Soy-ing confusion

[tamiam]

I am cooking a lot, trying to learn about Chinese and SE Asian cooking. My books refer to black soy and thin or light soy, as well as thick soy. I also have one called Bango Sweet Soy in the fridge that has palm sugar in it and is from Indonesia (oh, how sad things are there).

Does anyone know...Are thick soy, black soy, and sweet soy the same thing or are they different?

My Koon Chun thick soy lists "soy bean extract" and molasses as ingredients. This makes me wonder about making my own using soy and molasses.

I found an earlier thread about favorite soy sauces, but I still don't get this and appreciate any shared knowledge. Taking a moment to figure this out might save me from eating all the BBQ Pork before the significant other returns home. Marinated all night. Cooked till tender and delicious. Mmmmmm

[Ian]

Hi Tamian,

In most cookbooks:

thick soy sauce = dark soy sauce

thin soy sauce = light soy sauce

...but just to make life complicated, there's another thick soy sauce (containing molasses) which is mostly used as a colouring or in hotpots and casseroles.

The sweet soy sauce you have is another variant but it's mostly used in Indonesian cooking, not Chinese.

I would assume black soy sauce is dark soy sauce as dark soy sauce is normally black while light soy sauce is generally brown.

I hope this helps.

All the best,

[tamiam]

Thanks Ian. I have two books, Breath of a Wok and one by a neighbor who ran what she called a "peasant-style" Chinese restaurant for many years. Both have recipes that call for both soy and black soy.

I am guessing that soy refers to thin soy, which is the regular off-the-shelf variety that is widely available. Still confused as to black soy though.

[hzrt8w]

Does anyone know...Are thick soy, black soy, and sweet soy the same thing or are they different? 

My Koon Chun thick soy lists "soy bean extract" and molasses as ingredients.  This makes me wonder about making my own using soy and molasses.

←

Light soy = thin soy = 生抽 in Chinese

Dark soy = thick soy = 老抽 in Chinese (also known as 醬油)

If you look at the bottle of the soy sauce, you should be able to find the distinction.

Light sauce is used mostly when saltiness is called for, such as in Fried Rice, steamed fish (in general steamed seafood in Cantonese style). Dark sauce is used mostly when fragrance and rich taste of soy is called for, such as soy sauce chicken, braised fish with dark brown sauce, tea eggs, etc..

While my knowledge in the subject is extremely limited, I believe the difference between them is the process and the aging time. And I think dark soy is aged longer.

Do you really want to make your own soy sauce at home? It would be similar to brewing your own beer or wine at home. Yes you can do it but it's a lot of work. I hope you can tolerate the smell of fermentation of soy beans in your home...

[miaomee]

I am a Malaysian Chinese, the soy sauce we normally use, whether to make simple dippy like cut chillies or chilli padi, or simple marination of meat or seafood, or addy to taste when we found food not salty enough is the thin soy sauce (in Han Yu, we call jiang4 qin1 or sheng1 chou1)

There is a type of dark soy sauce, in Han Yu we pronounce as "lao3 chou1" that is much thicker and richer in flavour, that normally used to enhance the taste of a dish, the adding of lao chou will make the dish to look darker.

Another type of dark soy sauce, that we could "jiang4 you2" is thick and very dark, carries a special aroma, but not salty in taste (and doesn't taste sweet too) is commonly used to add dark colour to dishes.

If your dark soy sauce tasted sweet and was manufactured in Indonesia, it is very likely that you bought the one that is used for Indonesian dishes. My ex-house mate is Indonesian, her soy sauce is sweet in taste as you desbribed, she added lots of soy sauce to darker her soto ayam and claimed it was wonderful! :-P

this website has a little description of different type of soy sauce:

http://www.leekumkee.com

Select : Global / Products / Retail Product / Soy Sauce

They also provide a Soy Sauce Production Virtual Tour

I do not recommend attempts on making your own soy sauce as most of the soy sauce is very reasonable priced, but if your purpose of making own soy sauce is to have some fun as well as to gain some knowledge in the process of soy sauce making, please keep us updated on your progress :-)

Thanks.

Edited January 3, 2005 by miaomee (log)

[Ian]

Tamiam,

My guess is the black soy is probably the dark soy sauce. Can you tell me some of the recipes it's being used in? Is it being used alongside "Soy", "Thin soy" or "Light soy"?

"Breath of a wok" is excellent. You should also try to get a hold of Grace's first book, The wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen - it's great. I assume you've found her website at http://www.graceyoung.com/

I would love to know about your neighbor's book...

All the best,

Edited January 3, 2005 by Ian (log)

[jokhm]

This is a great topic...

I remember checking out a lot of Thai dishes that often required a dark soy sauce, a lighter one AND a thick sweet one. I'd love someone to break it all down further. In Beijing, the table soy sauce used for dumplings is always referred to as Jiang You... So I am not sure what's going on here exactly, as this was always quite dark and salty. Anyhow....

keep it coming

Joel

[Transparent]

I don't know too much about types of soy sauce, but typically, my family uses kikkoman most of the time. I actually like kikkoman for dipping, but the end result is very subtle. We typically don't use thin soy sauce, but we do use lou chou for coloring. I'm not sure about the fragrance or taste it imparts though, because its usually in fried rice that I taste it.

