Grand Sichuan International

[g.johnson]

some of the mystery of the grand sichuans is addressed into today's NYT.  

please to click

apparently, they can't figure out the deal either.  one thing seems for sure, however.  just as has been suggested here, the one in clinton is *the* one to go to.

How so? The Chelsea one has the same owner and same ex-chef.

[tommy]

some of the mystery of the grand sichuans is addressed into today's NYT.  

please to click

apparently, they can't figure out the deal either.  one thing seems for sure, however.  just as has been suggested here, the one in clinton is *the* one to go to.

How so? The Chelsea one has the same owner and same ex-chef.

i'm just telling you what i've been told.

out of curiosity, why would the fact that they share the same ex-chef suggest that they are equal at this point?

[g.johnson]

i'm just telling you what i've been told.

out of curiosity, why would the fact that they share the same ex-chef suggest that they are equal at this point?  

Fair enough. I thought you meant that the article said the Clinton branch was the original or something.

I was thinking that if the same ex-chef would have bequeathed his recipes to both places they should be pretty similar contingent, of course, on the execution of the current staff.

[tommy]

I was thinking that if the same ex-chef would have bequeathed his recipes to both places they should be pretty similar contingent, of course, on the execution of the current staff.

yes of course.

all i know is that when i tried to get an answer out of egullet as to which one was the best and if the one on 2nd ave was as good as the one on 9th and what about the one on 32nd, i was given the dismissive answer of "just go to the 9th ave branch." the times seems to agree.

[g.johnson]

There are two 9th avenue branches and opinion seems divided on their relative merits. I've only eaten at the Chelsea location (which I love) so I can't compare.

[jhlurie]

There are two 9th avenue branches and opinion seems divided on their relative merits. I've only eaten at the Chelsea location (which I love) so I can't compare.

And I've only eaten at the Second Avenue (not impressive) and Clinton locations (very impressive), so I can't comment on the Chelsea one, Chinatown or Lex Ave.

Actually, Mr. Asimov's article does clear up a few things, but you have to read closely. And it still leaves a pretty big mystery intact on who actually has day-to-day control of the two locations that people seem to like the most--the Clinton and Chelsea locales.

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Chinatown - "In the time-honored fashion, Mr. Zhang split with Liu Hu Shen, his partner in the Chinatown restaurant, after a dispute". So this Liu Hu Shen is controlling that one.

Second Ave - "each moved to open his own place, Mr. Zhang's on Second Avenue". So Mr. Zhang has this one.

Lex Ave - "and Mr. Lee's on Lexington." Mr. Lee this one.

Clinton - ??? No quote about who currently "runs" it, other than the fact that like the Chelsea location, both Lee and Zhang still own a part of it. But who makes the decisions, who cooks the food, etc.?

Chelsea - ??? ditto to above. Who actually RUNS it now?

Mystery NOT solved. And the following quote cracks me up on so many levels:

The problems with Mr. Lee, he said, stemmed from their differing approaches to sauces.

[g.johnson]

I think it's pretty clear that Zhang, the original owner, has control

[Mr. Zhang] opened Grand Sichuan International on Ninth Avenue in Chelsea with his chef, Quan Jun Lee. They prospered and opened another Grand Sichuan International on Ninth Avenue in Clinton.

Such is prosperity that it was not long before Mr. Zhang and Mr. Lee fell out. Locked together in partnership on the Ninth Avenue restaurants, each moved to open his own place, Mr. Zhang's on Second Avenue, and Mr. Lee's on Lexington. Not surprisingly, Mr. Zhang, who speaks more English than his partners, hasn't many nice words to say about them.

The problems with Mr. Lee, he said, stemmed from their differing approaches to sauces.

His new chef on Second Avenue, he says, is a lot more agreeable.

My emphasis.

[Suzanne F]

...does it strike you -- or anyone -- that "Grand Sichuan" is the "Empire Szechuan" of the 00's?  Remember how they started off with just one, then another, then a zillion that may or may not have been related?  And each time there were more, it seemed the total quality remained the same, and just got spread thinner and thinner?  I'm getting déja vu all over.  

Ahem. AHEM. AHEM.

And Asimov is too young, in this case.

tommy posted on Oct 23 2002, 08:52 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

some of the mystery of the grand sichuans is addressed into today's NYT.

...

apparently, they can't figure out the deal either. one thing seems for sure, however. just as has been suggested here, the one in clinton is *the* one to go to.

[LaNiña]

And Asimov is too young, in this case.

That's silly. Asimov ain't no dummy. His age doesn't have anything to do with it - I'm sure he did/does his research.

[Suzanne F]

And Asimov is too young, in this case.

That's silly. Asimov ain't no dummy. His age doesn't have anything to do with it - I'm sure he did/does his research.

Okay -- so maybe every Empire Szechuan in the city of New York is under the same ownership? Their proliferation goes back to the 1970s. I was simply implying that the phenomenon is not particularly recent, and that we have seen it before in the same exact style.

[LaNiña]

Fine, but don't assume Asimov is unaware of it, that's all I'm saying.

[g.johnson]

Asimov also writes about Ray's pizza, Fresco Tortillas and Evergreen Shanghai so he's not suggesting this is a recent phenomenon.

[Suzanne F]

Fine, but don't assume Asimov is unaware of it, that's all I'm saying.

I didn't, and if you can show that I did, more power to you. I just thought it odd that he mentioned instances from a mere 10 years ago (Fresco Tortilla) rather than pointed out that this has been going on with the exact same sort of place for at least 25 years.

[LaNiña]

Okay, it's not important. Chill.

[Orik]

And I've only eaten at the Second Avenue (not impressive) and Clinton locations (very impressive), so I can't comment on the Chelsea one, Chinatown or Lex Ave.

