What's missing?

[rlibkind]

The Belgian food thread got me thinking: although Philadelphia offers a wide variety of cuisines, some important and/or interesting cuisines are missing.

As I observed about Belgian, food, there's not much around once you get past mussels, beer and frites.

And there's been a total absence of Scandinavian fare (Washington Square, even before Samuelsson's departure, hardly counts) since Tivoli disappeared.

(Could it be a mere coincidence that the owners of the two restaurants that best exemplified these two different cuisines, Cuvee Notre Dame and Tivoli, up and left unannounced, virtually overnight,to their respective landlord's consternation?)

What important cuisines do you think are missing from our local dining palette?

[mrbigjas]

south indian vegetarian cuisine is missing. like they serve at madras cafe in new york.

[xtian]

An excellent Spanish (not Latin, but Spanish) restaurant. I would especially love to see one that serves up authentic tapas, such as Jaleo in DC.

[MarketStEl]

Steakhouses we've got, I realize, but Argentinian ones, I believe, are lacking. (And not only in Philadelphia.)

I've not been down there, but friends of mine have, and they were impressed by the steakhouse culture of that country.

And while we're in South America: Are there any Brazilian restaurants here? I have this vague recollection that there once was one.

[marinade]

Sicilian!

[rlibkind]

Sicilian!

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I'm unfamiliar with Sicilian cuisine (since I won't swear what we called Sicilian pizza in North Jersey was truly Sicilian). So, what are is distinguishing characterisitics? Does it have some Greek roots?

[xtian]

Steakhouses we've got, I realize, but Argentinian ones, I believe, are lacking.  (And not only in Philadelphia.)

I've not been down there, but friends of mine have, and they were impressed by the steakhouse culture of that country.

And while we're in South America:  Are there any Brazilian restaurants here?  I have this vague recollection that there once was one.

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For Argentinian, Noche just opened near Rittenhouse... I haven't tried it yet, but am anxious to do so. It is an Avrim Hornik joint, so not sure what the food quality will be?... I suspect there will be more emphasis on the bar than the kitchen.

For Brazilian, there is Samba on Girard Street, which offers great churrascaria, and also Brasils in Old City. Nothing here, which compares to real Brazilian food, but I'll settle for as close as I can get!

[marinade]

Sicilian cuisine combines elements of Greek, Spanish and North Africa as well as the “boot”. Now that description is pretty simplistic. Think seafood, game, and grains tossed around anchovies, citrus, olives, capers, mint, saffron, chilies, garlic, dried fruits, chocolate, wine and honey. I had stumbled on a recipe a while back that called for boar with a savory chocolate-sour cherry sauce, which I think I tried it with wild turkey (not the whiskey). There are cuisines from the Italian islands like Sicily, Sardinia, Capri and Ischia, and the Aolians that I’d love to taste in the area.

[Rich Pawlak]

We ARE missing a good Sicilian restaurant, aren't we? And I'd surely like to see more Portuguese and Spanish places, as well as more rodizio than just at Samba. Don't thin k Brasil does it anymore.

[davidbdesilva]

I agree a Sicilian restaurant would be great. There even hard to find in NYC (authetic that is). Sicilian food is fantastic in it's delicious simplicity and freshness. Very fresh ingredients that combine unique flavors and produce hearty fare. The best of Italian, Spanish and North African fare combined (I don't see that much Greek to be honest).

I think the biggest shame is that Philadelphia really doesn't have a true French bistro, I mean something like Le Gigot or Balthazar in NYC. I've never been to Caribou Cafe but it looks a bit too commercial for a true bistro. We had Tartin and that closed, we had Le Jardin and that's been all screwed up, how come we can't get a real French bistro in a city like this?

[Capaneus]

As long as we are looking for "good", rather than just what's absent, I wish we could get a decent pad thai somewhere in town...

There *is* authentic Portuguese food in the Northeast. Not good, mind you, but authentic. Like the stuff I'd get at the home of my one aunt who cannot cook too well.

And yeah, Pif doesn't do it for me as a bistro, nor does Caribou. Perrier once swore up and down that Brasserie Perrier really *would* be a brasserie... Which we also still don't have, bistros aside.

