Is Tipping Big the New Black?

[jackal10]

I cant remember. I suspect 15% service charge printed on the menu and closed credit card slips, The tips were handled by the Maitre D,and divided equally between all staff working, front and back.

Oh, and we paid the staff properly with holidays etc,

[Nathan]

I assume you have been told that servers are charged money to serve you? (the IRS assumes that they are tipped and will dock them for presumed underreporting)...its kind of like not tipping strippers....they actually pay to perform for you.

the next time someone complains about Florida and NY restaurants adding gratuity on to the bill for European customers (which some do)...I'll merely point them to this thread.

one defense of the tipping system is simply in comparing the service between midrange restaurants in the U.S. and Europe. on average, it's significantly better in the U.S. than in Western Europe...(Eastern Europe is, of course, another ball game).

obviously, this doesn't apply to restaurants with Michelin star type aspirations.

Edited February 13, 2008 by Nathan (log)

[weinoo]

This is why, when I was driving a cab, I hated picking up people who were, shall we say, not from this country.

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

IIRC, in CA, the minimum wage for waitstaff in restaurants is the same as the minimum wage anywhere else in the state, and the employer can not count tips as part of what it's supposed to be paying an employee.

Here's a blurb from the CA state department of industrial relations website (www.dir.ca.gov)

"5.

Q.

I work in a restaurant as a waitperson. Can my employer use my tips as a credit toward its obligation to pay me the minimum wage?

A.

No. An employer may not use an employee's tips as a credit toward its obligation to pay the minimum wage."

Now, seeing as I rarely travel outside of CA, I don't have the guilt thing driving me to tip a certain amount regardless of service.

Typically I tip whatever double the sales tax is... so 16.5%-17.5%, above that for extraordinary service or if my kids make a huge mess. If the service is terrible, I leave a lot less (but rarely nothing).

[Miami Danny]

This is why, when I was driving a cab, I hated picking up people who were, shall we say, not from this country.

←

While I think cheapness extends to all people, from all walks of life, rich and poor, there's nothing quite as heartbreaking as watching a server who has just worked their butt off for more than two hours for a table of 12 Dutch diners, only to get stiffed on a $300 tab (I felt, as the owner, I shouldn't assume they would stiff, or leave a crummy tip, and just add a service charge to their bill. Lesson learned.) The fact is that Europeans know the system. Sometimes, I guess, their memory just fails them, or in the case of some cheap travelers, they save money where they can, often taking it out on the exact people who can least afford it (especially cab drivers, weinoo, I feel you), and then rationalizing it later as a 'protest' of the 'system'. Yes, there are countries where tips are frowned upon, but there is a clear system in the United States. It says so right in the guidebooks.

Edited February 15, 2008 by Miami Danny (log)

[cathrynapple]

The restaurants in which I've worked generally had a 15 or 20 percent gratuity added on parties of eight or more for that reason.

I can understand frustration at not getting to choose how much you tip, though. I have mixed feelings about added tips.

The only "issue" we seemed to have, though, was that of peoepo wanted to add more tip to the included one.

[Miami Danny]

The restaurants in which I've worked generally had a 15 or 20 percent gratuity added on parties of eight or more for that reason.

I can understand frustration at not getting to choose how much you tip, though. I have mixed feelings about added tips.

The only "issue" we seemed to have, though, was that of peoepo wanted to add more tip to the included one.

←

I understand. But the point of adding in a predetermined service charge to the check is to avoid all of the above problems, and to make sure there are no 'misunderstandings' from tourists, and other cheap patrons. Of course, this policy should be written somewhere on the menu, and the opportunity to add more (or even subtract, on occasion), should be made available.

Of course, you're always going to have that one wanker...

Edited February 15, 2008 by Miami Danny (log)

[Daniel]

Tipping is evil and morally wrong. Waitstaff should be paid a decent wage, and menu prices should be honest and include the service element. Just because tipping is widespread in some cultures doesn't make it right.  The system is broken, and by tipping you continue to support a bad system.

Why do people tip big?

