Inexpensive French eateries

[Peter B Wolf]

Though not classically French, 360 in Red Hook, with their $20-$25 three-course prix fixe dinners, is a great value.

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Just a quick note about 360: I met Bill, the current chef, about two years ago after he finished a one year stint at Wallse, he is a great guy, very talented and has an incredible passion for what he does. I have been to 360 a few times since he took over the kitchen in December, the menu he offers for the price is exceptional. Also, the owner was sommelier in NY for many years at a high end establishment. He has an incredible list of French wine bottles in the $20 to $30 range. His wines come from small growers only and close to half of what he has is not available anywhere else in NY.

Great place, thanks for mentionning it.

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Re: " 360 " ....Brooklyn's First Ever Restaurant Week

The borough's inaugural "Dine In Brooklyn" restaurant week begins this Thursday, April 15th and runs through April 22nd. Diners will enjoy three courses for only $18.98. '360' is on the list

[chefzadi]

Actually, the reason there are so few old-school French restaurants in NY is that the style is basically passé, IMHO.  In France the trend is also away from these type places to a more modern, bistro-like approach. 

One of the holdovers from a different era, that hasn't changed at all in 40 years, from the food to the decor, is a little place called Pergola des Artistes, run by a family from Normandy.  You will get classic dishes here at very low prices.  Even the atmosphere is from the 60s!!

Pergola des Artistes

252 West 46th Street

212-302-7500

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In the France forum this was discussed a little bit more in depth. The changing economics, move away from agriculture into industry, mom and pop business shutting down in vast numbers over the past 2o years or so...

[chefzadi]

One problem New York restaurants have in creating economical menus is that New Yorkers (and Americans in general) are too finicky. A huge percentage of the people in most any New York restaurant's client base believe they're allergic to things they aren't allergic to, are on one or another fad diet at any given time and have wacky beliefs about why some foods are "icky" and others aren't. As a result, it's not really possible for restaurants these days to offer a very economical set menu where there are no choices or just two or three choices. Could you imagine? Everybody would be asking for this and that on the side, substitutions, etc., and would become indignant at the slightest sign of resistance -- by the standards of the local market it's just not possible to have very strict set menus. Whereas, in France, when people go into a restaurant like that they just eat what's on the day's menu and shut up. Duck? Eels? Whatever! They don't give a damn so long as it's good food and a good value.

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Bravo Fat Guy!

[zeitoun]

Re: " 360 "  ....Brooklyn's First Ever Restaurant Week

The borough's inaugural "Dine In Brooklyn" restaurant week begins this Thursday, April 15th and runs through April 22nd. Diners will enjoy three courses for only $18.98.      '360' is on the list

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On my list too, thanks for the info

[Felonius]

There's the rub. No meal is authentically French for me unless it includes at least a half bottle of wine and it's getting hard to find a drinkable bottle for less than $30 these days. I haven't been to l'Ecole in years, but I seem to recall it's low end of the wine list was neither inviting nor all that low and ate up a bit of the value I perceived from the food.

Amen, Bux.

Does anyone remember the name of the little bistro in Midtown over on Lex or maybe 3rd, run by the 75 year old French owner/operator? Tony Bourdain wrote about it on this site about a year ago, and I paid a visit shortly thereafter. I wouldn't say the food was anything special, but it was certainly authentic French bistro fare and cheap to boot. The place is like a time-capsule from 1950. The owner doubles as the host, maitre'd and waiter - and regulars get up to answer the phone when he's in the kitchen. They also serve themselves from the bar when necessary. Quite an interesting experience, and worth the trip for sheer entertainment value. They also had very drinkable French wine at old-school low prices.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Felonius (log)

[Felonius]

Just found the name of the place in my previous post. It's Veau D'Or.

I couldn't figure out how to link Bourdain's post from the older bistro thread, so I'll quote it below.

Last week, a food mag publisher took me to a truly time-warp lunch at LE VEAU D'OR on East 60th Street. Open since 1943, the menu appears to have changed not at all since ; a compendium of lost bistro classics, deposited on the plate sans-garnish of any kind. The room is dusty, forlorn, with a mix of East side mummies and devoted solo afficianados sitting on weathered banquettes. ( A stranger waylaid me as I stoked up on nicotine out front: "Oh!! You know about this place!! It's SO great! This is my special place! Don;t tell anyone about it!) The ancient proprietor (the sole server)--in black and white waiter garb--throws your coat over a disused table and seats you. Drinks are said to often be self-service from the bar. It's the Restaurant That Time Forgot. I had celeri remoulade, my friend the leek (poireau) vinaigrette, followed by rognons de veau dijonnaise over white rice (and navarin of lamb). As regular MENU items, they continue to serve brains in beurre noir, and tripes a la mode de Caen and other dino-classics. I had Isle Flotant (!!) for dessert.

