Chicago Pizza

[nr706]

The other interesting thing about it is that in the garage across the street is where the "St. Valentine's Day Massacre" took place - what a claim to fame!!  <G>

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Nope, that garage was torn down many years ago. It's now a lawn next to a retirement home ... but it is across the street.

[Fat Guy]

I was just reading this topic the other day in preparation for a trip to Chicago, but I had concluded that there wasn't time in my schedule for a pizza stop. I noticed today, however, when walking over from my hotel to dinner number one, that there was a Giordano's right behind the hotel. So on my way back from dinner number one I couldn't resist stopping in and ordering a pie.

When they say it takes half an hour to prepare your pizza, they mean it. I suppose if you have drinks and salads or appetizers, and you're with people, the half hour goes by easily enough. When you're alone, and you're just having pizza and water, and you didn't bring a book, you have to do a lot of texting on your cell phone to pass the time.

Anyway, I thought the pizza -- a stuffed pie with sausage -- was delicious. I can't believe I'm using these adjectives in connection with Chicago-style pizza, but I thought it was restrained, subtle even. Yes, it's a heavy item. But the proportions made sense and the pie was tremendously enjoyable. I really liked the crust, which had no greasiness to it. The sauce on top of the pie was applied conservatively, so it didn't overwhelm the pie (from the photos I thought it would be much saucier).

One thing I think is interesting about Chicago pizza is that it seems to be highly reproducible in the small, local chain format. That's not the case with, for example, New York pizza, which doesn't seem to reproduce well beyond a single establishment.

[Darren72]

It also reproduces well in a home kitchen.

[ulterior epicure]

I was just reading this topic the other day in preparation for a trip to Chicago, but I had concluded that there wasn't time in my schedule for a pizza stop. I noticed today, however, when walking over from my hotel to dinner number one, that there was a Giordano's right behind the hotel. So on my way back from dinner number one I couldn't resist stopping in and ordering a pie.

When they say it takes half an hour to prepare your pizza, they mean it. I suppose if you have drinks and salads or appetizers, and you're with people, the half hour goes by easily enough. When you're alone, and you're just having pizza and water, and you didn't bring a book, you have to do a lot of texting on your cell phone to pass the time.

Anyway, I thought the pizza -- a stuffed pie with sausage -- was delicious. I can't believe I'm using these adjectives in connection with Chicago-style pizza, but I thought it was restrained, subtle even. Yes, it's a heavy item. But the proportions made sense and the pie was tremendously enjoyable. I really liked the crust, which had no greasiness to it. The sauce on top of the pie was applied conservatively, so it didn't overwhelm the pie (from the photos I thought it would be much saucier).

One thing I think is interesting about Chicago pizza is that it seems to be highly reproducible in the small, local chain format. That's not the case with, for example, New York pizza, which doesn't seem to reproduce well beyond a single establishment.

In the years that I lived and worked in Chicago, I came to like Giordano's the best of all the major stuffed-pizza pizzerias. Two reasons that I identified.

1. The crust is key: cornmeal instead of dough. With Gino's, Uno, and others who use flour dough, it often doesn't cook all the way through and there's a really heavy and rather unappealing amorphous layer where cheese meets uncooked dough; the entire middle section of the pizza becomes almost an endible mass of wet clay. The cornmeal dough is, as you noticed, is lighter and drier than the dough versions, almost crisping up in certain parts... the cooked cornmeal also imparts a toasty fragrance that I love.

2. Just the right amount of sauce. Many other stuffed pizzerias tend to overdo the sauce, which also contributes to an overall soggy and heavy feel.

Glad you enjoyed Giordano's! It's been way too long since I've had a slice of their pie.

[BryanZ]

ue, Fat Guy, we're on the same page.

When they say it takes half an hour to prepare your pizza, they mean it. I suppose if you have drinks and salads or appetizers, and you're with people, the half hour goes by easily enough. When you're alone, and you're just having pizza and water, and you didn't bring a book, you have to do a lot of texting on your cell phone to pass the time.

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This was the story of my summer. The Blackberry becomes your only friend.

[Fat Guy]

I take it the crust is a percentage cornmeal, rather than all cornmeal.

[ulterior epicure]

I take it the crust is a percentage cornmeal, rather than all cornmeal.

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Right, right. I know it also includes flour, butter (or shortening), and some yeast and oil... salt, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a little sugar too.

