"The Bread Baker's Apprentice" by Reinhart

[Behemoth]

I hope someone out there (Elie??) will see this question and help me.

I finally bought Reinhart's book and tried my first recipe last weekend - the focaccia (not the poolish version).  It turned out very well, though I had to adapt it a bit because I cannot find Instant Yeast here in Charlotte.  I used water at 120 degrees to proof and then added to the dry ingredients.  My only issue with the bread was it was too oily.  It did not absorb as much oil as the books suggested it would.

I want to make the Pain a l'Ancienne, but don't know how to convert the recipe to make up for my Active Dry yeast versus the Instant.  Do I still use ice cold water and "proof" before adding to the flour?  Or do I proof in warm water, chill it and then add to the dry ingredients?  Or, do I postpone this recipe until I can order instant yeast online?

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He gives the conversions in the beginning of the book -- I think you can find it if you look under "yeast". Are you sure you can't find instant yeast in Charlotte? I live in the very rural middle of nowhere and our big supermarkets all carry it. It is just the stuff labelled for bread machines.

[FoodMan]

yes, it is the one labled for bread machines or RapidRise. IF you really cannot find it then just proof the yeast is a little amount of warm water.

[FoodMan]

Here is a pan de campagne loaf I made this weekend. I made one big loaf with the whole recipe.

[tino27]

Looks like I'll be bumping this thread back to the top with a question about the ... you guessed it ... Potato & Rosemary bread.

My question is simple ... the mashed potatoes that you use in the recipe ... do they contain milk, butter, and salt like regular mashed potatoes? Or are they simply riced cooked potatoes?

I only ask because the baker's percentage for salt on the recipe is already 2.71% for the dough. I'm wondering if I actually used mashed potatoes that I made for dinner last night (which would obviously be seasoned), if that would then add too much salt.

So many of these breads look excellent. I'm hoping to add at least a couple more recipes to the collection.

[tino27]

Well, I guess I'll be answering my own question.

When I mashed my potatoes (peeled, cut up into cubes, boiled in water until tender -- added 1 tbsp of unsalted butter and enough milk to make them silky smooth), I didn't add any seasoning. This is how I added it to the recipe.

I'm not unhappy with how the Potato & Rosemary bread turned out, but I don't think I have the right crumb texture. And I think it's because I over-hydrated the dough slightly. I added the garlic at the end of the mixing process and the extra bit of oil/garlicy goodness was enough to make this dough feel about as wet as a Focaccia. And, in fact, if you check out the crumb photo here:

you can see what I mean. It's kind of a cross between Ciabatta and Focaccia. It's not the denser crumb that I saw posted earlier. My taste testers however, liked the airiness of the crumb, so I'll just have to wait and see.

Fortunately, I have enough mashed potato and roasted garlic that I'm going to try it again tonight and cut back on the hyrdration by about 5% and see what happens.

[duckduck]

Made the casatiello last night. Had been planning on doing this one for awhile so I was surprised to see Abra pop up with it while I was thinking about. Great minds think alike. I used Salumi regular salami with a nice Oregon smoked gouda. I did my mixing by hand and all the salami and cheese seemed to clump in spots, mostly in the center. I just kept working it since I could feel where the lumps were and evened it out. I did one big loaf (no photo, sorry) in the cake pan like the photo in the book and it turned out beautiful. Everyone at my book club loved it. Big hit!

Edited August 15, 2006 by duckduck (log)

[rickster]

I can't speak for this specific recipe, but some other potato bread recipes I've seen are pretty specific that the mashed potato should be plain, boiled, riced or mashed, without any additions. The added liquid in yours could contribute to the over hydration.

My question is simple ... the mashed potatoes that you use in the recipe ... do they contain milk, butter, and salt like regular mashed potatoes? Or are they simply riced cooked potatoes?

[alanamoana]

you can see what I mean. It's kind of a cross between Ciabatta and Focaccia. It's not the denser crumb that I saw posted earlier. My taste testers however, liked the airiness of the crumb, so I'll just have to wait and see.

