tab, of course.)

I just skimmed through this thread again and noticed I didn't comment on my favourite reviewers. I enjoy Angela Murrills, Jaime Maw, Andrew Morrison, Mia Stainsby and Tim Pawsey.

I really respect many of our own Egullet "reviewers" too, like canucklehead (particularly for Chinese food--good writing and it comes with pictures!) Mooshmouse, Daddy-A (particularly when it pertains to bbq'ed meat), Vancouver, Keith Talent, Chocoholic, BCinBC, and Zucchini Mama. (Those are just some examples off the top of my head...I do read all the reviews on this board.) There are many people here who are more knowledgable in certain cuisines than I'll ever be, so those are the reviews that I pay particular attention. The comments from industry people also catch my eye, though I do feel that sometimes they are naturally more reserved in their critique as they know first-hand how difficult it can be to have an off-night be called on it over the internet.

Edited October 18, 2005 by Ling (log)

[McTee]

Personally, I don't read too many restaurant reviews and I generally don't put much value in them to begin with.

Not to offend any of the writers/eGulleters, but frankly, as a manager in the industry, I have seen so many nights where one table had the worst experience of their dining life and the next table had the best that I am simply unable to take one person's opinion on one two-hour experience to sincerely believe that I will have the same experience should I choose to go to the same restaurant.

We all have opinions as to which restaurants are good and bad, and I don't really believe that one person's is any more valuable than another's. I used to work with someone that trashed every detail of every dining experience that they "endured" to the point that I wondered if this person was capable of simply relaxing and turning their inner reviewer off and....GASP!.....enjoying a night out!

At times we can all be the person who frustrates their dining companion by paying less attention to the conversation, and instead choosing to concentrate on what the server is doing with every moment of their time.

I now make a commitment to myself and to my future dining companions to enjoy my time out, and not dwell so much on a server's wine opening technique, or on other details that most would unlikely catch.

However, I reserve the right to change my mind.

To finish, I also find that no restaurant either lives up to the hype, nor performs as badly as reviewers say they do.

Hey, I've been to West, was unimpressed, and it's been about 3 years and I haven't thought of going back until now.

To each their own.

[pretzels]

I'm not sure if this should be in the Diva thread, but I noticed today on Canada.com that they were doing a feature of the manager of Diva. The overall tone was what it is like to be the manager of a "top Vancouver restaurant".

It smacked of PR to offset the recent bad press in the Globe. It made me wonder just how much a bad review can affect a restaurant, and marvel at how quickly the PR machine can be ignited.

[transfattyacid]

To be honest none of them. Sorry Mr Maw no offence.

I prefer to chat with my boss and the lads at work or other cooks i know, about what a place is like. I dont take any ones word about a place unless they have cooked for ( or along side ) me. Cooks tend to be more realistic about the outside forces that are at play in terms of getting your food on your table.

I find hype has the opposite effect on me, in what ever it may be, movies, music and especially restaurants. It just turns me off going completely. I hate being sold an idea or a ' lifestyle ' choice. I have a strong need to find out for my self, be it right or wrong, good or bad. So make note of this if your a Tele-marketer.

When i lived back home i used to read Fay in the Standard, tho` i didn`t take all what she writes as gospel. Will self`s old column for amusement. And the Good Food Guide to back up what my mates have already told me.

[Daddy-A]

Not to offend any of the writers/eGulleters, but frankly, as a manager in the industry, I have seen so many nights where one table had the worst experience of their dining life and the next table had the best that I am simply unable to take one person's opinion on one two-hour experience to sincerely believe that I will have the same experience should I choose to go to the same restaurant.

Never were truer words spoken.

A.

[Mooshmouse]

On a side note, many of us rank amateurs also post about repeat visits to various places, and comment on the rise or decline of same. Much as I love food, I don't think I have a particularly discerning palate, but many of the "amateurs" around eGullet are actually rather familiar with food and wine and what makes a restaurant worth eating in...

←

Chris, there is a vast difference between the way that Alexandra Gill excoriated Diva in her 'professional' capacity and the way that we "amateurs" as you deem us relate our dining experiences at a restaurant.