Showing their wealth in front of their date/friends? Ugly

Buying better service. Unlikely, since the tip is after the meal

Gratitude? The wait person is just doing their job

Trying to build a personal relationship with the waitperson? Personal relationships  built on money exchange are usually called prostitution.

Buy respect from the waitperson? Money doesn't buy respect

Boost their fragile ego?

Charity for the poor waitron? Not nice either, and there are better (and tax-deductible) charity causes. Maybe we should start a "Waitstaff benefit" charity, that would allow tax free tipping, and support the poor waitstaff...

←

The bottom line is, as someone who is visiting a culture, you should adhere out of respect.. Its not up to you to judge or justify it.. You are a guest in a foreign land and you should respect there customs..

[JohnnyH]

If I tip the server, the what about the busboy, the cleaners, the water boy, the sommelier...

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Just jumping in here for a moment to note that at least some of the people Jackal facetiously listed are, in fact, part of the service staff's tip pool.

Carry on.

Edited February 15, 2008 by JohnnyH (log)

[cathrynapple]

In Indiana, at least, buspersons earn a normal minimum wage, as do water boys and other employees. Servers get the two something an hour and tips. In most restaurants the buspersons and sometimes dishwashers will get, say, ten percent of the servers' tips. Believe me, all that is accounted for. The system works.

MiamiDanny, I agree with you. This policy was always printed on the menu and if someone called for reservations we reminded them over the phone. I do see the needed for pre-included tips. And no one complained because everyone seemed to understand this need.

[Felice]

The problem is  the majority of management continues to exploit the staff with such an unfair system.  It means the majority of staff costs are variable costs, so that if the restaurant, through no fault of the staff has a poor night or two, then the staff take the hit. Yes running a restaurant is tough, but not that long ago the standard tip was 10%. Where will it stop?

If I tip the server, the what about the busboy, the cleaners, the water boy, the sommelier,  bribe the greeter for a decent table, to say nothing of the line chefs, the garde manger, the plongeurs who also work hard and do tough jobs for poor money? Typical wage costs are about 33% - should that all come from tips?

Even more ridiculous I am expected to tip if the service was sub-standard or the food poor.   It means the prices are 20% over those advertised. Why does the restaurant lie about the price? Who do they think they are kidding?

I am amazed the corrupt and corrupting tipping system continues, where everyone, not least the staff, loses.

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I am sorry for beating a dead horse, but I meant to respond to this during the week and didnt have time.

First of all, as people have mentioned, the buss staff (water boy I think) bar tenders and expediter, and in some cases the host, are all tipped by the waiter. Where I have worked, we gave 10% of our tips to the bar, 10 % to the busser, 5% to the expediter and a few dollars to the host. All of these employees are still paid a higher wage, but their income is supplemented by tips. The kitchen staff, referred to as back of the house, are paid a salary or a higher hourly wage.

I feel that I am in a unique position because I have worked in both systems, for more than 10 years as a server and manager in the US and then in France where servers are paid a salary like any other job. Service is included in the bill but this is not typically given directly to staff but is used to pay all staff a living wage. There are things that I like about both systems, but if I had the choice, I would pick the US system with tips as the main income without hesitation for many reasons.

Jackl worries that the waiters are exploited by this system, but I certainly never felt exploited and had better working condition's in the US. Why? Quite simply, I was paid more, much more. In France, my pay was less than a 1/3 of what I made in the US. You could argue that I had all these great benefits, but I had health insurance at every restaurant in the US (although it was voluntary and I paid about 200$ a month) so the bonus of guaranteed benefits was not an issue. Sure, I had 5 weeks paid vacation, but I couldn’t really afford to go anywhere, so I took the pay instead.

I also worked a lot harder in France. Since the restaurant pays much more for wages, they could only afford a skeleton crew. I had ten tables with no busser or expediter. In the US, I normally had 4-5 tables with support staff to help me. In France, however, since we didn’t depend on tips, waiters aren't as concerned if the service falls off, so in that sense, it was less stressful. The waiter can just shrug when things are to busy to handle. In France, the customer is not always right and waiters are allowed to tell them so, something I would never dare in the US. You don't like the side dish that comes with the roast chicken? Don't order it. In the US, you fight with the kitchen for special orders, so that your customer gets what he wants.

