Cheese (2005–2008)

gariotin · July 28, 2006

Oooo - what an exciting thread! I have been in the specialty cheese business for over 25 years, as an importer, distributor, and now broker.

I just returned from Portland, Oregon last weekend from the annual conference of The American Cheese Society. This wonderful group of cheesemakers, and the people who sell their cheeses, culminates in the "Festival of Cheeses" - this year, over 900! We start cutting, plating, and displaying all these cheeses at 7 in the morning and it takes a group of 30-40 volunteers to get them all ready for the Festival that evening. Spirited competition takes place between folks carving mammoth cheddars. You have never seen so many American artisinal cheeses in your life - it is something to be proud of! And there are wonderful American sheep milk cheeses - Sally Jackson in the Northwest does a beautiful leaf-wrapped one, and Old Chatham Sheepherders in upstate NY makes great camemberts and Mutton Buttons.

As for some of the other posts - Mary Quicke is one of the cheese world's greatest - she just got a MBE from the Queen, but is the most down-to-earth person you'll ever meet. Her family has been on the same farm in Devon for over 450 years and they are truly caretakers of the land. There is also an oak-smoked version of her cheddar available, which is delicious.

As for Roquefort, I am partial to Carles brand - small manufacturer. You can find it at Whole Foods and lots of cheesemongers.

I miss the "old days", when we could get raw milk cheeses here in the States. It is a sad state of affairs not to be able to eat a real Selles sur Cher or Valencay. There is a group called the Cheese for Choice Coalition that is still working on this issue, so there may still be hope.

One last little note - my screen name of Gariotin refers to one of my favorite little French goat cheeses, available here in the States at many Whole Foods and good cheesemongers. It refers to the name of the little huts that shepherds used to sleep in while they were out with their flocks - the cheese is made in the same shape as the hut.

Here's to cheese!

stinkycheeseman · July 28, 2006

All,

It is wonderful finding a cheese thread here on egullet, and even better that so many of you are excited about the world of cheese! It seems many of you have already developed some favorites over the years, or are enjoying being introduced to new amazing cheeses, as well.

You should all know that American artisan cheesemakers are really on the brink of the next wave of the movement, with various types/varieties being introduced every year. The U.S. is producing some un-rivaled cheeses, that are quickly gaining respect throughout the world.

A great example of this is the famous Neal's Yard Dairy in London, and their recent commitment to carrying American artisan cheese. Only recently has Europe allowed the importation of American cheese- quite a feat for the U.S. I would say, considering Europe's history with 'fromage'.

In fact, this year the Americans took bronze, silver AND gold medals at the World Cheese Awards in London. Check here for the full listing of American competitors and winners: http://www.finefoodworld.co.uk/

The new generation of cheesemaker in America is quality focused, and dedicated to ideals such as sustainability and biodynamics. It is an excititng time to be a cheese lover in the US, and to be able to support the industry is a paramount goal of mine personally, and of my company.

We suggest you join us by buying locally, seasonally, and helping establish these small, family owned and operated farms. Watching them succeed at a truly magical craft that is the result of incredible hard work and a deep passion, is inspiring for us all.

Enjoy the cheese thread....and don't forget to stop and smell the cheeses!

-Matt

MarketStEl · July 29, 2006

I just returned from Portland, Oregon last weekend from the annual conference of The American Cheese Society. This wonderful group of cheesemakers, and the people who sell their cheeses, culminates in the "Festival of Cheeses" - this year, over 900! We start cutting, plating, and displaying all these cheeses at 7 in the morning and it takes a group of 30-40 volunteers to get them all ready for the Festival that evening. Spirited competition takes place between folks carving mammoth cheddars. You have never seen so many American artisinal cheeses in your life - it is something to be proud of! And there are wonderful American sheep milk cheeses - Sally Jackson in the Northwest does a beautiful leaf-wrapped one, and Old Chatham Sheepherders in upstate NY makes great camemberts and Mutton Buttons.
As for some of the other posts - Mary Quicke is one of the cheese world's greatest - she just got a MBE from the Queen, but is the most down-to-earth person you'll ever meet. Her family has been on the same farm in Devon for over 450 years and they are truly caretakers of the land. There is also an oak-smoked version of her cheddar available, which is delicious.
As for Roquefort, I am partial to Carles brand - small manufacturer. You can find it at Whole Foods and lots of cheesemongers.
I miss the "old days", when we could get raw milk cheeses here in the States. It is a sad state of affairs not to be able to eat a real Selles sur Cher or Valencay. There is a group called the Cheese for Choice Coalition that is still working on this issue, so there may still be hope.
One last little note - my screen name of Gariotin refers to one of my favorite little French goat cheeses, available here in the States at many Whole Foods and good cheesemongers. It refers to the name of the little huts that shepherds used to sleep in while they were out with their flocks - the cheese is made in the same shape as the hut.
Here's to cheese!
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Some questions and comments for you:

--Were Green Valley Dairy or Hendricks Farms at this event? These are two of the best cheesemakers in Southeastern Pennsylvania. I'm a big fan of Green Valley's Pennsylvania Noble, which is the best Cheddar-style cheese I've ever eaten. I may pop for a quarter pound when I head up to the Reading Terminal Market later today so I can share some with you all (I'd go for a whole pound ordinarily, but I can't justify the $20 right now).

--Do any of the better large-scale producers, like Tillamook or Cabot, enter this event?

--"...the 'old days,' when we could get raw milk cheeses in the States...": You mean imported raw milk cheeses, right? Several states still allow the production and sale of raw milk and/or raw milk products. I'm lucky enough to live in one of them. Both of the cheesemakers I mentioned above make raw milk cheeses, and that raw milk Colby I raved about upthread is also from a Pennsylvania dairy. Like Pennsylvania wine, Pennsylvania cheese has come a long way in a short time.

All,
It is wonderful finding a cheese thread here on egullet, and even better that so many of you are excited about the world of cheese! It seems many of you have already developed some favorites over the years, or are enjoying being introduced to new amazing cheeses, as well.
You should all know that American artisan cheesemakers are really on the brink of the next wave of the movement, with various types/varieties being introduced every year. The U.S. is producing some un-rivaled cheeses, that are quickly gaining respect throughout the world.
A great example of this is the famous Neal's Yard Dairy in London, and their recent commitment to carrying American artisan cheese. Only recently has Europe allowed the importation of American cheese- quite a feat for the U.S. I would say, considering Europe's history with 'fromage'.
In fact, this year the Americans took bronze, silver AND gold medals at the World Cheese Awards in London. Check here for the full listing of American competitors and winners: http://www.finefoodworld.co.uk/
The new generation of cheesemaker in America is quality focused, and dedicated to ideals such as sustainability and biodynamics. It is an excititng time to be a cheese lover in the US, and to be able to support the industry is a paramount goal of mine personally, and of my company.
We suggest you join us by buying locally, seasonally, and helping establish these small, family owned and operated farms. Watching them succeed at a truly magical craft that is the result of incredible hard work and a deep passion, is inspiring for us all.
Enjoy the cheese thread....and don't forget to stop and smell the cheeses!
-Matt
←

I'm doing what I can here. I have to agree with whoever it is that called cheese "milk's leap toward immortality."

The day before yesterday, my nurse suggested modifying my diet as a way to get my LDL cholesterol down. I may end up sabotaging the plan--I just can't give up my cheese! (Yeah, yeah, I know--just cut down on how much I eat...)

Chris Amirault · July 29, 2006

Sandy, I think that was good old Clifton Fadiman.

Dave Hatfield · July 29, 2006

--"...the 'old days,' when we could get raw milk cheeses in the States...": You mean imported raw milk cheeses, right?

I'm a bit confused. When we left Rhode Island to move to France in 2002 we could still get some French raw milk cheeses at Wholefoods. Not very many, but at least a few.

Have the laws changed since then? A pity, if so.

Stu-i-moto · July 29, 2006

Oh yeah, and don't get me going on cheese toppers - for some reason most Americans believe that if you put anything on or with your cheese, that it is no longer cheese.
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The soft cheeses also lend themselves well to toppings and accompaniments.
So what do you top yours with (depending on the variety, of course)?
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In the Pyrennies region of France/Spain, they produce mostly sheep's milk cheese. There is a tradition there of spreading some black cherry jam on toast with a slice of good sheep's milk cheese. It's addictive.

I don't think you need to be concerned about what you eat your cheese with, as long as: a) YOU like it, b) it goes with your wine, of course...

Stu-i-moto · July 29, 2006

I once saw an episode of Twin Peaks where one of the characters raved about a baguette with brie and butter.
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It's very typical to use butter on a sandwich in Europe (vs. mayo, mustard, ketchup). I much prefer it myself as well -

It is also common to eat very salty cheeses, like Roquefort, with butter. The butterfat cuts the saltiness of the cheese.