[Nathan]

yeah, it's not like the Two-Boots dough.

another vote for Giordanos here.

[Nathan]

I must say I did enjoy it.  It is not, however, pizza at all. 

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I had to laugh when I saw this. an Italian friend of mine upon first trying NY pizza: "This is very good. But why do you call it pizza?"

[highflyingbird]

THE BEST is Vito & Nick's on the Southside. OK, it might take a day to get there, but it is worth it. Incredibly thin with the right amount of toppings in a time capsule of a room. It is an awesome place. Great friendly service; we took pictures with the kids working there and they gave us folding chef hats. Sweet.

It was a great time right out of O'Hare. First thing we did. We only wish we could've made it a second time.

[Fat Guy]

I must say I did enjoy it.  It is not, however, pizza at all. 

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I had to laugh when I saw this. an Italian friend of mine upon first trying NY pizza: "This is very good. But why do you call it pizza?"

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We call it pizza because anybody with the ability to see and think can easily recognize it as such. I've heard the "But why do you call it . . ." line many times, applied to many foods. It's an affectation. A lot of folks, especially Europeans, like to talk up narrow, regional definitions of foods, but they're perfectly able to recognize different styles of pizza. Even within Italy, and even if you take "pizza" to mean "Neapolitan pizza," there are many styles, some of which (e.g., sfincione) are less Neapolitan-pizza-like than New York or Chicago pizza (then again, in Italy they argue about whether sfincione is pizza too).

[slkinsey]

Indeed, most Siciliani would say that sfincione is not pizza.

Chicago Style Pizza I suppose falls within the definition of what we call pizza in the United States. But, really, Americans will call anything that involves a bread-based base topped with some combination of something vaguely saucy, something vaguely cheesy and/or something vaguely Italian-tasting "pizza." Thus, a lamejun is an "Armenian pizza" and a tostada is a "Mexican pizza." Even focaccia, which is certainly not pizza, could fall under this definition (and is considered a kind of pizza by many Americans).

Chicago Style Pizza certainly has more in common with a casserole and many other non-pizza dishes than it does with pizza. I would argue that it is only the vaguely Italian flavors, including the copious use of tomato sauce and mozzarella cheese, that makes Chicago Style Pizza "pizza." For example, if you take a thin crust and top it with some braised lamb, thin potato slices and cheese and bake it in a hot oven, you've got a lamb and potato pizza. Make that same dish "Chicago Deep Dish Style" and you have a Shepherd's Pie.

The foregoing notwithstanding... for better or worse, we call it "pizza" in the States and, if you're me anyway, it can be delicious. But I agree that most Italians would not consider it pizza.

[ulterior epicure]

Indeed, most Siciliani would say that sfincione is not pizza.

Chicago Style Pizza I suppose falls within the definition of what we call pizza in the United States.  But, really, Americans will call anything that involves a bread-based base topped with some combination of something vaguely saucy, something vaguely cheesy and/or something vaguely Italian-tasting "pizza."...

... or, these days, bruschetta.

Thus, a lamejun is an "Armenian pizza"...

Gah... you've got me flash-backing to my last trip to turkey... spicy ground lamb...

As for the whole "it's not technically a pizza" issue - you may be right there, but, that is why it's called Chicago-styled pizza...

[Fat Guy]

Americans will call anything that involves a bread-based base topped with some combination of something vaguely saucy, something vaguely cheesy and/or something vaguely Italian-tasting "pizza." 

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Italians call lots of things "pizza" too, and some are less recognizable as pizza than a Chicago-style pizza. For example, it's proper to call calzones "pizza ripieno." There's also Roman-style pizza, called "pizza a taglio." Perhaps the majority of Sicilians wouldn't call sfincione pizza, but plenty would, as would plenty of Italians from elsewhere in Italy. And the classic Neapolitan pizza is, of course, pizza too, but if you're not actually in Naples (and even if you are), it's proper to specify that it's "pizza Napoletana" or any of a few constructions that modify the word pizza with adjectives. That helps distinguish it from "pizza fritta," (deep-fried pizza), which in turn could use a regional adjective since it's not only done in Naples -- there's also a Sicilian version. The reason they use those adjectives is that there are many styles of pizza. It seems a bit arbitrary to say that a calzone is a pizza, and pizza a taglio is pizza, and sfincione is thought of as pizza by some Italians, and deep-fried pizza is pizza, but a Chicago-style pizza isn't pizza. Quite aside from the question of who gets to define the term, it couldn't be all confusing to an Italian to look at New York and Chicago pizza and understand that these are styles of pizza.

