Deba Knives

[fauxtarga]

I really like the feel and workability of a Deba style knife, not to mention the way it looks and the "concept" of the knife.

Searching through these forums I got the impression that some of you used them as your primary knives. Any thoughts on the limitations and potential caveats to this practice? What obstacles might one run into in relatively standard usage?

I'm considering shelving my 8 inch western chef's knife and upgrading my Deba to one of these monsters

http://watanabeblade.com/english/pro/kuro.htm

as my primary tool.

Any experiences with these, or more generally, switching to a knife like this as your primary blade? I've read through the posts on using chinese cleavers as all purpose tools, but that's definitely too much of a jump for me. I'm constantly blown away by the knowledge present on EG, thanks in advance.

[Octaveman]

Speaking as someone who uses a deba but not as my primary knife, all I can say is that this knife is thick and heavy. My opinion is that it is not designed nor intended to be a primary knife for everyday work. My 180MM Watanabe deba weighs almost 3/4 of a pound and is used for cutting up chickens in my house but it's mainly used for breaking down large cuts of fish and beef. I don't have a Chinese cleaver but I think those things are much thinner and lighter than a deba which lends themselves for everyday/all day use. I could not see myself using a deba to cut veggies all day...way to heavy for that.

I would recommend getting a Gyutou for everyday work. It uses Japanese steel with a western blade design. Much lighter, thinner and very well balanced (not blade heavy). I have a 270MM Hattori HD that is my go-to knife every time. I love it. Another option that has a closer design to the Deba is a Santoku. Check those out and see if they fit the bill.

Cheers,

Bob

Edited January 29, 2005 by Octaveman (log)

[Country Cook]

All these types of knives are for right hand use only due to the single bevel (they do make the odd left handed ones but they are more expensive and hard to get) so they are out for a lefty like me.

[EdS]

As you probably already know, a deba isn't considered a general purpose knife. It's a specialized knife mainly used for filleting fish but is also used for cutting of chicken, including light bones, and meat. They are usually rather heavy and thick.

That said, the largest deba looks like a possibility, as eccentric and unrecommended it would be considered by most. All debas I've seen have a single bevel, with its strengths and weaknesses. I think I'd mostly be worried that the blade would be too thick, functioning as a wedge. That's not an issue with a similarly thick yanagi-ba (sashimi knife) because you're mostly slicing off of one end of something. You might consider something like a thin-bladed wide santoku if you want a Japanese knife in a wide triangular pattern.

My primary knife is now a Kai Shun Chinese cleaver. I didn't jump from a chef's knife to the Chinese cleaver, however. I had been using a Wüsthof 10-in. wide chef's knife as my primary and then got more into Japanese cooking. I picked up a Global G-5 vegetable knife, a nakiri. I found myself enjoying all the precision knifework and in the process learned how to put a rectangular blade to use. I would encourage anyone wondering about why someone would want to use a rectangular blade over a western chef's knife to look at Japanese Cooking: A Simple Art by Shizuo Tsuji and The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking by Barbara Tropp as both books illustrate how these knives are used. It got to the point that I was using the nakiri for most everything.

I found myself wanting a larger one. Then it struck me that a nakiri and a Chinese cleaver are cousins, with the latter being typically a bit larger and certainly wider (i.e. taller). I'd lose the ability to easily take a daikon (Japanese radish) cylinder and turn it into a long sheet in my hand, but I'd otherwise have the advantages that come with a larger knife. I did some research on the available Japanese-made Chinese cleavers and played around with a few cheap Chinese cleavers in Chinatown and that led me to ordering the Shun.

It would be wise for you to handle a large deba, if you haven't done so already, before spending a lot of money on a custom one.

Edited to add: I do not recommend the Global G-7 deba. I've had the edge roll in spots several times on light chicken bones which a deba should handle. The steel is too soft, certainly softer than the better Japanese knives now on the market. I wasn't aware of the other brands before I bought this one. I would not have bought Global knives if I knew what else was out there.

Edited January 29, 2005 by esvoboda (log)

[EdS]

fauxtarga, I'm curious what led you to thinking about using a deba as a primary knife.

I have an issue with the gyutos in that they are based on a Western pattern that in my eyes is more similar to a French chef's knife. I have an old E. Dehillerin 10-in. carbon steel chef's knife and the thing that moved me to the Wüsthof was that it had a more pronounced belly which I feel is a good thing in a Western chef's knife. I even compared the normal and wide models and went with the wide so I'd have even more width and belly to the blade. I handled a high-end $1200 Hattori at my local knife shop a few weeks ago along with the more common gyutos which I even had the opportunity to use. The thin blade was great--I'm all for that--but I disliked the blade pattern. I wonder if you feel the same way and are thus looking at the deba? No offense to anyone out there, by the way. Knife choice is very personal!

Perhaps it'd be cool to have a custom Watanabe gyuto made in a modified pattern?

Edited January 29, 2005 by esvoboda (log)

[chopjwu12]

using a deba as a main knife doesn't make sence. Its not meant for that. The thing people dont get about the japanese is that they make a knife for every task. I ohnestly think that they only made chefs knives for american and european needs. Think about it you look at any true set of japanese knives and you dont see a chefs knive. You see specific usage knives. I have a deba and use it quite often to break down alot of fish and i use it for some meat projects. Besides the knives your looking at are shit anyway. My deba cost me over 300 dollars and that was on the cheaper end of a good deba. Go to korins website and call them. They can help you with all your needs.

[EdS]

I tried using that Global deba of mine as a chef's knife tonight to get through some vegetables. Nah, it's just awkward. The profile isn't right for that purpose. I take back what I said about considering a deba.

[fauxtarga]

Thanks for all the advice, thinking about it, it probably would be kind of unweildy, though I like something with a little heft. The thickness is probably more of an issue for me than the weight - I'll look into some of the other blades you recommended. Cheers.

[Octaveman]

All these types of knives are for right hand use only due to the single bevel (they do make the odd left handed ones but they are more expensive and hard to get) so they are out for a lefty like me.

←

By "All these types" you mean all the types listed, Deba, Gyuto, Santuko? The only single beveled knife out of those listed is the Deba. The others are double beveled as are all Japanese Western Style knives. The three most common traditional knives, Yanagi, Deba and Usuba are single bevel. The western style knives don't have the traditional round Ho wood handle but have the same style handle as european knives. Plus you get the benefit of thin, hard Japanese blades. Best of both worlds, I say. I replaced my old Henckles with a rack full of traditional and western style Japanese knives and I love them all.

Cheers,

Bob

[EdS]

Thanks for all the advice, thinking about it, it probably would be kind of unweildy, though I like something with a little heft. The thickness is probably more of an issue for me than the weight - I'll look into some of the other blades you recommended. Cheers.

←

FYI, slkinsey brought up a George Tichbourne knife a while back that might be along the lines of something you might like. I don't know if you are necessarily looking for something Japanese.

Edited: I'm setting a new record for typos today.

Edited January 29, 2005 by esvoboda (log)

[chapeaulong]

My Suisin 7 1/2" Deba is very versatile and I feel comfortable using it for chopping vegetables as well as cutting up chickens. Not all Debas are really thick and heavy. With knives its important to hold it and try it before you buy it. Unfortunately thats almost impossible depending on where you live. Japanese knives all have specific purposes, but how practical is that for the average american cook. Any place I've ever worked, I don't have the time to keep 12 different knives sharp, let alone the space to keep all my knives out and ready for use. For these two reasons, my Deba, along with a small paring knife, and a 10 1/2" japanese chefs knife serve as a perfect "primary set."