First and foremost, we are paid neither to dine around town nor to share our experiences in print. We eat out because we love food and, in most instances, we love to gain new inspiration for our own home cooking efforts from the dishes that come out of restaurant kitchens. When we write, our aim is not to sell publications but, rather, to share our meals in a virtual way with others who may not have had the opportunity to dine at a particular establishment. For the most part, we are not vitriolic; on the contrary, I find us to be reasonable, intelligent adults who are rather measured and honest with our remarks. If a restaurant catches our fancy, then we'll return. If our dining experience was riddled with missteps, we'll either be truthful about it or opt to 'plead the fifth' on the eGullet boards so to speak, and we may give the restaurant a second or even third chance. But, come on now. Many of us are not of unlimited budget or resource and we have to maximize the benefit of our dining dollars when we spend them.

In short, we food enthusiasts congregate here because we relish the opportunity to share our collective dining experiences. And, let's face it. You post here. You take the time to read what the amateurs are saying... unless you skim through a topic until either Andrew or Jamie's or Neil's or Leonard's name catches your eye. The professionals write the reviews, but the amateurs' money pays the bills.

←

Furthermore, does having a bad experience at any particular restaurant... chalk it up to an off-night, "goat rodeo", whatever... invalidate our right to discuss it with a measure of diplomacy on the boards? Or do we have to remain true to the unspoken rules of the eGullet Love-in?

Methinks not.

Edited October 18, 2005 by Mooshmouse (log)

[Daddy-A]

[host]

Back on track folks ... we're not here to discuss eGullet reviewers. Rather, those who review professionally.

Thanks

A.

[/host]

[bigdaddy]

[nwyles]

A nod of thanks to whomever thinks that my words actually mean something but I think that the only "pros" on the board, as far as restaurant reviewers are Jamie, Andrew and Jane Mundy. ( And that upstart Andrew, only just recently became a pro !! ) That being said, their participation on this board is the same as everyone else's : A person who loves food and wine and all of the things that go with it and enjoys sharing that experience.

Sharing experiences is what this board is all about. To those who think that their contributions are restaurant "reviews", your heads are getting a bit big.

You are sharing your impressions, and that does not qualify as a "review" in the sense that we see from the beforementioned reviewers in their real world lives.

Even with the real world reviews, we know that there is two sides to the situation, and we only ever get to hear about the one side. If you read what FannyBay had to say in the Diva fiasco, you can see that not everything is as it appears.

[Ling]

^I did use quotations to show that I was using the term "reviews" and "reviewers" loosely when referring to the comments about restaurants written on this board.

[nwyles]

^I did use quotations to show that I was using the term "reviews" and "reviewers" loosely when referring to the comments about restaurants written on this board.

←

I realize that Lorna.

[Ling]

^OK. Just wanted to clarify.

[Brenda]

I certainly enjoy Jamie Maw, and I do like Alexandra Gill. Because I am on the island, I don't get a chance to read the others so much.

I no longer bother to read Joanne Kates in the Globe. Jamie said it best: "professional victim." Remember when they used to send her "out to the provinces"? I think she hit Vancouver and Calgary before they killed the idea. What a disaster.

A.A. Gill is a hoot, although the reviews are all about him really. I also used to read Deborah Ross in "The Spectator" for a quirky psuedo working-class take on London restaurants. I don't think she writes there anymore. Years ago, I liked David Rosengarten when he did reviews for Gourmet.

So who am I missing in Vancouver? What mags should I pick up when I'm there to read good reviews?

[D90]

I used to enjoy reading the reviews in the Province, only to be disappointed more then once. I might be completely wrong but for the last little while all restaurants reviewed are being highly recommended, to me it seems more like a tool to sell advertising rather then a review. No offence to the reviewer.

A prefect example would be his most recent review of Watermark on Kits Beach, which can be found here:

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/theprovinc...7c-17859639669f

He gives them a B+ for food, but what baffles me is and I quote:

”I chewed my way from head to tail and relished the counterpoints of flavours, although they did have a particular fishy aroma that led me to believe these critters had been in the fish mortuary a bit past their "best before" date.”

”Ironically, the item that really wowed us was Baby Eli's chicken nuggets.” These were nugget they picked up from the concession downstairs

Now does that sound like a B+ restaurant to you?!?!?! Pour quality fish and the best parts of the meal were the chicken nuggets that were not even from the restaurant. Why would I pay $50-100 for dinner when for that price I could buy 300 plus Hampton House White Meat Chicken Nuggets from Costco and cook them anyways I like at home and I bet you they would be just as good if not better. He gave them a B+.