Fortunately, I have enough mashed potato and roasted garlic that I'm going to try it again tonight and cut back on the hyrdration by about 5% and see what happens.

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actually tino27, i think that looks beautiful. unless you're specifically looking for a tighter crumb, i would be perfectly happy with that open and holey goodness. i think most people making artisan breads are looking for that exact appearance.

[tino27]

I can't speak for this specific recipe, but some other potato bread recipes I've seen are pretty specific that the mashed potato should be plain, boiled, riced or mashed, without any additions. The added liquid in yours could contribute to the over hydration.

I would generally agree with you on this except that PR talks about finally having a use for those left-over mashed potatoes from dinner the night before. Any liquid I added to make the potatoes smooth, I would've removed from the water portion in the dough. I do most of my recipes by look and feel. I think the problem was that the dough was the right consistency prior to me adding the garlic and the extra moisture content of the roasted garlic was what threw it into the "over-hydrated" category.

alanamoana -- I agree with you, and I very well may leave the recipe I have alone. But since I have the extra mashed potatoes and roasted garlic, in the name of Science, I figured it'd be cool to see the difference, if there is any.

Of the three boules I made last night, I've eaten/given away 2 1/2. I'll see if I can't wrangle a picture of 1/2 a loaf of the 1st sitting next to 1/2 a loaf the second. And hopefully, photography gods be willing, I can manage to get a good shot of the interior crumb.

[cajungirl]

I didn't go all the way through this thread, but the past two pages surely have made me hungry. Last weekend I made the Cheddar, Chive Potato bread and had to fight off my friends so that I could have some. I've made it before and its always wonderful. This weekend, I think I'll use the same basic dough, but instead of the cheddar and chives, it'll be caramelized onions and walnuts...what do you think?

[tino27]

I didn't go all the way through this thread, but the past two pages surely have made me hungry.  Last weekend I made the Cheddar, Chive Potato bread and had to fight off my friends so that I could have some.  I've made it before and its always wonderful.  This weekend, I think I'll use the same basic dough, but instead of the cheddar and chives, it'll be caramelized onions and walnuts...what do you think? 

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The only advice I have is to add the nuts at the end of the kneading process -- the sharp edges can prevent good gluten formation if you add them at the beginning.

[tino27]

This will prove to be a rather lengthy post with lots of pictures, so be patient and you will be rewarded with a lovely comparison photo at the end.

The only thing I did differently between Monday night's batch and last night's was to lower the hydration level by 5% -- which translated to 38g less water in the dough.

First, the mise en place.

All of the ingredients (except garlic & salt) in the mixing bowl. I made the starter in my mixing bowl and forgot to take a photo of it before dumping the ingredients in.

The dough, fully mixed and kneaded. I find it ironic that it looks like a big bowl of mashed potatoes.

The first fermentation took just over 90 minutes.

Even though the original recipe didn't call for it, I did a shorter, 2nd fermentation for about 45 minutes.

Boules shaped, proved, and ready to go into the oven. I decided not to slash any of the loaves because of how delicate the dough was.

The finished boules. I baked both batches at the same temperature and for the exact same length of time. The ones last night didn't get quite as browned on the outside -- although these were still nice and golden.

And, finally, the money shot. Monday's wetter batch is on the left and last night's dryer batch is on the right.

As you can see, the drier batch did rise a little higher and there really wasn't too much of a degradation in the hole structure. I think I actually prefer #2 as I got better volume in the finished bread and it was slightly easier to work with. Other than that, flavorwise, the breads were identical.

[cognitivefun]

has anyone tried the Pain L'Ancienne with all sourdough starter?

I suppose I'd activate some starter, and then mix it all up with the dough and ice cold water and then put it in the refrigerator overnight. Then I'd take it out, shape it and just let it proof.

The benefit would be the wonderful development of the natural sugars, and the flavor of the sourdough.

Before I try this, I thought I'd see if anybody else has tried it?