And lastly, there is just something motivating about working for tips, the harder you work, the busier it is, the better service you give, the more money you make. But I think this is a very American idea, that you'd rather risk not making money one night, in order to potentially make a lot the next.

These are all cultural attitudes, instilled at a very young age. Cultural differences are very hard to understand which is why it isn't fair to pass judgements from afar.

If you have terrible, rude service, then don't tip and don't feel badly, but I think if you have acceptable or good service and choose not to tip on a principle that you are applying to another culture based on your own cultural references, that seems very unfair. You are much better off not travelling at all if you are not willing to except cultural differences. If you can't except the "when in Rome" philosophy, then perhaps staying home, where everyone thinks the same, is a safer bet.

I can understand why a European would find the US service system not to their liking. When I go home, I am put off by the servers who want to be my pal, I'd rather them just bring my food, but I certainly wouldn't not pay someone because they wrote a smiley face on my check. Overfriendliness is not bad service and not a reason to not pay someone. (Although it is a waiters job to read their tables and to know who wants to be left alone)

I was in Africa last year and the guidebooks said that my safari guide probably wasn't paid and was dependent entirely on my tips. Imagine, if I had decided that this wasn’t fair, that he was being exploited and therefore I wouldn’t pay him a dime in order to correct the system. Most would agree that this would be unconscionable.

It doesn't seem like we will change anyone's mind however, and it probably doesn't matter. I made very good money as a waitress in the US and probably got stiffed once a year. Those who tipped well made up for those who tipped poorly.

[Miami Danny]

A funny thing happened to me in Miami Friday night apropos this topic. I was attending the Spiegel World show to celebrate my wife's birthday, and we arrived about 45 minutes before the show. A prix-fixe restaurant, and a bar selling drinks were set up outside the tent (run by 'Oasis at The Raleigh'), so I ordered a Heineken and a Johnny Walker Black. The bill was $24 and change, so I gave the bartender $40, and he returned $15 (no point in arguing about $.50 on a $24 tab). It seemed awfully high, but when I went back for another beer, it was $9, so I thought, $9 for the beer, $15 for the Scotch, welcome to Miami. Later I got a glass of red wine, and another Black Label. The bill was $31 and change. So at this point, I was on my last bit of coin, and I thought, what kind of wine are they serving at $15+. Well, when I focussed my eyes, I saw some marginal bottle of generic Pinot Noir, whose name escapes me now.

It turns out that they were adding in a 15% Gratuity, and the bartenders were not mentioning it, nor was there any way to know (the light was so dim you could barely see your own hand), unless you had guessed it or could read in the dark. So all those three's and four's I was laying on the bar were really double tips. It was a great show, but I have to say: Every time I go to South Beach, I leave feeling disappointed, ripped-off, or both. To top it off, I got a $23 parking ticket for not parking 'head-in'. As this was the last parking space on a holiday/boat show weekend, I was happy to get it, but I had to squeeze in, and back it in. If you go to South Beach, be very careful how you spend your money-the sharks are everywhere

[Cats]

IIRC, in CA, the minimum wage for waitstaff in restaurants is the same as the minimum wage anywhere else in the state, and the employer can not count tips as part of what it's supposed to be paying an employee.

that's how oregon is too: http://www.oregon.gov/BOLI/TA/T_FAQ_Min-wage2008.shtml

Q. Can I count an employee´s tips against the minimum wage?

A. No. Oregon law does not allow for tip credits. ORS 653.035(3).

our minimum wage just went up to 7.95/hour the beginning of this year.

i've only ever lived in calif and oregon (and not travelled), and i just dont get how it can be legal for employers to steal from their employees like that in other states.

it does not seem like prices in oregon are higher than the sf bay area was -- lower, if anything, even though the minimum wage here is higher.

do the businesses in other states get to just pocket the money they take from their employees? is that why they dont want to pay a fair wage?

i grew up with tips being rewards for good service. i usually do about 15 for good service, more for very small checks or specially good service, less if the service isn't good. i think in 30 years there's only been 2 times i didn't leave any tip, but there's been a handful where the server just got whatever loose change i had and a handful that were double the check.