That’s is why I like sites like this you get an array of reviews, from people with all different taste preferences.

[gingerfreak]

Hey folks - I'm new here. Finally joined!

I have to agree with most people here that I take all reviewers with the proverbial grain of salt. I love reading reviews, especially when they're well-written, but the first and last time I took a reviewer at his word I ended up at a highly recommended "fine dining" establishment north of Hamilton, Ont., in what turned out to be an unremarkable family style place. Needless to say, I was overdressed

So I read Vancouver reviews and enjoy them for what they are, but what I really find useful is the reaction (I have to admit, after an Alexandra Gill review, I immediately head over to eGullet to see what people are saying..). But I need to try it for myself. If I'm trying to find a place to go, I check all kinds of sources, especially the non-pros here who really love food.

And true to my contrary nature, the more buzz a place gets, the less likely I am to try it immediately. So yeah, I'll definitely try out Nu...later. I do love though that Vancouver has such an active food scene.

[Daddy-A]

Hey folks - I'm new here.  Finally joined! 

Welcome! What took you so long?

And true to my contrary nature, the more buzz a place gets, the less likely I am to try it immediately.  So yeah, I'll definitely try out Nu...later.  I do love though that Vancouver has such an active food scene.

I subscribe to the same school of thought ... I take greater satisfaction out of liking a place nobody has heard of that being on of the throngs at the latest "in" place. Having said that, I'll try anything once.

A.

[jamiemaw]

I subscribe to the same school of thought ... I take greater satisfaction out of liking a place nobody has heard of that being on of the throngs at the latest "in" place.  Having said that, I'll try anything once.

A.

←

Perhaps it's the nature of my avocation, Arne, but I have no trouble at all with being on top of the thongs.

[Andrew Morrison]

Agreed, Jamie, though perhaps a bit of a struggle for me due to my diminutive stature. I'm with Arne on this one. I'll try anything once.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Andrew Morrison (log)

[Memo]

Perhaps it's the nature of my avocation, Arne, but I have no trouble at all with being on top of the thongs.

←

Sorry, Jamie - but I need you to clarify. Thongs or flipflops?

Memo

[jamiemaw]

Agreed, Jamie, though perhaps a bit of a struggle for me due to my diminutive stature. I'm with Arne on this one. I'll try anything once.

←

Chin-ups?

Edited October 26, 2005 by jamiemaw (log)

[Andrew Morrison]

I'm afraid it's too late for that, Jamie. It's a move I patented long ago (no innuendo - I speak plainly).

But getting back OT.

My favourite restaurant reviewers in Vancouver fluctuate on a weekly basis depending on how much I agree or disagree with them.

I like Ian King at Terminal City the most, simply because I've never met him.

Edited October 27, 2005 by Andrew Morrison (log)

[gingerfreak]

Hey folks - I'm new here.  Finally joined! 

Welcome! What took you so long?

And true to my contrary nature, the more buzz a place gets, the less likely I am to try it immediately.  So yeah, I'll definitely try out Nu...later.  I do love though that Vancouver has such an active food scene.

I subscribe to the same school of thought ... I take greater satisfaction out of liking a place nobody has heard of that being on of the throngs at the latest "in" place. Having said that, I'll try anything once.

A.

←

In addition to being contrary, I'm also a procrastinator

And I agree, as much as I want to try all the new places being raved about, I have a long list of places to go which are NOT currently being bombarded. Guess I just operate a bit behind the curve

[Ling]

I came across an old issue of NUVO today (Summer 2005) and I read an article by Jurgen Goethe. He mentions Egullet (spelled "e-Gullett" in the article) saying that on his "cursory visit" to the website, it appeared that it was full of "people who took the fun out of food" and generally didn't have much going on in their lives. (I am paraphrasing here, as I don't have the article in front of me.) The context was that the chef featured in the article said that someone on Egullet had complained about alphabet pasta in the miso soup he was featuring...

Thoughts?

I dunno...maybe I have no life, but I think Egullet is pretty fun. Learning can be fun, and I've certainly learned a lot on this board.

[Andrew Morrison]

I'm sure Mr. Goethe would agree cursory glances seldom result in worthwhile judgements.

But then again, my life has been greatly seasoned with the mighty flavours of the Gullet.

And, of course, I'm a freakishly sensitive and very wicked nerd.

Edited November 22, 2005 by Andrew Morrison (log)