torting a cake

[amccomb]

I am in the middle of baking my mom's wedding cake. So far. I have had nothing but problems. Some of this, I think, comes from using cake mixes - the cakes are too spongey and fall apart easily. I had sent my mom trial versions of the e-gullet Best White and Best Chocolate cakes, and she decided they were "too rich, dense, and sophisticated" (Bwah!? They were plain chocolate and plain white - how is that too sophisticated?) The people at work LOVED them, but my mom said she prefers cake mix cakes, so cake mix cakes it is. Unfortunately, Every single cake has fallen apart when I have tried to turn them out of the pan. Funny how the trial run 'scratch' cakes came out perfect every time!

Anyway, I promised my mom I would torte the cakes and put icing between every layer. So far with my attempts (which worked beautifully on the trial run scratch cakes), if I slice a layer, the top layer falls to pieces when I try to move it to another surface. How can I keep this from happening? At what point should I slice them - when they are completely cooled? Frozen? Right now, I have the crumbling layers (my third attempt, and they are still crumbling) in the freezer, hoping that freezing them will make them stable enough for me to move the layers after they are sliced so I can fill with icing.

Please give me some advice - this is my third night of trying to make these cakes, and I am losing major sleep because of this!

[amyd]

At what point should I slice them - when they are completely cooled?  Frozen? 

←

I let cakes completely cool before slicing them open. Having few knife skills as compared to a professional pastry chef, I use a cake leveler. It's a wire with a handle to cut the cake evenly every time. I don't know if that will help your crumbling cake situation. One suggestion might be to try to get some cardboard (wrap in wax paper or something) to slip under the top layer before trying to move it anywhere - the more support the better!

[Redsugar]

The cake layer should ideally be a room temp. for torting. If you want to proceed using your cake leveler, please be alert to keeping it leveled upon the worksurface, and to motion through the layer as though sawing it when performing the torting action. It would also be to your advantage to have the cake positioned properly on a turntable, a device enthusiastically recommended by professional cake decorators.

Since I have not used cake mixes, my comments re the excess crumbliness of your cakes may be too speculative. Still, they may have some troubleshooting value: If the cake is sunk in the center, the batter was too soft; or the cake was under-cooked; or too cool an oven was used. As you say that they fall apart when removing them from the pans, that may be due to using insufficient liquid; or overcooking; or too much leavening in the mix. Oh, the control you can invest w/ “made-from-scratch” batters! (I hope you’re not discarding the collapsed cakes: you can use the crumbs for mock truffles, by moistening them w/ rum, sherry, or fruit juice, shaping them, then coating them w/ cocoa powder.)

Have you been using a Victoria Sandwich type of mix? In order to have a firmer cake, more suitable for cutting, perhaps you should consider a mix that ensures a denser crumb. No doubt “Sinclair” and other regular contributors to this fourm would have a recipe for a plain-batter cake mix that you could flavour w/ chocolate, citrus, coffee, spices, whatever.

One final note: Thaw frozen cakes in the refrigerator, then bring them to room temp. before levelling & torting.

[Wendy DeBord]

Not all mixes are created equal. Heres a really good mix version that's I've used in the past and can swear that you won't have any problems with it.

1 box duncan heines cake mix

1 sm. box of instant pudding (flavor to match cake)

4 whole eggs

1 cup. h2o

1/2 cup oil

Mix together and bake in a 350F oven.

Chill your cake in the pan! Once it's cold and set (in a couple hours) level off your cake using the top of your cake pan as your guide. This will give you an even cake height for each layer. Unmold cake by rapping pan on counter top. While your unmolding the cake place a cardboard cake circle underneath it the same size as your pan, to catch the cake on.

With cold cake, place your cake on top of your turn table. Using a SERATED knive slice through half the height of the cake. I don't suggest you attempt to torte your cake into more layers until your a more experienced decorator.

To seperate cake layers, insert another cardboard cake circle in between layers and lift up. Although this cake mix version I posted is extremely flexible I suggest you still work cautiously until your more advanced.

[bkeith]

Not all mixes are created equal. Heres a really good mix version that's I've used in the past and can swear that you won't have any problems with it.

1 box duncan heines cake mix

1 sm. box of instant pudding (flavor to match cake)

4 whole eggs

1 cup. h2o

1/2 cup oil

Mix together and bake in a 350F oven.