[slkinsey]

Steven, you have some points, but some of your examples demonstrate why google searching has its limitations in a discussion like this.

Pizza al taglio, for example, simply means "pizza in slices." This is typically a long rectangular pizza that is sold in slices by the pound -- common in Rome, but by no means unknown elsewhere. Regardless, this is something that every Italian understands is very closely related to pizza Napoletana and the other typical forms of pizza one might find around Italy. (I should point out that I am not suggesting that pizza Napoletana defines "pizza.")

Pizza fritta is something that evolved from pizzeria more or less by some pizzaiolo putting another piece of dough on top of regular pizza and tossing it into a fryer. Again, not very far removed at all.

Pizza ripiena is not exactly the same thing as a calzone, although I should point out that a calzone is nothing more than a regular pizza that has been folded in half before baking (again, not very far removed at all). Pizza ripiena actually takes a number of forms. Most often, it's simple a regular pizza with more-than-usual toppings that is covered with another piece of dough and baked. Clearly related to the same concept of pizza and not very far removed at all.

I'm going to disagree with you that plenty of Italians would call sfincione "pizza." Of course there are some, but this wouldn't be any more than might call focaccia "pizza", which it clearly is not.

I'll also disagree that any of these things is less recognizably "pizza" to an Italian than Chicago Style.

In any event, your point is well made that there are other things called "pizza" by Italians. I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your point, however. Look at it this way: There are plenty of things that are called "biscuit" in this country. We have sourdough biscuits, yeast biscuits, baking powder biscuits, drop biscuits, rolled biscuits, tall/fluffy biscuits and shorter crisper biscuits. These encompass a fairly wide, but also understandably related category of "biscuit." But there are other things called "biscuit" as well. We have dog biscuits, tea biscuits, hard biscuits, beaten biscuits, and so on. "Biscuit" is even slang for a woman's breast. And in Canada "biscuit" may mean "small, flattish sweet cakes." It would not be any less appropriate to call a scone or a cupcake a "biscuit" than it would be to call a calzone a kind of "pizza." And yet, if you were to take an American from the Deep South to a restaurant in Parma that was serving "ham biscuits" that consisted of prosciutto inside a panino (prosciutto is a kind of ham, of course, and a panino could certainly be considered a type of yeast-raised "biscuit") I would expect that person to say: this is a pretty good sandwich, but I don't know why they're calling it a "biscuit."

Ultimately, however (and I guess I wasn't clear above), I don't really have a problem with calling it "Chicago Style" or "Deep Dish" pizza. Regardless of the fact that I think it's more related to other kinds of foods, I can certainly see how it is related to the American conception of pizza (e.g., the typical seasonings and ingredients, the fact that it is served in slices like a pizza, etc.). But I can equally see why an Italian would be just as mystified at calling that food "pizza" as my hypothetical American Southerner would be eating his "ham biscuit" in Parma.

Edited October 12, 2007 by slkinsey (log)

[Fat Guy]

The Gambero Rosso guide to pizza ("Pizzerie d'Italia del Gambero Rosso") includes sfincione and refers to it as a regional style of pizza. The introduction, explaining the scope of the book, states:

Oltre duecento segnalazioni, dal Piemonte alla Sicilia in un tour goloso fra i luoghi storici della pizza e le realta emergenti. Curiosando fra le produzioni tipiche regionali [dalla focaccia di Recco allo sfincione palermitano, dalla pizza al taglio romana alla piadina romagnola] e con uno sguardo anche al di fuori dei confini nazionali [Parigi, Londra e New York].

Now my Italian sucks, but even I can read that it says sfincione is Siclian pizza.