The food was much better than I expected, dead-on authentic (indistinguishable from similar run-of-the-mill Parisian joints) and LOTS of fun. For ambiance and presentation, a true step back into a past I thought had disappeared decades ago.

[chefzadi]

Just found the name of the place in my previous post.  It's Veau D'Or.

I couldn't figure out how to link Bourdain's post from the older bistro thread, so I'll quote it below.

Last week, a food mag publisher took me to a truly time-warp lunch at LE VEAU D'OR on East 60th Street. Open since 1943, the menu appears to have changed not at all since ; a compendium of lost bistro classics, deposited on the plate sans-garnish of any kind. The room is dusty, forlorn, with a mix of East side mummies and devoted solo afficianados sitting on weathered banquettes. ( A stranger waylaid me as I stoked up on nicotine out front: "Oh!! You know about this place!! It's SO great! This is my special place! Don;t tell anyone about it!) The ancient proprietor (the sole server)--in black and white waiter garb--throws your coat over a disused table and seats you. Drinks are said to often be self-service from the bar. It's the Restaurant That Time Forgot. I had celeri remoulade, my friend the leek (poireau) vinaigrette, followed by rognons de veau dijonnaise over white rice (and navarin of lamb). As regular MENU items, they continue to serve brains in beurre noir, and tripes a la mode de Caen and other dino-classics. I had Isle Flotant (!!) for dessert.

The food was much better than I expected, dead-on authentic (indistinguishable from similar run-of-the-mill Parisian joints) and LOTS of fun. For ambiance and presentation, a true step back into a past I thought had disappeared decades ago.

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If this place is still open I'll be there in a few weeks!

[Felonius]

If this place is still open I'll be there in a few weeks!

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No idea if it's still there. If you've got time, I'd recommend going for a late lunch and striking up a conversation with the owner. I ended up sitting at a table with him and another old regular for nearly two hours after lunch, drinking a complimentary bottle of Bordeaux and enjoying his tales from sixty years in the restaurant business. He moved here during WWII and opened up shop in the same space. He'd have been evicted a long time ago, if not for the fact he owns the real estate. His kids have been trying to convince him to sell it for a huge profit and retire. He said he can't bring himself to do so, as he loves the business and enjoys playing host to regulars - some of whom who have been dining there since he opened the doors over fifty years ago. He may seem a little crotchety (in classic French waiter style of course) at first, but underneath he's a gentleman of the sort that is all but extinct these days in NYC.

Edited March 12, 2005 by Felonius (log)

[chefzadi]

I always have time for food and conversation.

My wife and I always joke that if we had our own place we would give away more food to our friends and to charity than we would sell.

We're still working on a model that fits all of our tendencies.

[mascarpone]

I looked up Veau D'Or on Yahoo. It looks as though it is still kicking. The review specified it as Alsatian and rec. sweetbreads, tripe, and kidney's, escargots in garlic butter to cassoulet, coq au vin and rack of lamb.

Le Veau D'Or

(212) 838-8133

Address:

129 E 60th St

New York, NY 10022

Cross Street:

Park & Lexington Aves.

Edited March 13, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

[DCMark]

I had a fine meal at Bandol, 181 E. 78th St. Not too expensive at all.

[mascarpone]

How much did it set you back, DCMark? How many people eating, courses, drinks?

[snausages2000]

You could make a case for Ivo & Lulu in this category.

It's not a French bistro, but it's a bistro with French Caribbean cooks.

It's BYOB, with a very limited menu.

You won't be getting traditional French dishes,

but it certainly feels like French cooking

and $30 will get you 3 courses, including tax and tip.

[DCMark]

Sorry its been 9+ months and I was there on business. Probably 3 glasses of Bandol at $10-$12 each. App at $8-$10, steak was $20, dessert $7. Calvados comped. Not bad for NYC (I am from DC). Truly French, with French chef, french manager.

How much did it set you back, DCMark? How many people eating, courses, drinks?

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[Todd36]

I looked up Veau D'Or on Yahoo. It looks as though it is still kicking. The review specified it as Alsatian and rec. sweetbreads, tripe, and kidney's, escargots in garlic butter to cassoulet, coq au vin and rack of lamb.

