The best SERVICE in DC?

mhberk · February 15, 2005

Jarad...is now at Ray's the Steaks
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Is he really? How did I miss this? If he's still making his creme brulee, I'm there!

murkycoffee · February 16, 2005

I'll check out some of the places people have mentioned. Thanks!

Edited February 17, 2005 by murkycoffee (log)

KatieLoeb · February 17, 2005

The La Colombe coffeehouses/roasters here in Philadelphia seem to have a pretty extensive training program for their baristas. You might want to contact them.
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Ummm, no offense, but La Colombe doesn't get much respect in the specialty coffee world... at least not outside of the Philly area.
I'll check out some of the places people have mentioned. Thanks!
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There are several very well known chefs in New York and Las Vegas that give them enough respect to ship in their coffee. They make way more money supplying fine restaurants than they ever did doing retail at two small cafes in Philly. Seems their bottom line is respectable enough. Sales topped 7 million last year.

murkycoffee · February 17, 2005

There are several very well known chefs in New York and Las Vegas that give them enough respect to ship in their coffee. They make way more money supplying fine restaurants than they ever did doing retail at two small cafes in Philly. Seems their bottom line is respectable enough. Sales topped 7 million last year.
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Yeah. Don't get me started on 'fine restaurants' and coffee. :cool:

I'll bet $1,000.00 that I have hands-down better coffee and espresso than ANY restaurant in the U.S., probably in the world. In that, I don't mean to hype my shops; more it is an indictment of the culinary world when it comes to coffee. At least today. People are working on changing that though.

T.Thrasher · February 17, 2005

!!!!

Edited February 17, 2005 by T.Thrasher (log)

T.Thrasher · February 17, 2005

xoxoxo

Edited February 17, 2005 by T.Thrasher (log)

T.Thrasher · February 17, 2005

"Yeah. Don't get me started on 'fine restaurants' and coffee. :cool: "

I was just wondering where have you travelled to source your beans?

What is the optimum temperature for roasted Mocha Java?

How often do you roast your beans?

What "name brand" coffees do you like?

Do you really know what a fine restaurant is?

What style of roasting do you use?

What kind of roaster do you have?

What do you look for in your roast profile for Columbian Beans?

murkycoffee · February 17, 2005

Something the matter?

In case you object to my statement, please first remember that I'm speaking of the fine-dining community as a whole, and no particular restaurant.

Though if you challenge the validity of my statement, I accept the challenge! :-)

T.Thrasher · February 17, 2005

Something the matter?
In case you object to my statement, please first remember that I'm speaking of the fine-dining community as a whole, and no particular restaurant.
Though if you challenge the validity of my statement, I accept the challenge! :-)
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The matter?

Can you answer my questions?

landrumm2000 · February 17, 2005

There are several very well known chefs in New York and Las Vegas that give them enough respect to ship in their coffee. They make way more money supplying fine restaurants than they ever did doing retail at two small cafes in Philly. Seems their bottom line is respectable enough. Sales topped 7 million last year.
←
Yeah. Don't get me started on 'fine restaurants' and coffee.
I'll bet $1,000.00 that I have hands-down better coffee and espresso than ANY restaurant in the U.S., probably in the world. In that, I don't mean to hype my shops; more it is an indictment of the culinary world when it comes to coffee. At least today. People are working on changing that though.
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For some reason I don't see myself heading up the hill for a cup of coffee any time soon.

Actually, I'll take that bet and use the $1,000 to take cabs to Restaurant Eve, where the coffee is as exquisite as the service, for my morning cup.

I'm not sure what one does or says to earn respect in the specialty coffee world, but now I might have some kind of idea how you lose it.

