Ducasse's Grand Livre De Cuisine

[francois]

Do you have a digital camera? Might you be able to take photographs for us?

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I don't have a camera (digital or not). The dishes that I made look nice but are not nearly as picture perfect as the ones in the book.

Last night, I made the safran rice (p. 510). Nice but no better than other risotto 'patties' I made before (for exemple from Simply Bishop's). He instructs to make them rather thin which makes them a bit difficult to handle. Color is great!

I made the fish and sauce. Result was OK but then it was stupid of me to choose the fish according to the color of the skin instead of the brightness of its eyes!. I use a yellow tail snipper (I went for the red color). The sea bass looked better, I should have used it instead. I did not stuff the fish - don't know what a fish liver looks or tastes like.

Again the ingredient list is hard to make sense of: I don't have a clue what he means by 'seasoning olive oil', I just used some good olive oil instead.

Has anyone else tried things from this book?

[nathanm]

It is clearly a great book in many ways, but the copy editor should be shot. The typos are persistent throughout - "Prime Rip" of beef in one recipe, and tons of others.

Ricotta gnocchi are translated as "Buttermilk gnocchi" and in some places buttermilk is misspelled.

In the beef section it calls for "chicken steak". What cut of beef is that? In the southern US it would be chicken fried steak, but this is clearly not that! Anybody know? Presumably the French version must have the French name.

The rich beef jus is interesting. It is somewhat counter intuitive to take a big beef brisket, throw it on the meat slicer and cut it into thin slices to roast, and turn into jus, but that is just what I did yesterday....

[francois]

The rich beef jus is interesting.  It is somewhat counter intuitive to take a big beef brisket, throw it on the meat slicer and cut it into thin slices to roast, and turn into jus, but that is just what I did yesterday....

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Was it good?

[crosparantoux]

You guys are already into the meat dishes! Did anybody do the sauce that reduces 3 bottles of Cote du Rhone?

I’ve been working through the vegetables, most recently the asparagus ones, since they’re really in season now. I’m not a pro chef either, and taught myself from cookbooks and dining out. But I was pleasantly surprised to learn Ducasse’s trick of whipping the cream before incorporating it in sauces. I used to just bring cream to the same temp as the other part of a sauce, then reduce the combination if needed. There’s a better texture on the tongue with the whipped cream version. Is this the same technique as the “broken cream” that was discussed in the ADNY-Delouvier thread?

[nathanm]

I made the rich beef jus yesterday - we ate it tonight. YES it was very good. I also made the rich chicken jus. It is very concentrated - a stiff jelly when cold - so it only takes a little bit to achieve the right effect.

To literally follow his recipe you would need to make a veal stock and and pot au feu stock and then make the beef jus, and then enrich it further with oxtail. If you have them all on hand all the time that would be great but I did not have the time to make them one after another so I did this pretty much in combination. It worked out very well.

I have also recently made the pumpkin soup with ricotta gnocchi, and a verison of the broccoli soup. And also the wild salmon with arugula, artichokes and a saurce made from the salmon head... that was great too...

[MobyP]

A friend in France can get hold of - and so uses - both tendrons of veal but also tail in his jus! I haven't seen either in the UK markets. I started adding oxtail to my veal stock - about 1.5 pounds per 10-12 pounds of veal bones, after seeing a Ducasse recipe for beef jus with aparagus which also used oxtail. Apart from adding a great amount of body, it brings a roundness of flavour without adding any 'beef' notes that has completely transformed the end result.

[francois]

I’ve been working through the vegetables, most recently the asparagus ones, since they’re really in season now.

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Talking about asparagus; p. 182 '...Cook very quickly in salt water until they are ice cold'.

[jackal10]

My copy arrived today. Its big and heavy.

I agree about the copy editing - and the translation is inconsistent "parmesan ribbons" in one place and "parmesan lace" in anothers as translation of pamensan dentille. Also some of the photos don't seem to correspond exactly to the recipe, and have more or less components than are described in the text.

The devil is in the detail. There is much that is novel and exciting here, but its in the fine detail of the dishes or garnishes, or in details of the preparation and completely missed by the index, and not pointed out by any remarks. It really needs a companion volume of commentary. Ignoring the sea of truffles, there is much wisdom and techniques that can be applied more generally, but how to find them?

Edited March 31, 2005 by jackal10 (log)

[pedro]

. . . . .

There is much that is novel and exciting here . . .

. . . . .

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Jack, are you referring to the English edition or to the book itself? I mean, there's so much novel in the English edition vs the French one or in the Grand Livre?

[jackal10]

I have the UK edition. I guess the novel and exciting stuff is common to all editions, but the poor translation and editing is the English edition.