Le Veau D'Or

(212) 838-8133

Address:

129 E 60th St

New York, NY 10022

Cross Street:

Park & Lexington Aves.

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Had dinner there tonight. Interesting. It's an old room, but not quite as old and dusty as I would have thought. It's fairly bright and looks clean. The owner is very old, and his mobility is suffering. There is also a waiter, French, who was working at La Carvalle when it closed. Plus one bus boy/assistant. They have a coat check room, but they do use some tables for business. The phone is cordless and they have a modern adding machine, so it's not quite a total time warp. The chef has been there 13 years and I was told he is Dominican. It's a prix fix system with variable prices based on the main, you get to choose the first course and dessert (with some options costing extra).

The wine was a 2001 Brouilly that was decent, at $28, and probably retailed for perhaps $12-14. It was a Prosper-Maufoox, a more obscure producer, bottled by the maker. The wine list is odd, it just gives a type and a price "Brouilly $28", for all but the more expensive wines. I think they buy what they think is good, and exactly what you get varies. It's like a local restaurant in France.

Bread had been cut into slices and then toasted, it was good, as was the butter.

The $29 dinner. Cream of Asparagus soup, Duck with Cherry Sauce and Oeufs a la Neige (floating eggs) for dessert.

The soup was first rate, with a nice flavor. The duck was quite good, crispy skin with a not very sweet cherry sauce on the side, served over wild rice with a side of creamed spinach. The duck was pretty juicy and significantly better than average. The dessertt was good.

The $27 dinner. House pate, which was significantly better than average. Beef Bourguignonne, served with noodles and fresh carrots (which were alas cold). Noodles were properly cooked, and well sprinkled with cheese. Beef was crispy on the outside (almost black in fact), and tender on the inside. Sauce was quite good and loaded with a mismash of mushrooms. This was a special of the night. Dessert was chocolate mousse, exactly rich enough and with a good flavor.

The food is pretty good, better than average. And assuming you want a three course meal, the pricing is not much more than many local diners!!! My restaurant week dinner at 11 Madison Park was worse. I would say its somewhere between one and two stars, based on what we ate. It's a good value for the money. Once you back out the firsts and desserts, the mains are really in the $15-20 range. You have to be the patient type, the food came fairly quickly, but this is not a place with fawning service and I am sure if the owner gets mad at you, out you go. I noticed he checks every check. You have to be willing to accept things the way they do it.

With tip and two expressos (at $3 each), total was $115 with a slightly better than 15% tip. For dinner for two for pretty decent food, I would say that is good.

I intend to eat there again.

[Felonius]

Thanks for the report, Todd36! I'm going to have to head back there myself.

[mascarpone]

Thanks, Todd36, for that detailed review. If Veau D'Or was indeed superior to a meal at Eleven Madison Park during resaurant week, I will have to check it out. I had a great dinner at EMP during RW last June with Pan and another friend that was second only to Union Pacific for all time best restaurant week meals.

[Todd36]

Thanks, Todd36, for that detailed review. If Veau D'Or was indeed superior to a meal at Eleven Madison Park during resaurant week, I will have to check it out. I had a great dinner at EMP during RW last June with Pan and another friend that was second only to Union Pacific for all time best restaurant week meals.

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I've eaten at Eleven Madison Park three times in the last three months. One dinner was fine, restaurant week dinner was Ok, but not two stars, and the last dinner was pretty good. I've eaten there a few more times in the past. I think its a little inconsistant at Eleven Madison Park, and I view it as "Jean Georges" light, meaning its serving a New American/French menu that is a bit similar in concept to Jean Georges, at half the price, and its not as good as Jean Georges. The roughly $20 prix fix lunch at Nougatine (Jean Georges cheaper part) is better done than the restaurant week special at Eleven Madison Park. That being said, Veau D'Or is a very different animal than Eleven Madison Park. For one thing, its about half the price, which puts it real close to restaurant week prices and the food was better than Eleven Madison Park's restaurant week dinner. It doesn't have the same level of service or atmosphere and the cooking is not modern. But the food is good, and well worth the money, which is the topic of this thread.

[Pan]

Thanks, Todd36, for that detailed review. If Veau D'Or was indeed superior to a meal at Eleven Madison Park during resaurant week, I will have to check it out. I had a great dinner at EMP during RW last June with Pan and another friend that was second only to Union Pacific for all time best restaurant week meals.

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I thought our lunch at L'Impero was at least as good and perhaps better.

[mascarpone]

Hey Pan, I knew this was going to come up sooner or later...