Stu-i-moto · July 29, 2006

I'm excited by this thread so I went out & bought some cheeses today so I could play around. Here's the first result.
The cheese is St Nectaire. Not a rare or unusual cheese, but one that has a long history. It has certainly been made for hundreds of years and has very likely been made for over a thousand years. It is made in the uplands of the massif central not far South of Clermont-Ferrand.

St. Nectaire is indeed a "classic". There are 40 AOC-approved cheeses in France. AOC represents the name-controlled cheeses, where minute aspects of the production, packaging, etc. are specifically outlines to protect the artisanal methods. The Auvergne has five of these, more than any other region in France. The five are:- Cantal, St.Nectaire, Bleu d'Auvergne, Fourme d'Ambert and Salers.

Auvergne isn't exactly a tourist destination in France; it has traditionally not been the easiest place to get to. But because of it's rich, volcanic soil, it is a heartland in France, and a great place for producing cheese.

Stu-i-moto · July 29, 2006

At the same time many of the traditional cheeses have suffered from sloppy making and over production. For example; there's brie & then there's brie!

That's why you would need to look for (or ask for) "AOC" on the label. There is only one AOC-approved brie, which is Brie de Meaux. It is *night-and-day* different (and better) than other varieties you can find in the U.S. There are also cousins of brie that are quite good, all made with raw cow's milk. They go by different names-

Unfortunately, the farmers who produce the "real" brie have not done a good job of protecting the brie brand. Maybe this responsibility should also fall on the shoulders of the French government. As a result, "brie" is made in 100 different countries, including Russia and Mexico.

Now, due to the U.S. Bioterrorism Act (passed after 9-11), French producers are sending a pasteurized version of Brie de Meaux over to the U.S. Be careful - and ask - your local cheese merchant if the cheese is "AOC Brie de Meaux" or not. Or ask to see the box it came in or the label (depending on the cheese). The right one will have AOC on it and it will also have on the ingredients list "au lait cru" - made with raw milk. I have even caught Whole Paycheck (a.k.a. Whole Foods) selling the "close imitiator" here in San Francisco. It's misleading to customers - but most don't know any better. So now you know...

gariotin · July 29, 2006

According to the Judging Guide, both Green Valley Dairy and Hendricks Farms had cheeses in the competition - wish I could tell you I remembered their products, but at 900+, one is hard-pressed to taste more than the category winners.

Yes, many of the more commercial dairies also compete and this year, Cabot won the Best of Show for their interesting clothbound cheddar. This cheese is made at Cabot and then aged for them by Jasper Hill Farm, a great Vt cheesemaking farm. (Jasper Hill makes a delicious blue called Bayley Hazen Blue and a very interesting small soft-ripened called Constant Bliss. CB is fabulous when you can find it perfectly ripened, but beware, as it is sometimes being offered when it is past it's prime.)The cheddar is very delicious, and I would imagine you will begin seeing it at fine cheese retailers.

The raw milk question is complicated - the law, which addresses imported cheeses aged for less than 60 days, has been around as long as I've been in the business - at least 25+ years. For many years, it was quietly ignored, and many cheeses were brought in under the radar. It is true that even a few years ago, places like Whole Foods were selling the true, AOC versions of chevres and soft-ripeneds. Even before 9/11, things were starting to get tightened up, but that led to big changes for importers. It's just not worth the risk for them anymore.

I would understand our government's concern for our well-being if there was a world-wide problem of cheese-bourne illnesses. Have you heard of people falling dead all over France from eating raw milk cheeses? Gee, neither have I. I have nothing to base this on but conspiracy theory, but I think there must have been some lobbying from big business way back when that convinced legislators that these products were dangerous. They have been protecting our health, even when presented with facts to the contrary, ever since.

Abra · July 29, 2006

Last night I discovered Manouri.

"Manouri is a traditional ancient Greek cheese that is made from the whey of feta, blended with sheep's milk cream. In addition to being used in the traditional Greek delicacy spanakopita, this rindless log-shaped cheese is an exceptionally delicious eating cheese. With a moist, soft texture, Manouri is at first soft and buttery, followed by a uniquely lemony aftertaste."

It doesn't look like much but it's at least as good as the description makes it sound, and is a great find for us.

I'd have loved to go down to Portland for the cheese weekend. Was it open to the public? I have to say that Mutton Button should win an award in the category of "cute cheese names." What, there's no such category yet?

Edited July 29, 2006 by Abra (log)

gariotin · July 29, 2006

Abra, I believe the conference is open only to members of the American Cheese Society - but anyone can be a member. There are many "cheese enthusiasts" who belong - check out their website at www.cheesesociety.org.