Edited February 17, 2005 by landrumm2000 (log)

T.Thrasher · February 17, 2005

There are several very well known chefs in New York and Las Vegas that give them enough respect to ship in their coffee. They make way more money supplying fine restaurants than they ever did doing retail at two small cafes in Philly. Seems their bottom line is respectable enough. Sales topped 7 million last year.
←
Yeah. Don't get me started on 'fine restaurants' and coffee.
I'll bet $1,000.00 that I have hands-down better coffee and espresso than ANY restaurant in the U.S., probably in the world. In that, I don't mean to hype my shops; more it is an indictment of the culinary world when it comes to coffee. At least today. People are working on changing that though.
←
For some reason I don't see myself heading up the hill for a cup of coffee any time soon.
Actually, I'll take that bet and use the $1,000 to take cabs to Restaurant Eve, where the coffee is as exquisite as the service, for my morning cup.
I'm not sure what one does or says to earn respect in the specialty coffee world, but I might have some kind of idea how to lose it
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Well said, Thank you!!!

HORSEPLAY · February 17, 2005

From now on I'm getting my caffiene from Mnt. Dew. Seems like coffee is getting a little too serious these days :blink:

murkycoffee · February 17, 2005

I was just wondering where have you travelled to source your beans?
What is the optimum temperature for roasted Mocha Java?
How often do you roast your beans?
What "name brand" coffees do you like?
Do you really know what a fine restaurant is?
What style of roasting do you use?
What kind of roaster do you have?
What do you look for in your roast profile for Columbian Beans?
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Ok! It's on!

I was just wondering where have you travelled to source your beans?

I am not a coffee roaster. However, I rely on the true experts in the industry to source the finest coffee in the world. My roaster is Counter Culture Coffee in Durham, North Carolina. They are among the very few of the very best in coffee in the country. Peter Giuliano, their Director of Coffee (head roaster and green buyer) travels to origin extensively. Next month, he will be in both Kenya and Ethiopia.

I considered getting into roasting ourselves, but when I met and saw the best-of-the-best... why would I want to reinvent the wheel? I'd rather enjoy world-class and award-winning coffees!!!

What is the optimum temperature for roasted Mocha Java?

I don't know. Do you? I'm not a roaster... though if I remember correctly, it's more properly "Mocca Java." For coffee brewing, SCAA Golden Cup standards dictate 195*F-205*F.

How often do you roast your beans?

Our beans are roasted once a week. Our coffee is brewed or sold (whole bean) within two weeks (but no fewer than 2-3 days) of roasting, or we don't use it.

What "name brand" coffees do you like?

Counter Culture, Intelligentsia (Chicago), Stumptown (Portland), Taylor Maid (California), Terroir (Boston).

Do you really know what a fine restaurant is?

Peter and I enjoyed the marvelous "Le Creazione" (forgive me if my spelling is off) at Maestro last Friday. I enjoyed talking to the sommelier (I forgot his name) about the coffee, which (unfortunately) is from Illy. Illy is a great coffee roaster, but Illy in the U.S. (and most other places) is only available in months-old cans. Nitrogen-washed or not, old coffee is old coffee.

What style of roasting do you use?

Counter Culture has two different roasters, both PID-modified drum roasters. Our espresso is northern-Italian style, and is a light-roast. As far as our other single-origin coffees, the coffee is roasted and Agtron-spectographed to ensure that the roast profile brings out the best that that particular coffee has to offer.

What kind of roaster do you have?

See above... I don't have one... but I have both a La Marzocco Linea 3-group semiauto with Schomer-modified banjo tubes, and a Synesso Cyncra 3-group for my espresso machines. I have FETCO Extractor-series drip brewers, Mahlkonig (sp?) grinders for drip, a bunch of french-presses on the way for 'cafetiere' coffee.

What do you look for in your roast profile for Columbian Beans?

Unfortunately, Colombian coffee hasn't been very good in the past few years... but the green buyers (from the 'favorite brands' list above) are discovering beautiful new Colombians this year!

Like I said, don't take offense. When more people see that coffee should be truly appreciated as a culinary experience unto itself (instead of merely a caffeine-delivery-system or a denoument to dinner), we're hoping to see the fine-dining community take notice.

Any more questions? I'd love to have you over some time for some coffee Todd!!! Seriously! I'm so happy to talk to culinary-folks about coffee and espresso! I'm also looking forward to visiting Restaurant Eve myself!