We've dined at the Lexington branch several times now. It is better than the one on 2nd ave but not quite as good as the clinton branch (we hardly ever get a chance to go to the one in chelsea). The 'sushi bar' at Lex does not seem to be making any kind of progress (or maybe it is undergoing VERY slow and subtle changes at the molecular level) and judging by the average number of tables we've seen occupied, the place could very well close before the sushi bar opens.

[Suzanne F]

Okay, it's not important.

Damn right.

[jhlurie]

I think it's pretty clear that Zhang, the original owner, has control

His new chef on Second Avenue, he says, is a lot more agreeable.

My emphasis.

His new chef on SECOND Avenue. SECOND Avenue. Not NINTH Avenue. He opened a new place on SECOND, and this quote resolves nothing about either NINTH Avenue location.

[Rachel Perlow]

I've only ever been to the location on 9th near 50th (is that Clinton?). It is very very good. I have no intention of ever going to any of the others unless the quality drops at that location.

[g.johnson]

His new chef on SECOND Avenue.  SECOND Avenue.  Not NINTH Avenue.  He opened a new place on SECOND, and this quote resolves nothing about either NINTH Avenue location.

Quite right. I misread it.

[tommy]

i made it to the grand sichuan on 2nd and 56th.

small place.

dan dan noodle was pretty darned spicy, but i thought they went overboard on the szechuan peppercorns. they were overwhelming. additionally, the noodles were swimming in oil. too much for my taste.

ox tongue and tripe was spicy as well. in fact, i could hardly taste it after the dan dan noodle. but it from what i did taste, it was a nice version.

beef with mungbean noodle - this dish consisted of chunks of braised beef with cubes of "noodle." it was unlike any dish i've had. for one, i'm not used to too many braised dishes in chinese cooking. and the noodle product was quite interesting, if not a little challenging to eat with chopsticks.

calamari in green tea was tasty as well. the calamari were not overcooked, and there was plenty of it. served with what i assumed to be fresh bamboo. at the very least, it wasn't the shoestring bamboo that you would normally get.

the wine list was a real winner for a chinese place: they actually offered a pinot gris from oregon, a pinot gris/xxxxx blend from california, an italian pinot grigio, and perhaps 2 other whites (i didn't notice the reds).

the clientelle seemed much more "foodie-esque" than you'd usually find at a midtown chinese place during lunch. we briefly discussed dishes and wines with at least 2 other tables during our lunch. and one group of wine nerds brought their own. my guess was that they were in for the winexpo. not that that matters. just, you know, i'm just sayin'.

i'd definitely go back, but of course, i'm still looking forward to trying the one in clinton. (that "fresh" chicken has got my interest piqued)

[Fat Guy]

World Famous Original Ray's Grand Evergreen Fresco Sichuan Shanghai Tortilla Grill of Greenwich Village II.

[anil]

This Wednersday we walked over to our neighborhood GSI, not having read that day's Dining section, I was amazed at the crowd -- only to come back home and read the controversy about GSI

[rstarobi]

Went to GS East (56th & 2nd) yesterday for lunch. It was pretty unappealing, relative to the Hell's Kitchen branch (only other one I've been to). The service was lackadaisical (no napkins for 1/2 the meal) and the food was bland. I ordered the shredded pork with garlic sauce, which tasted of szechuan peppers, but had no other flavors at all. No pork, garlic, ginger, anything. My girlfriend had the beef with broccoli which was up to the standards of a neighborhood joint, but not exceptional.

Definitely not a chip off the old block if this one *is* derived from the Hell's Kitchen branch.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Went to the 51st and 9th Ave branch last night after seeing Adaptation (very good.) It was our backup restaurant after Hell's Kitchen where they had a 45 minute wait for a table. Grand Sichuan sat us immediately. Excellent smoked spare ribs. Chicken with Green Peppers was just spicy enough and the Braised Pork Belly with Chestnuts has to be one of the best Chinese dishes anywhere. We ordered the Sliced Beef in Chili Sauce and I asked the waiter to hold the heat down. He didn't take me seriously enough because what he came out with was a mouth scorcher even though ne told me he instructed the kitchen to go easy. So I sent it back with instructions to make the new one mildly spiced. Much to my surprise that actually worked and the resulting dish wa terrific. Add some Yang Chow Fried Rice and their great Dry Sauteed String Beans and the four of us were swimming in food. In fact the left over sliced beef and veggies made a great lunch today before going to see the Rangers get zotsed by the Bruins.

[stefanyb]

Went to the 51st and 9th Ave branch last night after seeing Adaptation (very good.) It was our backup restaurant after Hell's Kitchen where they had a 45 minute wait for a table. Grand Sichuan sat us immediately. Excellent smoked spare ribs. Chicken with Green Peppers was just spicy enough and the Braised Pork Belly with Chestnuts has to be one of the best Chinese dishes anywhere. We ordered the Sliced Beef in Chili Sauce and I asked the waiter to hold the heat down. He didn't take me seriously enough because what he came out with was a mouth scorcher even though ne told me he instructed the kitchen to go easy. So I sent it back with instructions to make the new one mildly spiced. Much to my surprise that actually worked and the resulting dish wa terrific. Add some Yang Chow Fried Rice and their great Dry Sauteed String Beans and the four of us were swimming in food. In fact the left over sliced beef and veggies made a great lunch today before going to see the Rangers get zotsed by the Bruins.

I really love those dry sauteed string beans. Also, believe it or not, the string beans in garlic sauce are even better than you'd think possible.

The 24st street and 9th Avenue branch delivers to my apartment. The food comes in terrific containers and retains a lot of its just wokked characteristics and they're quick, too. Thats definitely going to be my downfall.

Edited December 9, 2002 by stefanyb (log)