You are so right about Manouri - it is a great summer cheese. Light and tangy and goes well w/veggies, salads, and fruit. One of my favorite quick summer recipes is to dress a mixture of arugula, sweet onion, watermelon chunks, and kalamata olives with a lemoney vinaigrette. Stir in chunks of feta or Manouri and serve w/good bread and grilled fish or shrimp - everyone loves it!

Stu-i-moto · July 29, 2006

The raw milk question is complicated - the law, which addresses imported cheeses aged for less than 60 days, has been around as long as I've been in the business - at least 25+ years. For many years, it was quietly ignored, and many cheeses were brought in under the radar. It is true that even a few years ago, places like Whole Foods were selling the true, AOC versions of chevres and soft-ripeneds. Even before 9/11, things were starting to get tightened up, but that led to big changes for importers. It's just not worth the risk for them anymore.

Let me expand on this point: The law, which is governed by the FDA, relates to *any* cheese (foreign or domestic) that is made with raw milk and aged less than 60 days. AOC Brie de Meaux, for example, is a raw milk cheese that is aged for 45 days. Most goat's milk cheese is aged a very short period of time, typically from as little as 7 days to 45 days.

Before 9/11, cheese came into the U.S. and customs either looked the other way, or they were told the cheese was made with pasteurized milk when it wasn't. After the Bioterrorism Act came into play, however, the process for bringing anything with organic material/contents into the U.S. changed. Now, you have to get pre-authorization from the FDA and U.S. Customs. In order to get this, you have to detail what your product is (in this case, cheese), where it came from, how it's made and where the ingredients came from. This process change is what effectively shut the door on the importation of most fresh raw-milk cheeses from France and everywhere else. The cheeses that are "close" to 60 days, like Brie, can be aged another 15 days and then sent over. So you can still get AOC Brie, if you look real hard. Other cheeses just don't have their special flair if they hold them over too long. Think of a banana that's overripe and you'll have a sense for what I mean.

I would understand our government's concern for our well-being if there was a world-wide problem of cheese-bourne illnesses. Have you heard of people falling dead all over France from eating raw milk cheeses? Gee, neither have I. I have nothing to base this on but conspiracy theory, but I think there must have been some lobbying from big business way back when that convinced legislators that these products were dangerous. They have been protecting our health, even when presented with facts to the contrary, ever since.

This is not a health issue, it is a money issue. The stated reason has been that there are food-borne illnesses associated with raw milk products, most notably, listeriosis. You can get listeriosis from a piece of cheese made with pasteurized milk, by the way. It just depends on when the infection/bacteria reached the cheese - pre-pasteurization or post. Europeans are not dropping dead from eating cheese. What makes me laugh even more is how pregnant women here avoid raw milk cheese like the plague because they think they (or their unborn baby) will drop dead from it. Meanwhile, you can go to a Bennigan's in Pittsburgh and get some scallions on your nachos that are infected with Hepatitis. The whole premise is laughable.

It is much more difficult and expensive to make cheese with raw milk. In France, you have to test every batch of milk for pathogens before it goes into production. That means you have to dump batches of milk if they don't pass. If you produce cheese using pasteurized milk, you can use 100% of what you take in. This also means you can take in a lower quality product - it all gets smoothed out in the end. Unfortunately, the flavor goes away as well. Try boiling a bottle of your favorite wine before you drink it. You'll see what I mean.

You can tell this is a soapbox issue for me...

gariotin · July 30, 2006

Me too, Stu!

When my daughter got pregnant last year, one of the very first things they told her to avoid were raw milk cheeses! I could not believe it! I had a huge argument w/her OB - they just tell women this b/c it was in some medical journal they read, not b/c they really know anything about it!

You are so right - small farmers that make cheese from their own herds have to be more attentive to the cleanliness of their operations than folks whose milk get mixed with many farmers and pasteurized. Listeriosis is just as much a possibility with pasteurized product as raw milk.

Raw milk cheese just rocks and it is a sin that we are not allowed to eat imported products. I feel that is like eating raw shellfish - you know that if you eat raw oysters or clams you are taking a risk, but you make the choice to do so. This should be our choice as well.

Dave Hatfield · July 30, 2006

You are so right - small farmers that make cheese from their own herds have to be more attentive to the cleanliness of their operations than folks whose milk get mixed with many farmers and pasteurized. Listeriosis is just as much a possibility with pasteurized product as raw milk.
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Absolutely right! Some of you may remember that there were a few cases of listeriosis in England during the early 90's. Of course, raw milk cheeses were blamed.