Edited March 16, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

[mascarpone]

Thanks, Todd36, for that detailed review. If Veau D'Or was indeed superior to a meal at Eleven Madison Park during resaurant week, I will have to check it out. I had a great dinner at EMP during RW last June with Pan and another friend that was second only to Union Pacific for all time best restaurant week meals.

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I've eaten at Eleven Madison Park three times in the last three months. One dinner was fine, restaurant week dinner was Ok, but not two stars, and the last dinner was pretty good. I've eaten there a few more times in the past. I think its a little inconsistant at Eleven Madison Park, and I view it as "Jean Georges" light, meaning its serving a New American/French menu that is a bit similar in concept to Jean Georges, at half the price, and its not as good as Jean Georges. The roughly $20 prix fix lunch at Nougatine (Jean Georges cheaper part) is better done than the restaurant week special at Eleven Madison Park. That being said, Veau D'Or is a very different animal than Eleven Madison Park. For one thing, its about half the price, which puts it real close to restaurant week prices and the food was better than Eleven Madison Park's restaurant week dinner. It doesn't have the same level of service or atmosphere and the cooking is not modern. But the food is good, and well worth the money, which is the topic of this thread.

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Yeah, I can see your point. I have only been to EMP twice, and both meals were outstanding. Perhaps I got lucky both times.

Edited March 16, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

[WestOrangeFrank]

Hm, not in NY, but a 15 minute train away is Epernay.

http://www.epernaynj.com/emenu.html

Haven't been, but have seen lots of talk in the other regional discussion board.

[elChileno]

You know what we may be lacking in New York? Places with good down-home French (Belgian, etc.) food that are inexpensive. Know any? You know, where you can hearty comfort food like Boeuf a la Flamande, Coq au Vin, Daube a la Provencale, Bouillabaisse, plus a soup and salad without spending more than, say, $30 (pushing the concept of "inexpensive" a little). The thread on out of style foods reminded me of some of these things. How about a meal of Quiche Lorraine, Coq au Vin, plus a dessert? Less than $50 anywhere? Soupe d'Oignon, salad, and Daube. Less than $60? Is there a reason why French food has to be expensive in New York? Isn't someone missing a niche?

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OK, this is only my second post, but I've recently been to Rene Pujol on 51st street west. I think it's between 8th and 9th avenues, but not sure. It offers only prix-fixe for lunch and dinner. I'm not sure how much lunch is, but I think the dinner is $44. As I said in another post, I don't remember any limitations on ordering. Everything on the menu is included. There may be additional charges for some desserts. I just remember remarking that a rack of lamb was the same as grey sole, so I was impressed not only by the price, but by the quality of the food. There's another old-time French restaurant on the same block, but it did not look as appealing as Pujol and I don't remember the name.

I'd like to hear back on what other people that have dined at Pujol think of it.

[rozrapp]

OK, this is only my second post, but I've recently been to Rene Pujol on 51st street west.  I think it's between 8th and 9th avenues, but not sure.  It offers only prix-fixe for lunch and dinner.  I'm not sure how much lunch is, but I think the dinner is $44.  As I said in another post, I don't remember any limitations on ordering.  Everything on the menu is included.  There may be additional charges for some desserts.  I just remember remarking that a rack of lamb was the same as grey sole, so I was impressed not only by the price, but by the quality of the food.  There's another old-time French restaurant on the same block, but it did not look as appealing as Pujol and I don't remember the name.

I'd like to hear back on what other people that have dined at Pujol think of it.

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Rene Pujol has been in its 51st St. location (yes, it's betw. 8th & 9th Aves.) for about 50 years, and the second generation of Pujols is now in charge. You are correct about the quality of the food. We have dined there off and on over the years, and the food has always been excellent. The menu, which has been updated, now includes both classics and modern/creative dishes.

The prix-fixe lunch is $24 and, as you said, the dinner prix-fixe is $44. However, unlike at lunch, the dinner price is definitely not inclusive of every menu item. In fact, when we had dinner there a few months ago, I remarked to my husband that there were many appetizers and main course dishes that carried a substantial supplement. You can see the menus on Rene Pujol's new website. Note that they list a rack of lamb for two @$105.

[phaelon56]

I've had some good meals at Mon Petit Cafe - I think it's at or near Lex and 59th near Bloomingdale's. Nothing spectacular but they offer reliable and predictable bistro food with soups and salads in the $6 - $8 range and entree's (which typically include a vegetable and a starch) in the $15 - $24 range. I've never been wowed by their desserts but the rest of the food is decent and it's a cozy neighborhood type spot with a French staff.