Wendy beat me to it. That's pretty much the recipe I give my intro students who'd rather bake from a mix. The only difference is that I suggest melted butter instead of oil and whole milk instead of water. I just baked one of these the other day for a class I just started and had some spare buttermilk. Used that, and it added a nice flavor accent.

Also, make sure you're mixing enough. If your cake is super crumbly, you might not have developed the structure enough. Start your mixer on low to bring the ingredients together, then mix on medium speed 60-90 seconds (for a single mix, longer for multiples) until the batter looks pretty smooth -- a few lumps are ok, but the batter should be mostly smooth and creamy looking.

Chill your cake in the pan! Once it's cold and set (in a couple hours) level off your cake using the top of your cake pan as your guide. This will give you an even cake height for each layer.  Unmold cake by rapping pan on counter top. While your unmolding the cake place a cardboard cake circle underneath it the same size as your pan, to catch the cake on.

With cold cake, place your cake on top of your turn table. Using a SERATED knive slice through half the height of the cake. I don't suggest you attempt to torte your cake into more layers until your a more experienced decorator.

To seperate cake layers, insert another cardboard cake circle in between layers and lift up. Although this cake mix version I posted is extremely flexible I suggest you still work cautiously until your more advanced.

Interesting. I usually cool the cake in the pan 15 minutes or so, turn out onto a rack and finish cooling to room temp, then wrap and refrigerate before torting. Never tried chilling the cake in the pan. But the upshot is cold cake handles much better than room temp cake.

If you're using the serrated knife/turntable method. Let the turntable do the work. Hold the knife level right at the edge of the cake (and hold it still -- no sawing!). Start turning the turntable so that the knife cuts into the cake. As you make a full revolution, let the knife start moving toward the center of the cake, but still no sawing. Let the turntable provide the motion. Once you make it to the center, you're done. This makes for a much cleaner cut than trying to saw through a cake and winding up with a roller-coaster surface to try to fill and put back together.

Another hint I like to give is that cardboard circles work fine, but those extremely thin, very crappy cookie sheets that Wilton sells work better. I wouldn't bake cookes on them for love nor money. But they're really thin and sturdy enough to lift a cake layer. I find they slide between the layers much more easily than a cardboard does.

[simdelish]

Interesting.  I usually cool the cake in the pan 15 minutes or so, turn out onto a rack and finish cooling to room temp, then wrap and refrigerate before torting.  Never tried chilling the cake in the pan.  But the upshot is cold cake handles much better than room temp cake.

If you're using the serrated knife/turntable method.  Let the turntable do the work.  Hold the knife level right at the edge of the cake (and hold it still -- no sawing!).  Start turning the turntable so that the knife cuts into the cake.  As you make a full revolution, let the knife start moving toward the center of the cake, but still no sawing.  Let the turntable provide the motion.  Once you make it to the center, you're done.  This makes for a much cleaner cut than trying to saw through a cake and winding up with a roller-coaster surface to try to fill and put back together.

Another hint I like to give is that cardboard circles work fine, but those extremely thin, very crappy cookie sheets that Wilton sells work better.  I wouldn't bake cookes on them for love nor money.  But they're really thin and sturdy enough to lift a cake layer.  I find they slide between the layers much more easily than a cardboard does.

←

Keith, you beat me to it!

I have always cooled/cut my cakes that way, and definitely, let the turntable do the work on torting. Comes out perfect every time, and you can even do triple or more torting cuts, depending on the original height of the cake layer.

Also, I too have a couple of those cheapo, paper-thin metal cookie sheets for sliding under/in tight spaces. Much cleaner and stronger than cardboard.

[chefpeon]

First off, I'll say that I most heartily agree, a cold cake works best for torting. Room temp is the ideal EATING temperature. If I tried torting most of my cakes at room temp, I'd have gone crazy by now.....oh wait....I already am....too late.

Now, I must rant.

You poor thing......I really hate to say it but, god bless the woman, she sounds like a royal pain in the ass. You're really jumping through hoops.......hope you're having fun.....that's all I can say.

She's getting a free cake, so she should be happy with what she gets as far as I'm concerned. Sheesh.

I am able to talk 99% of brides out of making bad decisions with this reasoning:

"Unless you plan on eating the entire cake yourself, I would advise that you choose your cakes

with the thought that you are feeding a multitude of guests with varying tastes. As far as etiquette goes, it is wise to choose cakes that will please the majority. If you have your heart set on having a particular type of cake that you like personally, why not make it the top tier? Then have the rest of the tiers made of cakes that are more crowd-friendly".