Investigation showed that the culprits were factory produced cheeses made with pasteurised milk. That factories just wern't keeping their hygeine up to scratch.

Such is the stupidity of some laws & some medical opinion.

Pontormo · July 30, 2006

I just learned about Philippe Olivier's shop in Boulogne-sur-Mer.

It was presented as one of the best places in the world for a cheese-lover to visit.

Reports?

gini · July 31, 2006

Here's a bleu question. What I love is a ripe Bleu des Causses, Valdeon, Cabrales, the really pungent ones. A bleu that's mild, or even really creamy, just doesn't speak to me the same way as the more wham! pow! bleus do. What other bleus do you all think I might like?
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Well, Abra, a very good pungent bleu from France is your average classic Roquefort. I have an uncle from the town of Roquefort who advises that the best one to get is Papillon brand. It's quite common here but a great classic bleu.
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Papillon to me is the classic bleu. I've been eating it for years in the states, but recently, my cheeseshop told me they stopped carrying it because of the quality of import. They've replaced it with another Roquefort which was quite tasty, but not as nostalgic.

Pensage · July 31, 2006

MarketSEI Wrote:

"Were Green Valley Dairy or Hendricks Farms at this event? These are two of the best cheesemakers in Southeastern Pennsylvania. I'm a big fan of Green Valley's Pennsylvania Noble, which is the best Cheddar-style cheese I've ever eaten. I may pop for a quarter pound when I head up to the Reading Terminal Market later today so I can share some with you all (I'd go for a whole pound ordinarily, but I can't justify the $20 right now)."

Sandy,

Hendricks Farms & Dairy won 1st Place at the ACS Conference in the American Made/International Style Category for their Bavarian Swiss!! I believe it was the only cheese Trent sent this time.

Edited July 31, 2006 by Pensage (log)

gariotin · July 31, 2006

Gini,

I agree w/your cheesemonger - Papillon is not what it used to be.

Try Carles, if you can get it, but Coulet is also excellent.

The chevre looks fabulous - give props to your local cheese vendor - where did you buy it?

gini · August 1, 2006

Gini,
I agree w/your cheesemonger - Papillon is not what it used to be.
Try Carles, if you can get it, but Coulet is also excellent.
The chevre looks fabulous - give props to your local cheese vendor - where did you buy it?
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Formaggio Kitchen in Cambridge, MA. Formaggio Kitchen They're a touch expensive, but have really excellent product.

gariotin · August 1, 2006

Small world - I live on the South Shore.

Yes, Formaggio Kitchen is a gem - we are lucky in the Boston area to have some great cheesemongers.

Where do other folks buy their good cheeses?

Abra · August 1, 2006

We have a couple of good places to get cheese in Seattle, but since it's a $22 ferry ride for me to get there, I often get cheese from iGourmet. They have a wide variety and many interesting choices, and I've never had their cheese arrive in anything but excellent condition.

Kris · August 1, 2006

We have a couple of good places to get cheese in Seattle, but since it's a $22 ferry ride for me to get there, I often get cheese from iGourmet. They have a wide variety and many interesting choices, and I've never had their cheese arrive in anything but excellent condition.
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I've been looking at igourmet but I was wondering how they ship their cheeses - overnight?

I typically get my cheeses from http://www.murrayscheese.com in NYC.

I've also gotten cheeses from Whole Foods - I know, I know they sell most of their cheese pre-wrapped. But they sell a nice goat cheese called Tomme Fleur Vert which they cut on the spot for you.

sadistick · August 1, 2006

One of the great things about French cheese is that there are so many kinds that you can always discover something new. One of the great ones I have discovered this year is the Rouelle Cendrée.
It's a goat's cheese that is best once it has had a chance to soften and liquify ever so slightly just below the surface of the ash covered crust which has developed its delicious crust enough to ripple and buckle. The day I discovered this cheese was a very happy day for me.
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Oh Lucy...how envious I am! :wub:

I still remember being introduced to great french cheese at age 15 when my uncle brought back some from his trip to France. I then recall vividly at age 16 going to my first cheese shop in Paris, and loading up this huge Tupperwear container with soft unpasturized cheeses stuffing it in the suitecase and hoping it made its way back with us through customs to Canada!

This thread is amazing, I will have to take some pictures the next time I am at the local cheese shop down in Kensington Market (Global cheese)...They do have a great selection, but not comparable to that of the stores in Paris.

Also may be interesting to note what wine (or other drink) you had with the cheese(s).

CaliPoutine · August 1, 2006

parm reggiano. Bought at Costco in London, Ontario.

19.99kg = 9.08lbCD

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