Coffee and Tea

[Carolyn Tillie]

I know purists that will roast their coffee beans immediately prior to grinding their cup of coffee and drinking it immediately. If a shot of pulled espresso sits around at a Starbucks for more than 30 seconds or a minute, it gets dumped.

However, I have a brother-in-law who will walk into my house and if there is cold coffee still sitting in my pot and there are no moldy floaties on top, he'll drink it.

As I write this, I'm still sipping on a latte that Shawn made for me when I left for work this morning. He pulled the shots at 7:15 a.m. and it is now 1:30 p.m.

I consistently make an entire pot of tea and re-heat cups out of it for a day or so afterwards, despite the fact that I PREFER it fresh, just having it made and ready to heat is often easier on a busy morning.

What about you? How old is too old for you?

[phaelon56]

What about you? How old is too old for you?

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Coffee brewed directly into an airpot or brewed and then poured directly into a pre-heated thermal carafe: no more than twenty minutes is ideal. After that I notice a perceptible change in flavor but I'll drink it up until it gets too cool to be drinkable. I do find that coffee which has started coolign off seems much tastier black than it does when cream has been added.

Espresso shots: if drinking it as a straight shot it should be served and comsumed immediatley (i.e. served withing 20 seconds of the shot being pulled and sipped over no more than a coupel of minutes before the crema dies off). If it's going itno a properly made milk drink and that drink is in a preheated thick walled china cup or a thermal stainless steel cup... it can stay drinkable enough for me to enjoy for up to 20 minutes or sometimes longer.

Can't comment on tea as I'm just not discerning enough.

I do know that rehated coffee that has beeen sitting around for hours and then gets heated up again is truly vile stuff.

[Anna N]

Can't abide luke-warm coffee. And coffee re-heated in the microwave is truly an abomination. Hot and fresh or not at all.

[melkor]

Espresso shots: if drinking it as a straight shot it should be served and comsumed immediatley (i.e. served withing 20 seconds of the shot being pulled and sipped over no more than a coupel of minutes before the crema dies off).  If it's going itno a properly made milk drink and that drink is in a preheated thick walled china cup or a thermal stainless steel cup...  it can stay drinkable enough for me to enjoy for up to 20 minutes or sometimes longer.

Can't comment on tea as I'm just not discerning enough.

I do know that rehated coffee that has beeen sitting around for hours and then gets heated up again is truly vile stuff.

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I'd agree with Owen and add that the more milk in the drink the longer it stays drinkable, 30 minutes is still a long time for a latte to sit around but it's much better than a 30 minute old cappuccino.

[ghostrider]

The longer the tea sits, the more acidic it's going to become.

Unless you are using laboratory-grade filters to strain the stuff after the initial brewing, there'll inevitably be some tea leaf particles left in the pot. They will continue to brew as long as a certain level of heat is maintained, & after about 7 minutes, they are mostly exuding tannic acid. Milk & sugar (which I never use) may mask this, of course.

TO answer the specific question: I always finish each pot before brewing the next. Takes 30-45 minutes to finish, depending on the size of the pot.

I always carry a thermos of tea when I'm on an excursion in the car, & it always acquires a certain amount of that "overbrewed" taste after a couple of hours. But that's still usually better than the available roadside alternatives. (The dreaded Tetley, etc.)

[jpr54_]

The longer the tea sits, the more acidic it's going to become.

Unless you are using laboratory-grade filters to strain the stuff after the initial brewing, there'll inevitably be some tea leaf particles left in the pot.  They will continue to brew as long as a certain level of heat is maintained, & after about 7 minutes, they are mostly exuding tannic acid.  Milk & sugar (which I never use) may mask this, of course.

TO answer the specific question: I always finish each pot before brewing the next.  Takes 30-45 minutes to finish, depending on the size of the pot.

I always carry a thermos of tea when I'm on an excursion in the car, & it always acquires a certain amount of that "overbrewed" taste after a couple of hours.  But that's still usually better than the available roadside alternatives.  (The dreaded Tetley, etc.)

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I usually brew only enough for one sitting and a re-brew

I use a timer or "eye ball the bubbles"

When traveling I use t-sac and hot water

joanne

[phaelon56]

Also... the better the quality of the coffee or espresso to begin with... the better it seems to hold up (or at least remain palatable). For my own tastes, acidic coffees or espresso blends don't seem to hold up as well when cooling off as the less acidic ones.

[carswell]

I know purists that will roast their coffee beans immediately prior to grinding their cup of coffee and drinking it immediately.

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Excuse my geekiness but most purists don't grind the beans for at least four and up to 24 hours after roasting, during which time the beans cool and emit C02. If the beans are put in an airtight container before the 24 hours are up, the gas they emit will help keep them fresh.

What about you? How old is too old for you?

Drink espresso within seconds of being pulled. Espresso and milk drinks as soon as they're built. French press: pressed around two minutes after the water goes in and poured immediately. Filter, mixed with hot milk and put in a thermos: up to an hour though the second cup is never as good as the first. Everything is relative, of course. Filter coffee that's been sitting in a thermos for five hours might be shun-worthy at home but tastes like heaven on the cross-country ski trail.

[melkor]

Excuse my geekiness but most purists don't grind the beans for at least four and up to 24 hours after roasting, during which time the beans cool and emit C02. If the beans are put in an airtight container before the 24 hours are up, the gas they emit will help keep them fresh.