[cajungirl]

The only advice I have is to add the nuts at the end of the kneading process -- the sharp edges can prevent good gluten formation if you add them at the beginning.

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Thanks Tino, I'll keep that in mind, also, if you put walnuts in at the beginning, the bread becomes purple...

[duckduck]

After three loaves of the casatiello, I have cinnimon rolls waiting in the fridge to be baked when I get home tonight. My only concern is that they didn't puff up much and feel a little dense. I'm hoping they will soften and rise when I take them out and let them warm before I bake them. We'll see how they are after baking. I think I'll be moving on to rye breads next (to go with Extramsg's pastrami...yum!) if I can settle down and figure out which one I want to do first. So totally enjoying this book!

(Briefly thought about my own version of Julie & Julia. Pam & Peter? 52 breads in 52 weeks? A little too cheesy, I think. )

Edited August 23, 2006 by duckduck (log)

[duckduck]

I think I fuss too much. The cinnimon rolls turned out great. They look like they're not going to do much and then in the last half hour they poofed up great. I might cut the lemon extract in the icing a little bit, but other than that, they were terrific. On to Portugese sweet bread.

[cajungirl]

I think I fuss too much. The cinnimon rolls turned out great. They look like they're not going to do much and then in the last half hour they poofed up great. I might cut the lemon extract in the icing a little bit, but other than that, they were terrific. On to Portugese sweet bread.

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You go girl!

[FoodMan]

I am enjoying a ham sandwich made on the fabulouse marbled rye bread as I type. Great stuff and looks so impressive too.

BTW, about wet doughs, it's my experience with this book (although it is my favorite baking book and I learned most of what I know from it) that most recipes are a little wetter than they should be. That could be due to the humid weather I live it. So, I always cut the liquid by a little to start with and add more if I need to.

[duckduck]

Mine have been totally the opposite. I've been worried that they are a little bit dry when the recipe says they should be wet.

[tino27]

On to Portugese sweet bread.

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One thing that I discovered about this recipe and it's been true all three times I've made the dough is that not only is the water called for in the dough portion (not the sponge) of this recipe unnecessary, but I had to actually add about 1/4 cup more flour in order for the dough to come into a nice soft ball. That and the rising/proofing times listed in the recipe were WAY too short compared to what I experienced. That being said, this bread is DELICIOUS. Totally worth the effort and time.

[NYC Mike]

BTW, about wet doughs, it's my experience with this book (although it is my favorite baking book and I learned most of what I know from it) that most recipes are a little wetter than they should be. That could be due to the humid weather I live it. So, I always cut the liquid by a little to start with and add more if I need to.

I was just about to post asking about this! I have had the same issue, twice with sticky buns, the end dough was too wet to roll and shape, even after adding much more flour.

It is very humid where I am so I will try to cut the liquid up front and see how that works!

eta: the taste was amazing even if they didnt look pretty!

Thanks,

-Mike

Edited August 28, 2006 by NYC Mike (log)

[Velma]

I really like the Cranberry Walnut Celebration Bread from this book. I don't make a braid but instead make two boules.

[duckduck]

I ended up making the white bread variation 3 this weekend. Made one loaf, a couple knotted rolls, and some hamburger buns. A bit sweet even for my taste. Went good with peanut butter and jelly though.

[FoodMan]

I had a bunch of frozen bannanas to use up. See I never throw bananas away, I alwasy freeze them if they get too ripe to eat and use them in all kinds of stuff. I did need to use some after cleaning my freezer. So, I decided to make a yeasted banana bread and used the recipe for the Cinnamon Raisin Walnut bread as a base. I simply replaced all the liquid in the recipe with pureed banana. and came up with this sticky moist deliciouse breakfast treat

As you can see I did make the bread with the optional swirl inside. Next time around I would certainly not use sugar in the dough since the fruit is sweet enough.

[cognitivefun]

I made Anadama bread which came out very fluffy and wonderful. I used stone ground coarse cornmeal and it is a little gritty but fantastic taste.