[MobyP]

Finally - a good use for the Ducasse veal jus - in a Ducasse/degusto/Jackal influenced recipe. Sauteed new season Aparagus with a white wine mousseline sauce and veal jus.

[MobyP]

I just realised that there are no jerusalem artichokes in this book. Isn't that a bit odd, coming from a bastion of modern classical cuisine?

[John Whiting]

Here's an interesting response from a cookery book dealer:

I am  writing about two things here one is the abundance of reprints or

revised books  so far this year, as in glorious american food. and others like

smokestack  lighting. the other is this culinary encyclopedia of ducasse,

alain. i really wanted to go thru  it before i said anything but i cant i  am too

overwhelmed,  i told myself i would not buy another food  encyclopedia, but  i

didnot know i would get the opprotunity to buy this  one. so its 7 lbs and its

$250.00 thats around 35.00 a lb. first time i ever  placed a value on a food

book by the pound. what it is is a recpie book!!  mary tried to look up coq

au vin and there was no defination, so it isnt an  encylopedia at all, so what

do i do with it? its to big to lug around the  kitchen, and i cant put it on

where the cat can walk on it, i could lock it up  in  a safe and  save it for

the next generation. but i dont have  anyone to give it to.. we cant even

understand half the ingredients for the  stuffing in a chicken leg, he refers to

chicken liquid as the juice of a  chicken! who ever heard of sweetbreads in a

poultry stuffing? not me, but  then  im just a simple farm boy from oklahoma,

not even qualified to  read this book, its going to take one of you big foodies

to write about this  one, of course its well done and  it even gives the

instructions for  presentation?  what it does not give is definations, i guess if

you  have to ask you dont need this book, there is a person who is qualified

to own  this but i dont know them.. so much for me reading this book cover to

cover,  when i cant  even pronounce most of the  ingredients, which if you

made one item from  this book, you would need the whole day.

[chefzadi]

what it does not give is definations, i guess if

you  have to ask you dont need this book, there is a person who is qualified

to own  this but i dont know them.. so much for me reading this book cover to

cover,  when i cant  even pronounce most of the  ingredients, which if you

made one item from  this book, you would need the whole day.

My school library has ordered this book at my request. I will be using parts of it for "The French Connection" (The language, history, terroir and culinary terms club I lead).

True I don't need the book, I already understand the book so I will be a tutor for the book...

It seems like the book needs a supplement or an old school trained French chef instructor as a tutor. The supplement is more cost effective.

[MobyP]

White asparagus with braised morels, an idea taken from the book.

[erica graham]

Have just received the first of three of Ducasse' culinary dictionaries translated into English- a bit painful at £156, but my husband is already calling it gastroporn of the highest quality- I was wondering if anyone else had caused thier postman to have a hernia yet?? If so what do you think?

[Pweaver1984]

Erica seems like you sepnt a little over the odds on your edition?

Check this link if u dare?!

Ducasse Book

Cheers

Paul

[erica graham]

Thats the last time I use Restaurant magazine as a reference for book shopping!!

I was really enjoying the feeling of aching arms from carrying it around, thinking, well you do get a lot of book for your money!!

[Jonathan Day]

I've just been to a cooking class at the Moulin de Mougins. This one was "autour d'agneau", things to do with lamb, and the instructor made a jus d'agneau.

The technique was not unlike what Moby describes, but there were differences. He used lamb bones and lots of meat scraps, plus garlic and herbs. Once they had browned quite a bit, he added butter -- lots of butter, more butter than I could have imagined. He then browned the mixture in this butter until the meat was beautifully coloured. The aroma was heavenly.

Then, he strained the whole thing, saving the butter, which had turned a light brown (noisette) colour. The meat, bones and vegetables went back into the pan, and he added fond blanc (white stock) and fond de veau (veal stock). He simmered this for a long time, then strained it thoroughly. The colour of the jus, by this time, was rich and brown, but he reduced it heavily.

Then, at the last minute, he corrected the salt, and added back some of the butter, which he said held a lot of the flavour from the original browning. The resulting jus was rich, dark brown, and well flavoured but not heavy.

I tried this later on, and it worked well. The flavour was good before the final butter went in, but the butter rounded it out and gave it depth. And because the butter had been removed from the original browning, it was easy to control the amount that went in, so that the jus wasn't overly fatty.

A promising approach, I think.

[Jake LA]

So I've recently started working for a chef professionally that suggested I get Ducasse's book, and I believe it was this one, I already checked out 'L'Atelier' from a library but was just wondering how 'Grand Livre' compared to 'Flavors of France' with Linda Dannenberg, are they completely different books or similar in scope? 'Grand Livre' runs about 10 times the price on Amazon but that's new and 'Flavors' would be used... Any input would be appreciated.

Edited August 6, 2011 by Jake LA (log)