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The resting period beans need depends on the roast and the beans being used. Most espresso blends need 48 hours of rest, some 72. An easy way to tell if the coffee needs more rest is to pull a shot, if it that hasn't gassed out the pour will be foamy. Ideally beans should be used from age 3 days old until 8 or 10. I have much more success using up my caffinated beans in that window than I do with decaf which usually takes closer to 14 days to use up a batch.

[carswell]

The resting period beans need depends on the roast and the beans being used.  Most espresso blends need 48 hours of rest, some 72.  An easy way to tell if the coffee needs more rest is to pull a shot, if it that hasn't gassed out the pour will be foamy.  Ideally beans should be used from age 3 days old until 8 or 10.  I have much more success using up my caffinated beans in that window than I do with decaf which usually takes closer to 14 days to use up a batch.

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While I don't disagree with the above, I was referring to the earliest possible moment for grinding the beans for use in making coffee, not just espresso. If you want chapter and verse on this, I'm sure I can dig up some references. And besides, some people like the foaminess, especially if the beans are purchased; it's a sign of freshness and, with French press or filter, it doesn't affect the quality of the brew.

[melkor]

While I don't disagree with the above, I was referring to the earliest possible moment for grinding the beans for use in making coffee, not just espresso. If you want chapter and verse on this, I'm sure I can dig up some references.  And besides, some people like the foaminess, especially if the beans are purchased; it's a sign of freshness and, with French press or filter, it doesn't affect the quality of the brew.

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I think you're talking about a different foamy than I am. I'm saying the espresso as it comes out of the PF spout will have huge air bubbles in it and it comes out as a stream of foam. I suspect you're talking about the clear soapy looking bubbles you get in a cup of coffee brewed with fresh beans. Coffee brewed with beans that haven't gassed out is thin, for the coffee to develop proper body the beans need to gas out. The bubbly crema is just a sign that the beans haven't had sufficent rest.

[carswell]

I think you're talking about a different foamy than I am.  I'm saying the espresso as it comes out of the PF spout will have huge air bubbles in it and it comes out as a stream of foam.  I suspect you're talking about the clear soapy looking bubbles you get in a cup of coffee brewed with fresh beans.  Coffee brewed with beans that haven't gassed out is thin, for the coffee to develop proper body the beans need to gas out.  The bubbly crema is just a sign that the beans haven't had sufficent rest.

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Forget espresso. I'm talking about the foam that appears when I pour the near-boiling water on the ground coffee in a french press or filter. And aside from the inconvenience — I may have to wait for the foam to recede before I can add the remaining water — I've never noticed any lack of body or less than fully developed flavour in the resulting cup. But, hey, we agree on my original point (that one doesn't grind the beans immediately after roasting) and we're veering off topic; if you are dead set on continuing this discussion, it should probably be in a new thread.

[melkor]

Forget espresso. I'm talking about the foam that appears when I pour the near-boiling water on the ground coffee in a french press or filter. And aside from the inconvenience — I may have to wait for the foam to recede before I can add the remaining water — I've never noticed any lack of body or less than fully developed flavour in the resulting cup. But, hey, we agree on my original point (that one doesn't grind the beans immediately after roasting) and we're veering off topic; if you are dead set on continuing this discussion, it should probably be in a new thread.

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We are indeed talking across eachother, back to the topic of Ms Tillie's stale coffee.

[Chef Shogun]

I've found, over the course of study conducted during several all-nighters*, that iced coffee that becomes tepid is preferable, in general, to hot coffee that cools. There are other variables, of course, but at work I tend to nurse my morning Extra Large Iced Latte for most of the day!

-- C.S.

* I've also found that hydration is more important to general all-nighter health than caffeination, but that's another thread! Be sure to consult a doctor before starting any 'not sleeping much for a few days to get a lot of coding done' regimen.

[Carolyn Tillie]

We are indeed talking across eachother, back to the topic of Ms Tillie's stale coffee.

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In referring back to the entire discussion above, I know full well that fresh is better and ultra-fresh is best. I've actually all but given up coffee, except for a once-a-week-or-so latte.

I'm just hoping others might fess up to downing and suffering through old stuff out of laziness...

[melkor]

I'm just hoping others might fess up to downing and suffering through old stuff out of laziness... 

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Things aren't looking good on that front

[Moopheus]

I'm just hoping others might fess up to downing and suffering through old stuff out of laziness... 

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I do at work. I make a cup when I get to my desk (one-cup coffeemaker) and sip it all morning. But I use good coffee and as Owen says that makes a big difference in its long-term drinkableness. Even after two or three hours it's still better than the food-service crap downstairs in the kitchen.

In the afternoon sometimes I resort to the espresso maker in the office next door. It's an automatic Lavazza machine that makes an espresso from a cartridge at the push of a button. It's not great but it's free caffeine.

[phaelon56]

And then there's my former office partner.... who would fill his grungy plastic travel mug with straight black Folger's or the like for the morning commute, leave the unconsumed portion in the cup on the dashboard when he arrived at the office.... and then down the remaining swill on the ride home. Keep in mind that the days where he did this typically had an outside temp of 20 degrees F or lower. No concern for contamination but that was some vile stuff that he drank.