Edited February 17, 2005 by murkycoffee (log)

KatieLoeb · February 17, 2005

Me thinks that cash that was bet would be better served put toward some extensive marketing. Telling Daniel Boulud, Jean-Marie LaCroix, Georges Perrier as well as the Ritz Carlton and Four Seasons hotels that they're serving inferior product in a public forum probably isn't the best way to earn respect in the specialty coffee world or in any culinary circles. Perhaps when Murky Coffee sales are topping 7 million annually and those famed chefs you've just insulted by telling them they have no palates have become your customers, there will be something to report publicly. And since you aren't roasting your own product then you're really not competing on the same playing field anyway, are you?

I do wonder why you named your enterprise Murky Coffee. Was it meant as a joke?

landrumm2000 · February 17, 2005

I was just wondering where have you travelled to source your beans?
What is the optimum temperature for roasted Mocha Java?
How often do you roast your beans?
What "name brand" coffees do you like?
Do you really know what a fine restaurant is?
What style of roasting do you use?
What kind of roaster do you have?
What do you look for in your roast profile for Columbian Beans?
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Any more questions? I'd love to have you over some time for some coffee Todd!!! Seriously! I'm so happy to talk to culinary-folks about coffee and espresso! I'm also looking forward to visiting Restaurant Eve myself!
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Hurry up to Restaurant Eve and then hurry down to Ray's with my money. Do not pass Maestro. Do not think the "culinary folks" are happy to talk to you. Do show discretion and respect while commenting on the work of others.

murkycoffee · February 17, 2005

Actually, yes... 'murky coffee' is intended to be a little tongue-in-cheek.

As far as respect in the specialty coffee industry, I stand firmly by my statements. This is NOT an indictment of the Ritz, the Four Seasons, or anyone!!! This is actually much more an issue of education within the specialty coffee industry itself.

For instance, 99.9% of people don't know that coffee, JUST like wine, cannot be categorized in broad-brushed ways! "Kenyan coffee" is like saying, "French wine." Yes, there are certain unique characteristics about French wines, but would a wine store sell bottles marked merely "French Wine?" I confess to writing these things with no appreciable knowledge of wines!!!

However, let's say that you do, as is proper to do so, categorize your wines not just by country of origin, but by the winery that produced it. So would it suffice to put the country and winery? Of course not! What of the grape itself? What of the vintage year?

My point is to say that the way coffee is sold, marketed, and understood by 99.9% of people is in a way, comparable to wine being merely labeled "French!"

Want more? A great number of coffee roasters, YES, even perhaps YOUR roaster, knowingly substitute one origin bean for another! If your small-to-medium roaster has NEVER told you, "Oh, we're out of that particular green bean right now, so we can't give it to you roasted," chances are, there has been some surreptitious switching going on!

It is of NO FAULT of the "culinary folks" at all. When I ask around to the expert-experts, "Why is coffee so 'shady'?" The most common response is that coffee is grown in Third World countries, and the economic situations in each of those countries effects the way coffee is bought and sold from the coffee farms. The stability or lack thereof in these nations effects the way coffee is exported, and there's a trickle-down effect down the supply chain.

These are ALL problems within the coffee industry itself, and people are working to fix them. Please, please, please... do not think I have any disrespect for ANYONE, other than those in the coffee industry who knowingly deceive their customers.

There is a competition held in certain coffee growing regions called "The Cup of Excellence." Coffee growers from around that country come and offer their beans for cupping. This is followed by an auction, therefore rewarding the best that the coffee-growing region has to offer. The winner is awarded that year's "Cup of Excellence" award for that country.

I would be honored to share some CoE coffees with the "culinary folks" on this board. CoE coffees are, as you can imagine, rare, expensive, and in short supply. Once it's gone, it's gone. I'm expecting a shipment sometime soon, and I'm bringing you a bag, Todd, and any other DC area "culinary folks" who are interested! (Just PM or email me!)