I also think you've misconstrued a few things I said, but the original post is there for people to read so I won't rehash it. In any event, how would you define pizza? It seems to me that the only definition that would say that deep-fried double-crust pizza is "not very far removed at all" from pizza, but that one should be mystified by labeling a thick-crust pie with a lot of tomato sauce and cheese as pizza -- that this could only make sense to an American -- is a closed-loop definition that runs "pizza is whatever is made in Italy and called pizza, and nothing else." Then again, even that definition doesn't really work, given that sources like Gambero Rosso are taking a much more ecumenical view of pizza:

Qualunque sia l'approccio, quello che conta e la competenza del pizzaiolo e la sua volonta di offrire un prodotto di alto profilo. Che sia, cioe, il risultato di una lavornazione completamente incentrata sulla qualita, dalla selezione attenta delle materie prime ai giusti tempi di lievitazione e di cottura. Pizza alta o bassa, condita con mozzarella di bufala o con fiordilatte, cotta nel forno a legna [la speranza e che possa resistere agli assalti di chi lo vuole mettere al bando] o in quello elettrico. Argomenti che dividono, ma che in fin dei conti hanno poca importanza. Purche - in ogni caso - siano garantiti sapore, digeribilta, leggerezza.

Well, I probably wouldn't say Chicago-style pizza is light (I'm not calling it deep dish, because it's not always baked in a pan). But I still maintain that it's an affectation to say "why do you call this pizza" -- that those who take a harder line than Gambero Ross doth protest to much -- and that Italians are not actually mystified by Italian-American pizza variants. Some may not like them, some may want to protect the term pizza in various nationalistic ways, but their brains are advanced human reasoning organs and they can easily see why Americans call these products pizza.

[mark922]

The Gambero Rosso guide to pizza ("Pizzerie d'Italia del Gambero Rosso") includes sfincione and refers to it as a regional style of pizza. The introduction, explaining the scope of the book, states:

Oltre duecento segnalazioni, dal Piemonte alla Sicilia in un tour goloso fra i luoghi storici della pizza e le realta emergenti. Curiosando fra le produzioni tipiche regionali [dalla focaccia di Recco allo sfincione palermitano, dalla pizza al taglio romana alla piadina romagnola] e con uno sguardo anche al di fuori dei confini nazionali [Parigi, Londra e New York].

Now my Italian sucks, but even I can read that it says sfincione is Siclian pizza.

I also think you've misconstrued a few things I said, but the original post is there for people to read so I won't rehash it. In any event, how would you define pizza? It seems to me that the only definition that would say that deep-fried double-crust pizza is "not very far removed at all" from pizza, but that one should be mystified by labeling a thick-crust pie with a lot of tomato sauce and cheese as pizza -- that this could only make sense to an American -- is a closed-loop definition that runs "pizza is whatever is made in Italy and called pizza, and nothing else." Then again, even that definition doesn't really work, given that sources like Gambero Rosso are taking a much more ecumenical view of pizza:

Qualunque sia l'approccio, quello che conta e la competenza del pizzaiolo e la sua volonta di offrire un prodotto di alto profilo. Che sia, cioe, il risultato di una lavornazione completamente incentrata sulla qualita, dalla selezione attenta delle materie prime ai giusti tempi di lievitazione e di cottura. Pizza alta o bassa, condita con mozzarella di bufala o con fiordilatte, cotta nel forno a legna [la speranza e che possa resistere agli assalti di chi lo vuole mettere al bando] o in quello elettrico. Argomenti che dividono, ma che in fin dei conti hanno poca importanza. Purche - in ogni caso - siano garantiti sapore, digeribilta, leggerezza.

Well, I probably wouldn't say Chicago-style pizza is light (I'm not calling it deep dish, because it's not always baked in a pan). But I still maintain that it's an affectation to say "why do you call this pizza" -- that those who take a harder line than Gambero Ross doth protest to much -- and that Italians are not actually mystified by Italian-American pizza variants. Some may not like them, some may want to protect the term pizza in various nationalistic ways, but their brains are advanced human reasoning organs and they can easily see why Americans call these products pizza.

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With all due respect, you and Kinsey have managed to find a pizza debate that is even more tiresome than "sausage or pepperoni?"

In Chicago, the only real question is "deep-dish, stuffed, or thin crust?" All have their adherents and, to be universalist about it, there is no one right answer. Each one is pizza, just as surely as a sub, hoagie, hero, wedge, bomber, and po-boy are all sammiches.

For me, the sould of the pie is found at Lou Malnati's. The crust is thicker than New York style, the cheese sits atop it to keep the juice from the tomatoes (for God's sake, not sauce, just tomatoes) soaking in, and you choice of topping, sprinkled lovingly with oregano, parmesan, and maybe just a touch of sugar to soften the tang of the tomato.

Just shut up and eat the pie.