Edited December 20, 2004 by Capaneus (log)

[mrbigjas]

we had Le Jardin and that's been all screwed up

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oops, accidentally posted without saying anything.

anyway, what happened there? what's screwed up? have i completely missed some local restaurant gossip?

Edited December 20, 2004 by mrbigjas (log)

[Capaneus]

we had Le Jardin and that's been all screwed up

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oops, accidentally posted without saying anything.

anyway, what happened there? what's screwed up? have i completely missed some local restaurant gossip?

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Sure did. The owner apparently was put off by the "too fancy" menu, or some such, so there was a parting of the ways - the chef and some of the crew departing, and the owner (who also runs La Boheme) taking over the skillets. The menu has apparently been dumbed down, though I haven't seen any specifics.

Edited December 20, 2004 by Capaneus (log)

[Andrew Fenton]

As long as we are looking for "good", rather than just what's absent, I wish we could get a decent pad thai somewhere in town...

First: welcome, Capaneus! (I like your handle: are you part of the Seven against Philadelphia?)

I'd partially agree: I'd like a really good Thai restaurant, that does more than just pad thai. My feeling is that pad thai is like pizza: you can get decent stuff just about anywhere. And there are a bunch of okay Thai joints (the eponymous Pad Thai is about the best IMO, and Vientiane-- whether it's Thai or something else-- is good too); nothing outstanding, though. But I haven't seen anything that's close to what you can get in, say, Seattle.

Moving on, I can swear we had a thread like this a while back. I'll repeat what I said then: I'd love a good Carolina-style barbecue place. I'll second the sad lack of Spanish restaurants as well.

[Andrew Fenton]

Okay, here's the bonus follow-up question:

How bad do you want it? What would you be willing to lose in exchange for your desired restaurant? Bonus points for the biggest sacrifice.

[mrbigjas]

we had Le Jardin and that's been all screwed up

←

oops, accidentally posted without saying anything.

anyway, what happened there? what's screwed up? have i completely missed some local restaurant gossip?

←

Sure did. The owner apparently was put off by the "too fancy" menu, or some such, so there was a parting of the ways - the chef and some of the crew departing, and the owner (who also runs La Boheme) taking over the skillets. The menu has apparently been dumbed down, though I haven't seen any specifics.

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d'oh.

i like la boheme, though. i've eaten there twice and enjoyed it both times.

anyway, to answer andrew's question: i would happily give up not one, not two, but the next three new stephen starr restaurants, whatever they are, in order to have a decent french bistro* and/or a south indian place.

*i haven't been back to caribou in probably five years and wasn't that impressed that time; i suspect my opinion might change if i went back now, for the sole reason that i'm a lot more familiar with the cuisine, and like it.

[Sfuffy]

An excellent Spanish (not Latin, but Spanish) restaurant.  I would especially love to see one that serves up authentic tapas, such as Jaleo in DC.

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While not having quite the extensive array of tapas of Jaleo, Mallorca on South Street has tapas that's comparable to what I've eaten in Spain (albeit, at 3 times the price )

[Rich Pawlak]

I agree a Sicilian restaurant would be great. There even hard to find in NYC (authetic that is). Sicilian food is fantastic in it's delicious simplicity and freshness. Very fresh ingredients that combine unique flavors and produce hearty fare. The best of Italian, Spanish and North African fare combined (I don't see that much Greek to be honest).

I think the biggest shame is that Philadelphia really doesn't have a true French bistro, I mean something like Le Gigot or Balthazar in NYC. I've never been to Caribou Cafe but it looks a bit too commercial for a true bistro. We had Tartin and that closed, we had Le Jardin and that's been all screwed up, how come we can't get a real French bistro in a city like this?

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Caribou Cafe is worth the visit, Dave, it really is. Great vibe, beers, wines AND food. Never had a bad meal there.

[davidbdesilva]

Thats great to know Rich, we'll definitely have to give it a try. I think the location was making me shy away, don't know why. There's nothing quite like great French bistro cooking, except great homemade Sicilian cooking!

[xtian]

Okay, here's the bonus follow-up question:

How bad do you want it?  What would you be willing to lose in exchange for your desired restaurant?  Bonus points for the biggest sacrifice.

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I'd give up all the red-gravy joints in town for one truly excellent Central Grocery-style muffaletta. (But then again, I might lose my excuse to make an annual pilgrimmage to N'awlins!)