I'm a big fan of Grace Young. Breath of Wok and Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen are great compliments to each other.

[baconburner]

I don't know too much about types of soy sauce, but typically, my family uses kikkoman most of the time. I actually like kikkoman for dipping, but the end result is very subtle. We typically don't use thin soy sauce, but we do use lou chou for coloring. I'm not sure about the fragrance or taste it imparts though, because its usually in fried rice that I taste it.

I'm a big fan of Grace Young. Breath of Wok and Wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen are great compliments to each other.

←

Hi Transparent

I live in Vancouver with many Chinese/thai etc. restaurants. I found to my surprise that "light soy sauce" had more salt than regular!. Soy sauce is a bit like wine in that it is is brewed. I have Japanese students and Kikkomen seems to be the benchmark. There are still many other good varieties.

Cheers and Happy New Year

Baconburner

Only the lead dog view changes.

[miaomee]

Actually, the taste of soy sauce has been localised to suit the taste bud of locals. Therefore, if "authetic" in taste of a recipe you pursue is important to you, you should first research on the geographical origin of that particular recipe, and try to source the right soy sauce for that particular recipe. I believe it is more like a habitual taste preference

Edited January 4, 2005 by miaomee (log)

[tamiam]

Wow, what a bunch of great answers! The discussion of the light soys being for salty flavors and dark ones for soy flavors and good color really helps me.

"Breath of a wok" is excellent. You should also try to get a hold of Grace's first book, The wisdom of the Chinese Kitchen - it's great. I assume you've found her website at http://www.graceyoung.com/.  I would love to know about yout neighbors book

I actually scored both of her books at a used book store, on sale I am kind of working my way through them as a way to learn more. They also make great reads....really great sense of family and culture. My neighbor's book was self published so I doubt it is available anywhere. She had a small restaurant and cooking school called Six Persimmons in Coupeville, WA, though she retired many years ago. I grew up helping out there and eating her recipes. She has my favorite Jar Jian Mieng (sp??).

Oh..I didn't mean I wanted to brew soy sauce. I meant perhaps I could just blend my own thick soy from some mixture of soy and molasses. Sorry for being confusing in my post and thanks for all the sincere warnings. I will never ever stink up my house with fermenting vats of soy, I promise

By the way, fermented black beans are my new favorite ingredient. I always avoided black bean sauce dishes as being salty and boring. But when they are used in the right amount instead of overdone, they add such a earthy mysterious flavor.

[hzrt8w]

By the way, fermented black beans are my new favorite ingredient.  I always avoided black bean sauce dishes as being salty and boring.  But when they are used in the right amount instead of overdone, they add such a earthy mysterious flavor.

←

And don't forget the garlic! Black beans by themselves don't taste like much. But when cooked with garlic, it's wonderful. Also add a bit of ginger and sliced chili pepper too.

I found that often I need to add dark soy sauce to the dish cooked with black beans and garlic to bring out the soy flavor.

[tamiam]

By the way, fermented black beans are my new favorite ingredient.  I always avoided black bean sauce dishes as being salty and boring.  But when they are used in the right amount instead of overdone, they add such a earthy mysterious flavor.

←

And don't forget the garlic! Black beans by themselves don't taste like much. But when cooked with garlic, it's wonderful. Also add a bit of ginger and sliced chili pepper too.

I found that often I need to add dark soy sauce to the dish cooked with black beans and garlic to bring out the soy flavor.

←

Mmmmmmmmm!

[trillium]

Actually, the taste of soy sauce has been localised to suit the taste bud of locals. Therefore, if "authetic" in taste of a recipe you pursue is important to you, you should first research on the geographical origin of that particular recipe, and try to source the right soy sauce for that particular recipe. I believe it is more like a habitual taste preference

←

Did my partner pay you to say that? We have Chinese mushroom, light and dark soyas, kecap manis, Japanese light soya, Korean light soya, Thai light and mushroom soya and he was eyeing the Thai dark one at the store the other day...

They really do taste differently, though, so I make room in the pantry for all of them.

regards,

trillium

[jo-mel]

I found to my surprise that "light soy sauce" had more salt than regular!. Soy sauce is a bit like wine in that it is is brewed. I have Japanese students and Kikkomen seems to be the benchmark. There are still many other good varieties.

Cheers and Happy New Year

Baconburner

Only the lead dog view changes.

←

Don't forget that there is 'light' and 'lite'. The 'lite' usually is labeled meaning less sodium than regular soy. This 'lite' is a different kettle of fish from the regular 'light'.

The 'light' soy tastes saltier than the 'dark', as the dark often has molasses that balances out the salty taste. Checking labels often shows that the 'light' has more sodium than 'dark', but not always so. Sometimes the 'dark' has more sodium! One time I spent quite a while checking all the labels of the different soys, checking their salt content and there was no standard.

My favorite soy at the moment is "SAN -J" and their reduced sodium tamari.

[FoodMan]

This is an interesting thread. In Thompson's "Thai Food" he lists sweet soy sauce (Kecap Manis) as an ingredient in many recipes. Is that simple soy sauce that has been sweetened with molasses or otherwise?

Elie

[miaomee]

Edited January 6, 2005 by miaomee (log)