Grand Sichuan International

[Jason Perlow]

Went to the 51st and 9th Ave branch last night after seeing Adaptation (very good.) It was our backup restaurant after Hell's Kitchen where they had a 45 minute wait for a table. Grand Sichuan sat us immediately. Excellent smoked spare ribs. Chicken with Green Peppers was just spicy enough and the Braised Pork Belly with Chestnuts has to be one of the best Chinese dishes anywhere. We ordered the Sliced Beef in Chili Sauce and I asked the waiter to hold the heat down. He didn't take me seriously enough because what he came out with was a mouth scorcher even though ne told me he instructed the kitchen to go easy. So I sent it back with instructions to make the new one mildly spiced. Much to my surprise that actually worked and the resulting dish wa terrific. Add some Yang Chow Fried Rice and their great Dry Sauteed String Beans and the four of us were swimming in food. In fact the left over sliced beef and veggies made a great lunch today before going to see the Rangers get zotsed by the Bruins.

Interesting. Jhlurie, Rachel and myself went to the same GSI branch on Saturday and saw Adaptation at the AMC afterwards as well.

I have to say that while the other two dishes we ordered were very good, their "Freshly Killed No Long Time Refrigerated Kung Pao Chicken" was quite off that night. Cornstarch was used as a thickening agent for the sauce, making it somewhat gloppy -- and a finer dice than usual amplified that effect. Mostly brown meat was used for the chicken (its usually mostly white) as well as non-premium peanuts (a much smaller and inferior grade was used). And while it was there, it had far less taste of sichuan peppercorn than it usually does.

I brought this to the management's attention and they freaked out, offering to give it another try, insisting that nothing had changed (in fact, they did admit they lost one of their line chefs a few months ago but it wasnt their main prep chef) but we were already full and had to see the movie right after.

[Steve Plotnicki]

We went to the 7:30 showing and got to the restaurant at about 10:00. You?

[Jason Perlow]

We went to the 7:30 showing and got to the restaurant at about 10:00. You?

On Saturday we got to the restaurant around 7:30 and went to the 11pm show. Traffic sucked and no hope of a taxi so we walked the 10 or so blocks to the AMC. blech. We wanted to go to the 10pm show but it got sold out so we hung out and had green tea at the Yoshinoya across the street. The bastards at the AMC wouldnt let us hang in the cafe for an hour and a half.

I didn't like the movie, I felt it was a contrived peice of crap. Very disappointing compared to Malkovitch.

[Steve Plotnicki]

We walked as well and one of us was recovering from knee surgery and had one crutch to walk on but we still made it. I liked the movie but not as much as my wife who loved it. The people we went with are good friends with Susan Orlean so we heard about things from the inside perspective. And my wife and I know one of the actors in the film so we had lots to talk about. I liked it up until the resolution which I thought was too crazy. But in general I have an aversion to movies about making a movie or songs being about writing a song etc.. I always find them too industry specific. Too many inside jokes. But anyone who liked that movie should run out and rent the DVD of Day for Night which does a much better job with the genre.

[Pan]

BUT: does it strike you -- or anyone -- that "Grand Sichuan" is the "Empire Szechuan" of the 00's?

Perish the thought!

I'm still a regular at the Chelsea branch of Grand Sichuan, and its quality has never decreased, in my opinion. It's still salty and oily, but it's still delicious.

There are many dishes I like there. I happen to like the Dan Dan Noodles very much. I also like the Sichuan Shrimp Dumplings, with the great sesame paste and hot pepper-accented brown dipping sauce. And that's not to mention main dishes, of which the good ones are too numerous for me to feel like typing out right now. I generally stick to the Sichuan specialties.

[Pan]

Okay -- so maybe every Empire Szechuan in the city of New York is under the same ownership?  Their proliferation goes back to the 1970s.  I was simply implying that the phenomenon is not particularly recent, and that we have seen it before in the same exact style.

Empire Szechuan has never been a real Sichuan restaurant, and that includes the original branch at 97 St. and Broadway, 1 block away from the building where I grew up and my parents still live. They started or came in around the beginning of a trend of fake Sichuan (and Hunan - think Hunan Balcony one block up on 98 St.) restaurants run by people who were really Cantonese and weren't really doing real stuff, though Empire Szechuan was good at first, and we ate there a lot then.

The thing that's special about Grand Sichuan is that it's the first place where I had _real_ Sichuan food in New York - and that much of its food is not merely good but delicious and even special. They don't pander and don't adulterate; they just provide real stuff and leave "American Chinese" food on the menu, clearly labeled, for neighborhood residents who aren't comfortable with food that is firey, oily, and has "weird" ingredients like tripe, ox tongue, or bitter melon. And if you want a cheap lunch special, you can get ordinary American Chinese food like you'd pay the same amount for in another place, but you always have a much better choice.

[anil]

.... They don't pander and don't adulterate; they just provide real stuff and leave "American Chinese" food on the menu, clearly labeled, for neighborhood residents who aren't comfortable with food that is firey, oily, and ......