To be clear, I do NOT sell wholesale coffee, and do NOT intend to! In doing this, I have ZERO interest in financial gain! Yes, I'm proud of what we've been able to achieve in a very short time at murky, but I spend a great deal of time helping people who are trying to make their start in the business onto the right path. It is because I have a passion for coffee that supersedes financial interests, and I have a passion for PEOPLE beyond even that for coffee! It's FUN talking about this stuff, and this isn't the first time that I find myself in a "they think I'm nuts!" position!

I LOVE coffee! I want to see it better! Sorry if I've ruffled feathers, but I don't take anything back! Sorry! :wub:

Edited February 17, 2005 by murkycoffee (log)

murkycoffee · February 17, 2005

Oh... one more thing...

When I made my (bold) claim about $1000... please note that I wrote "coffee and espresso."

About those coffee roasters I mentioned before... Counter Culture provides coffee for "Magnolia Grill" in Durham, NC. Intelligentsia roasts the coffee for Charlie Trotter in Chicago. Though I might argue that neither of these GREAT restaurants (I've only been to Magnolia Grill) stays on top of all of the little details, like grinding fresh per batch, using coffee roasted between 2-14 days ago, maintaining their coffee grinder and replacing burrs as necessary, etc.; they're clearly dealing with the best that coffee has to offer.

Espresso is an ENTIRELY different story, and to be honest, I threw that in there because that's what makes my statement REALLY true! :biggrin:

Edited February 17, 2005 by murkycoffee (log)

HOOLIGAN · February 17, 2005

I would be honored to share some CoE coffees with the "culinary folks" on this board. CoE coffees are, as you can imagine, rare, expensive, and in short supply. Once it's gone, it's gone. I'm expecting a shipment sometime soon, and I'm bringing you a bag, Todd, and any other DC area "culinary folks" who are interested! (Just PM or email me!)
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Do you have any of that Vietnamese stuff that cats crap out, that sounds delish. And as some chefs know "My Kitty Likes Kitty Food."

murkycoffee · February 17, 2005

Do you have any of that Vietnamese stuff that cats crap out, that sounds delish. And as some chefs know "My Kitty Likes Kitty Food."
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You mean Kupi Luwak coffee?

No. I don't. I don't deal with gimmicks in my business. (except for one :blink: )

Mark Sommelier · February 17, 2005

Do you have any of that Vietnamese stuff that cats crap out, that sounds delish. And as some chefs know "My Kitty Likes Kitty Food."
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You mean Kupi Luwak coffee?
No. I don't. I don't deal with gimmicks in my business. (except for one )
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Nick,

Come on, lighten up! Wouldn't it be fun to order a "double cat crap latte with 2% milk"? You could charge a lot for that. :raz:

hjshorter · February 17, 2005

Nice to see DC's giant egos on full display once again.

Nick, do you have any plans to open in the Maryland 'burbs?

syzygy8 · February 17, 2005

Do you have any of that Vietnamese stuff that cats crap out, that sounds delish. And as some chefs know "My Kitty Likes Kitty Food."
←
You mean Kupi Luwak coffee?
No. I don't. I don't deal with gimmicks in my business. (except for one )
←
Nick,
Come on, lighten up! Wouldn't it be fun to order a "double cat crap latte with 2% milk"? You could charge a lot for that.
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Genius! :laugh:

We should take this to Sietsema's chat next week.

T.Thrasher · February 17, 2005

Seriously for the finest coffee experience from a true perfectionist contact Vincent at Cafe Pronto in anapolis. I am going to ask him to join the discussion.

mnebergall · February 17, 2005

Hey Todd, I noticed your new signature line. What does it mean to be a "head" painter? Is that some sort of "bald" joke? Because if it is, some of us might not think it funny. :angry: :raz:

HORSEPLAY · February 17, 2005

Do you have any of that Vietnamese stuff that cats crap out, that sounds delish. And as some chefs know "My Kitty Likes Kitty Food."
←
You mean Kupi Luwak coffee?
No. I don't. I don't deal with gimmicks in my business. (except for one )
←
Nick,
Come on, lighten up! Wouldn't it be fun to order a "double cat crap latte with 2% milk"? You could charge a lot for that.
←

"Cats crap coffee"? Isn't that a song by Ted Nugent? :raz:

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