[ulterior epicure]

For me, the sould of the pie is found at Lou Malnati's.  The crust is thicker than New York style, the cheese sits atop it to keep the juice from the tomatoes (for God's sake, not sauce, just tomatoes) soaking in, and you choice of topping, sprinkled lovingly with oregano, parmesan, and maybe just a touch of sugar to soften the tang of the tomato.

True, true - the Malnati's used to attend the church that I used to attend. We would, needless to say, have their pies a LOT after church. It is a "fresher" (home-made?) approach to pizza than most of their competitors'. A good pie, surely, but not my favorite in Chicago.

[mark922]

For me, the sould of the pie is found at Lou Malnati's.  The crust is thicker than New York style, the cheese sits atop it to keep the juice from the tomatoes (for God's sake, not sauce, just tomatoes) soaking in, and you choice of topping, sprinkled lovingly with oregano, parmesan, and maybe just a touch of sugar to soften the tang of the tomato.

True, true - the Malnati's used to attend the church that I used to attend. We would, needless to say, have their pies a LOT after church. It is a "fresher" (home-made?) approach to pizza than most of their competitors'. A good pie, surely, but not my favorite in Chicago.

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I had a Malnati's half sausage/half pepperoni last night. When I go to Valhalla, I want my war canoe filled with Malnati's pies to see me on my voyage.

[nsxtasy]

When they say it takes half an hour to prepare your pizza, they mean it. I suppose if you have drinks and salads or appetizers, and you're with people, the half hour goes by easily enough. When you're alone, and you're just having pizza and water, and you didn't bring a book, you have to do a lot of texting on your cell phone to pass the time.

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I usually advise folks about the 30-45 minutes it takes to bake. To avoid having to wait at the restaurant, check out the menu on their website and phone your order in ahead of time.

Anyway, I thought the pizza -- a stuffed pie with sausage -- was delicious. I can't believe I'm using these adjectives in connection with Chicago-style pizza, but I thought it was restrained, subtle even. Yes, it's a heavy item. But the proportions made sense and the pie was tremendously enjoyable. I really liked the crust, which had no greasiness to it. The sauce on top of the pie was applied conservatively, so it didn't overwhelm the pie (from the photos I thought it would be much saucier).

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It's still my favorite Chicago deep-dish pizza. (But see below.)

One thing I think is interesting about Chicago pizza is that it seems to be highly reproducible in the small, local chain format.

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Very true. All the big local chains - Giordano's, Edwardo's, Bacino's for double-crust stuffed pizza, and Lou Malnati's, Gino's East, and Pizano's for single-crust pan pizza - seem to do a great job of maintaining the quality across all locations. The one exception is Uno's, which is now a national chain; the quality at the original Uno's and Due in River North is still excellent, but elsewhere, forget about it.

As for Lou Malnati's, I had a pizza there a few weeks ago, and it was absolutely fantastic, as good as (albeit different from) Giordano's stuffed pizza. I don't think you can go wrong at either place.

[ulterior epicure]

As for Lou Malnati's, I had a pizza there a few weeks ago, and it was absolutely fantastic, as good as (albeit different from) Giordano's stuffed pizza.  I don't think you can go wrong at either place.

I would agree with that.

Thought I'd post this for the amusement:

"Attention Turkish restaurants! Please stop calling pide Turkish pizza. It’s like calling those deep-dish Chicago-style pies pizzas."

From the October 24 review of "Seven's Turkish Grill" in the 2007 "Dining Briefs" (Marian Burros) section of the New York Times.

[devlin]

Lived in Chicago for 25 years. Ate pizza at all the major and minor pizza joints til I was blue in the face. Been to Italy a number of times, lots of pizza joints, love pizza, all kinds.

That said, the quarrel over whether particular forms of regional pizzas are authentic always strikes me as superfluous. Is it good? Do you like it? Does it really matter whether it's thin, thick, deep dish, stuffed, cracker crust. There are all styles of pizza, and I love them all, depending on the quality (although given my druthers my preference is the Italian cracker crust pizza with the barest of fresh ingredients, preferably enjoyed anywhere in Italy).

Malnati's was my first Chicago pizza, and at the time it was the best I'd had. I love Uno and Due (the chains aren't the actual downtown restaurants and don't come close), Giordano's, etc. Oven Grinders was great for the meditteranean flat bread and Greek salad, but didn't care for their pizzas. Still, the meditteranean flat bread is worth going for, and with a salad, it's a meal.