Watchout young man. Do not underestimate us neighborhood folks Welcome back Pan -

[Pan]

.... They don't pander and don't adulterate; they just provide real stuff and leave "American Chinese" food on the menu, clearly labeled, for neighborhood residents who aren't comfortable with food that is firey, oily, and ......

Watchout young man. Do not underestimate us neighborhood folks Welcome back Pan -

LOL!

Thanks, Anil.

[tommy]

i've been to the grand sichuan on 2nd and 56th about 6 times in the past 2 months. i've determined that the food is overly oily, and most, if not all, of the spicy dishes i've tasted at a lot of sichuan peppercorn. enough that i'm still tasting it 5 hours later. i'm beginning to think that it's not really all that good.

[marcus]

How real Grand Sichuan is, is a relative question. I have never been to Sichuan, but have eaten in well recommended Sichuanese restaurants in Hong Kong and Taipei and see very little correlation either in quality or format. In addition, Grand Sichuan is extraordinarily inconsistent, to take a page from Cabrales, even by my lower (very much lower) New York standards. I don't have any problem with spicing and oil when they are properly used and balanced, but I do with the overwhelming use of salt which goes beyond acceptability anyplace in the world with the possible exception of Korea. I think that the best basis of comparison is camphor duck, which can be tender moist and fragrant in a fine Sichuanese restaurant, but at Grand Sichuan, the duck can be stringy and the flavor has harsh edges showing a lack of subtlety in the smoking process. Also the Kung Pao chicken, ordered from the fresh chicken menu, should be called peanuts with chicken, rather than chicken with peanuts, as the quantity of peanuts was excessive to say the least. To be clear, I have eaten only at the 9th avenue restaurants in midtown and Chelsea, which I believe are interchangeable, based on which restaurant has the chef on any particular evening.

[Yaacov]

I adore Grand Sichuan (Chelsea) and have been many times, but I feel that, while I love everything I usually order, I need something new.

Here are my go-to dishes:

Pork soup dumplings (can't imagine not getting these)

Wonton in hot chili oil

Twice cooked pork in sweet bean sauce

Fresh and dried green beans with chicken

Prawns in garlic sauce

Whole fish with bean paste

I don't always order all of these, but usually 3-4 figure into the meal.

I need to know some of the other winners on the menu.

thanks,

yb

[Sandra Levine]

Smoked tea duck and a cold appetizer of tongue and tripe were the high points of a meal there the other day.

Edit: oops, I see you specified Chelsea. The dishes above were eaten in the mid-town restaurant.

Edited February 28, 2003 by Sandra Levine (log)

[g.johnson]

Both are availaible in Chelsea too. I can't remember the exact name, but there's a beef in oil and chili dish that's very good but not for the faint of heart.

[Pan]

Here are some of my favorite dishes at Grand Sichuan Chelsea:

Dan Dan Noodles

Sichuan-style shrimp dumplings (in a soy/sesame paste/hot oil sauce)

Jellyfish with Chives Oil (cold dish)

Chicken with Garlic Paste (cold dish)

The cold cucumber dish

the 2nd dish in the Dishes for a Prodigal Daughter menu, which is a cold dish with celery and other vegetables

Squid with Kung Bao Sauce

Duck with Bitter Melon

Aui Zhou Chicken (delicious, very spicy, but a bit too salty; I like it anyway)

Shrimp with Sichuan Sauce

Prawn with Garlic Sauce (we both like that one)

Any whole fish dish (I like 'em all)

Country-style Tofu (with meat)

The Hunanese squid dish

If I were looking at the menu, I could find more dishes for you, but that'll give you some more to pick from.

I don't recommend the sea cucumber dish because the sea cucumber has the consistency of rubber, and the Chicken with Chinese Broccoli is just over-the-top salty. Otherwise, you should do well, for the most part.

[Pan]

Both are availaible in Chelsea too. I can't remember the exact name, but there's a beef in oil and chili dish that's very good but not for the faint of heart.

Yes, there are a number of cold dishes with hot oil. Tongue, tripe, thin-sliced beef, and conch are available. Those dishes are delicious, though really oily and salty (I don't object to the spiciness and like it). The fresh cilantro on top of them is a nice touch.

[Pan]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I really can't recommend the cold vegetable dishes listed in the "Cold Dishes" section of the menu, because stuff like the spicy Sichuan pickled vegetables are just way oversalted. YMMV

[yvonne johnson]

G. and I had a very good dinner with Sandra and ranitidine the other night at the 9th/51 st branch and the dishes g and I are used to at the Chelsea location (after around half-dozen times) were equally as good as, if not indistinguishable from, those at Chelsea--smoked tea duck main and the oxtail-tripe app (really good). The king pao at both places leaves me a little lukewarm. Service at 50th St (on basis of one visit) is, despite the plusher decor, a bit impatient and surly in comparison with Chelsea. The dish I really like at the Chelsea loc is the beef with chilies (from the front of menu--order it if you like hot food).

Here's a long thread on GS with good recs

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?act=ST...t=3921&st=0&hl=

Edited March 1, 2003 by yvonne johnson (log)

[SobaAddict70]

The pork with chestnuts and the pumpkin are two of my favorites for GSI.