I know I am getting off point here, but I have to say that I would love to be able to head downtown and get a really good conch fritter with key lime mustard or a piping hot beignet with chicory coffee, but I doubt they would really taste as good if I wasn't staring at a Key West sunset or the muddy Mississip while chowing down... same way that a cheesesteak wouldn't taste right if the counterperson was super-polite and friendly when I ordered it.

[Andrew Fenton]

I'd give up all the red-gravy joints in town for one truly excellent Central Grocery-style muffaletta.  (But then again, I might lose my excuse to make an annual pilgrimmage to N'awlins!)

Ooh, yeah. Throw in somewhere where I can get me a good debris sandwich, and you've got a deal!

I had a muffaletta at Nodding Head the other night. It was pretty good, mind you, but not much like what you'd get in NOLA.

[Capaneus]

As long as we are looking for "good", rather than just what's absent, I wish we could get a decent pad thai somewhere in town...

First: welcome, Capaneus! (I like your handle: are you part of the Seven against Philadelphia?)

I'd partially agree: I'd like a really good Thai restaurant, that does more than just pad thai. My feeling is that pad thai is like pizza: you can get decent stuff just about anywhere. And there are a bunch of okay Thai joints (the eponymous Pad Thai is about the best IMO, and Vientiane-- whether it's Thai or something else-- is good too); nothing outstanding, though. But I haven't seen anything that's close to what you can get in, say, Seattle.

Moving on, I can swear we had a thread like this a while back. I'll repeat what I said then: I'd love a good Carolina-style barbecue place. I'll second the sad lack of Spanish restaurants as well.

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Thank you for the welcome. My intro to Capaneus was actually from Dante, via Blake's woodcut. Something about a pain-in-the-neck strapped to a rock and getting zapped every time he refuses to cry "uncle" resonated.

And pad thai like pizza... I haven't really found good pizza in Philly either. Or not good pizza in the style I prefer: thick crust usw. Pad Thai - the restaurant - has never done it for me. Their stuff is pretty bland (not just heat-wise. All the flavoring seems to be muted, to my palate), and they offer nothing decent to drink. Pet peeve, that: how hard is it to offer *one* good beer or decent cheap wine? Yet most places can't carry the feat off.

As to the sacrifice... I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up much. After all, NY is a couple of hours away. And I notice everyone else only seems willing to give up stuff they *don't* much like, so I feel I'm in good company.

[Andrew Fenton]

Thank you for the welcome. My intro to Capaneus was actually from Dante, via Blake's woodcut. Something about a pain-in-the-neck strapped to a rock and getting zapped every time he refuses to cry "uncle" resonated.

That's the same guy. He's chock full of blaspheme-y goodness!

And pad thai like pizza... I haven't really found good pizza in Philly either. Or not good pizza in the style I prefer: thick crust usw.

Mmm, that's true that Philly pizza-- at least the good stuff-- is thin crust. So if you don't like that style, you're outta luck: try Chicago, I guess. Or maybe the bakery pizzas (Sarcone's tomato pie, for instance), which have a thicker crust.

[mrbigjas]

And pad thai like pizza... I haven't really found good pizza in Philly either. Or not good pizza in the style I prefer: thick crust usw.

Mmm, that's true that Philly pizza-- at least the good stuff-- is thin crust. So if you don't like that style, you're outta luck: try Chicago, I guess. Or maybe the bakery pizzas (Sarcone's tomato pie, for instance), which have a thicker crust.

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capaneus, what do you mean by 'usw?'

also, i agree with andrew: try sarcone's on 9th below fitzwater, or cacia's at 15th & ritner. i don't know if you'll like it or not, or if it's what you're looking for, but it's not thin crust (and you might like the stuff anyway, even if it's not what you're looking for, because it's good).

Edited December 22, 2004 by mrbigjas (log)

[stephenc]

Italian, bar food, cheesesteaks

haha, just kidding.

Japanese noodle house

Decent Thai

Decent Indian, unlike some previous posters, I'd really like some decent North Indian

Tapas

Spanish

Tex-mex

Lebanese

Mongolian BBQ

Carolina-style BBQ

If anyone knows anywhere that serves this stuff, lemme know.