And now I'll admit that one of my favorite pizzas comes from a little hole in the wall in Ukrainian Village where I lived for ten years. Bella's, on Chicago Avenue. Not every pizza is good, though, and frankly the one pizza I loved more than nearly any other pizza in Chicago was their deep dish whole garlic pizza. Fabulous.

[MelissaH]

*bump*

Early in the new year, my husband and I will be making our version of Chicago-style pizza for a transplanted Chicagoan friend. We asked him which place is his favorite, and he said Lou Malnati's. Unfortunately, neither my husband nor I has ever had the pleasure of a Malnati's pizza, so we're aiming for an unknown. (We've always gravitated towards Edwardo's spinach pie, but in ten years of trying still haven't figured the filling out quite right. We've also eaten at Due and Giordano's.) So, Chicagoans, I'm asking for a little advice before I start to experiment this week in preparation for the big day.

We've worked out a crust recipe that we're happy with over the years. Our recipe uses both salad oil (I usually use corn oil) and olive oil, in about a 2:1 ratio. If I wanted to try a butter crust variation, would I sub butter for the salad oil, the olive oil, or both? As far as crust thickness: I understand Malnati's crust runs thinner (relatively speaking, of course not as thin as what we see here in upstate NY); that's fine because that's what we prefer as well. Does the rim of the crust also run thin?

And then there's the tomato issue. According to a previous post, we should use plain tomatoes, with a sprinkle of oregano (dried?) and parm. If this information is correct, there's no way on earth that this recipe can be correct. We usually use a can of crushed tomatoes and a can of diced tomatoes, dump both into a sieve to drip-drain well, mix the two together, and use that as our tomato component. How chunky is Malnati's tomato, and how much tomato is there? How strong is the oregano? (Come to think of it, maybe a little dried oregano would help to further absorb any liquid, and thus help avoid soggy crust.)

And then there's the construction issue. We usually duplicate what we remember eating: get the crust in the pan, then put down a layer of slices (not shreds) of mozzarella, then whatever toppings we're using, then the tomato, and finally a sprinkle of parm. This is another reason why the Food Network recipe referenced above gives me doubt: it says to "Add the tomato sauce and all of the toppings," which to me implies that the stuff goes on top of the tomato, whereas I'm used to seeing the tomato on top of the stuff. I'm presuming that crust-cheese-stuff-tomatoes would be correct for a Malnati's pie.

Any other advice for us? Next time we're in Chicago, you can guess where we'll be going for our pizza fix!

MelissaH

[nsxtasy]

We asked him which place is his favorite, and he said Lou Malnati's. Unfortunately, neither my husband nor I has ever had the pleasure of a Malnati's pizza, so we're aiming for an unknown. (We've always gravitated towards Edwardo's spinach pie, but in ten years of trying still haven't figured the filling out quite right. We've also eaten at Due and Giordano's.)

The deep-dish pizza at Lou Malnati's is very similar to the deep-dish pizza at Pizzeria Due. So if you shoot for what you ate at Due's, you'll also be shooting for Malnati's.

Incidentally, this is not a coincidence. One of the lead characters in the early decades of Pizzeria Uno and Pizzeria Due was Rudy Malnati, Sr. His son Lou worked with his dad at Uno's starting in the 1940s before starting his namesake pizzeria in 1971. Rudy's other son (Lou's brother), Rudy Malnati, Jr., also started his own pizzeria, Pizano's, in 1991. Both turned into multi-location chains in the Chicago area.

I'm not that fluent with pizza recipes; I live in Chicago, so I get it at the local Malnati's (when I want single-crust pizza in the pan) or Giordano's (when I want double-crust "stuffed" pizza). But I can tell you that all of the Chicago pizza places don't use much oregano, nowhere near what you'd find on your typical East Coast thin crust pizza. Malnati's has tomato sauce, not chunky tomatoes; the cheese comes melted together so I have no idea whether it was in the form of slices or shredded before baking. One way to avoid a soggy crust is not to slice it until you're about to serve it.

If you're interested, you can use the Tastes of Chicago website to order frozen Malnati's pizza to be packed in dry ice and shipped to you.

HTH

Edited December 24, 2009 by nsxtasy (log)

[MelissaH]

nxtasy,

Yes, TH.

My big question now is how buttery the buttercrust is. Do I replace all the oil, or just part of it, with butter? (Or, put another way, how much butter do you get for $0.75?)

MelissaH