At GSC, its the minced pork with sour string beans and chiles, as well as the Green Parrot dish (can't remember the name) that number among my faves there.

SA

[ranitidine]

At 9th and 51st, the scallops in white wine sauce are delicious also.

[Pan]

Oh, I forgot to mention that I really can't recommend the cold vegetable dishes listed in the "Cold Dishes" section of the menu, because stuff like the spicy Sichuan pickled vegetables are just way oversalted. YMMV

Except for the cucumber dish I recommended further up in the thread, of course.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I'm not going to get this name right but, the dish I love is Red Pork Belly (extra fatty) cooked with chestnuts. It is phenomenol. The Sliced Beef in Chilli Sauce is good as well.

[SobaAddict70]

I'm not going to get this name right but, the dish I love is Red Pork Belly (extra fatty) cooked with chestnuts. It is phenomenol.

No, you've got it right. The first time I had this, I thought I had died and gone to Chinese restaurant heaven.

....

Just kidding. But it was this shy of amazing.

SA

[yvonne johnson]

The Sliced Beef in Chilli Sauce is good as well.

Yes, that dish is the one I go for. Greasy as hell but I think it's tremendous.

Red stewed pork is pretty good too.

Around the time of Chinese New Year they serve a sausage and lotus root ( a very pretty thing in the shape of a star) dish which is fab.

[Yaacov]

Thanks for all the recos!

Here's what we had last night (I went before reading most of these dishes though).

Pork Soup Dumplings

Shrimp Dumplings (I'm pretty sure this was the one recommended by someone above -- loved the sauce)

Cold Spinach in Garlic Sauce (I just asked the waitress to recommend a cold veggie and this was it. Great, refreshing, and unique presentation. This was very evocative of something I've had during a Passover seder, so there must be some horseradish in the sauce somethere. Very cool)

Prawns in Sichuan sauce (always great and i love those silky thin mushrooms)

Azhou Chicken (asked for this to be mild spicy and it was perfect. Just the right amount of heat. I can understand the remark above about the salt content -- a bit high -- but it worked well. I wouldn't call it salty)

Sliced Beef Tenderloin in Brown Sauce w/ Bok Choy (really good. silky smooth beef and the bok choy was excellent)

FWIW, we brought 2001 Dr. Loosen Urz. Wurz. Spatlese and 2001 Christoffel Erd. Trep. Spatlese. Both were decanted for 2+ hours and were great. Both wines exhibited the massive fruit and extract of the vintage along with tropical fruits. The Christoffel was more closed on the nose, but was still excellent. I'd expect the Loosen to be ready first. These are babies and need some serious cellar time, but both are world-class wines.

best,

yb

[Pan]

We don't celebrate Easter, but Grand Sichuan's Midtown location was my parents' choice of a place to have a last lunch as a family (for now, of course) before my brother went back to SF. My brother was skeptical. He said he had previously eaten at that branch of Grand Sichuan, didn't remember what he ate, but wasn't thrilled with it. I persuaded him to give it another chance, telling him that I knew the menu very well and could order for him. Actually, the menu of that branch is slightly different from the menu of the Chelsea branch, which I go to much more often. A few dishes that are served on 24th St. aren't on the Midtown menu, and a bunch of dishes on the 50th-St. menu aren't at the Chelsea location. But the overlap has to be close to 90%.

I ordered Cucumber with Garlic, a favorite cold dish of mine, and agreed with my brother's suggestion of the first dish among the dishes for a Prodigal Daughter, a cold dish of spinach with crushed bits of ginger. For hot dishes, I ordered Aui Zhou Chicken from the fresh-killed chicken menu, and Sichuan-style soft-shell crabs were ordered at the suggestion of my mother. Ultimately, it was determined that we could use another dish. My father wanted lotus root but wasn't sure if it was in season, so he asked whether it was available. It was. We were given the option of sliced or shredded, and shredded was chosen. Since the Aui Zhou Chicken and Sichuan-style soft-shell crabs were both quite peppery, a non-spicy lotus root dish was requested.

Everyone liked all the dishes that were ordered. The cucumber and the chicken were particularly appreciated, but the lotus root was judged by my brother, at least, as the best dish of all. It came in small lengthwise slices, and was cooked in a chicken broth-based sauce.

Ultimately, I thought the soft-shell crabs were the least interesting dish, yet they were good, too.

My brother had one slight criticism: He found everything except the lotus root dish a little sweetened. But he liked the food anyway, as did we all.

The restaurant was almost empty from 2 to 4 P.M. on Easter Sunday. Our server complained that there was much more business at the Chelsea location, and implied that the Clinton location might have to close, but I think that his main point was that he wanted a good tip.

Anyway, to sum up: The lunch was excellent. Based on our lunch, the 50th-St. location of Grand Sichuan hasn't slipped. (As for the Chelsea location, I had a late lunch there by myself today and eat there often enough to know that it has not slipped, but perhaps the uptown location is a bit better.)