The response I get from the brides when I make that suggestion is always positive. They are always concerned about the impression they make and when I point out that they can make a good impression AND have their cake (and eat it too), they always go for it. In my experience,

brides are horrifically self-centered at wedding time, and they sort of forget to think about other people. Have you ever stopped to think how much weddings are completely centered around the bride?

If I were you, I'd say:

"Mom, I know you like cake mix cake, so how about we make the top tier a cake mix cake.

Then perhaps most of your guests would appreciate having the "sophisticated" scratch cake,

and we can make the rest of the tiers out of the scratch cakes. I am having trouble with the

cake mix cakes crumbling on me, and I don't want your cake to fall apart at the reception....

how does that sound?"

That sounds like a much easier solution than fighting with cakes that obviously aren't working for you.

Anyway,

it does sound like perhaps you aren't mixing your cakes long enough. I've make cake mix cakes before, and they were always moist, but never crumbly. Perhaps doing that pudding thing that Sinclair mentioned will help. Also, I will say again, mix and bake them one day, refrigerate overnight, then split and fill the next day. Cold cakes are so much easier to handle.....truly!

[amccomb]

Thanks so much for all of the advice so far!

I really do want my mom to be happy with the cake.

Funny that a couple of people mentioned under mixing. Each of the pans I used required a different amount of batter, so in some cases I was tripling the batter (figuring it was ok, since they were from mixes) and was afraid I overmixed because I was compensating for having more batter in the bowl to mix! But in the end, I had the same problem with the layers that took a single box as well as the tripled pan. The cakes were very moist, so I'm thinking my description was off. What struck me is I almost thought they were TOO moist - but they were done all the way through, so they weren't underbaked. The edges were the biggest problem - it was like the slightly browned edges were pulling away from the main body of the cake. I was tempted to just peel off the golden brown edges entirely, to even things out. :)

Anyway, I called my mom to tell her I was having problems, and asked if she would really mind that much if I made the scratch cakes after all, and she decided to order from a baker, instead. In fact, she is ordering from the old bakery I worked at through high school. Heh. So, I guess I am off the hook. She is not dissappointed, but I am. I've made large cakes before, and made one wedding cake that turned out incredible, so I was hoping to do it again. And now I have a freezer packed full of mix cakes. Well, at least it will give me a base for practicing some soaking syrups, fillings, and icings! I just made some chardonnay passion fruit jelly which is VERY tasty that I think I fill use as a filling for one of the cakes.

In the end, my mom will have her bakery cake with sugary icing flowers, so she will be happy, and I'm glad of that. Funny thing - the cake she is ordering will cost around $100, and it cost me over $300 to buy the supplies, tools, ingrediants, etc!

Oh yes, and I am still making the groom's cake, which is a pineapple upside down cake which I am going to make FROM SCRATCH. Ha! :)

[chefpeon]

the cake she is ordering will cost around $100, and it cost me over $300 to buy the supplies, tools, ingrediants, etc!

Well, you're certainly better humored about it than I would be.

She put you through all that with the cake sampling, etc, you work your butt off, do your research, sweat through details, then she says, "Oh never mind, I'll just order from a bakery."

I don't suppose she offered to reimburse you for any of your trouble?

I'd be royally pissed off.

Even if she WERE my mother.

[amccomb]

Heh. yeah, I'm a little annoyed, but I think she feels bad that I was stressing about it and that is why she is going with the bakery. She wants me to not worry about it, and to relax and enjoy myself. I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand. I am annoyed and really wanted to do this to expand my knowledge and skills, but on the other hand, I feel like my creativity was being stiffled by her strict requests, and I didn't feel like I would be proud to share my creation with with everyone with those restrictions.

I stress about everything I bake, though - I always want it to be perfect.

I still plan on using the cakes sitting in my freezer to further my skills, plus I will be able to make what I want, and to be proud to share it. I am also planning on building the final product like I would have built the wedding cake. In other words, I will be bringing a wedding cake big enough to feed over 100 people to work one day!

But yeah, there is still a part of me that is annoyed.

[bkeith]

In other words, I will be bringing a wedding cake big enough to feed over 100 people to work one day!

Funny thing - the cake she is ordering will cost around $100, and it cost me over $300 to buy the supplies, tools, ingrediants, etc! 

←

Where on earth can you buy a 100-serving wedding cake for $100?

[amccomb]

She is buying a slightly smaller one - When I bought the pans, she thought she was going to have quite a few more people.

But, she is going to a local (Evansville, IN) bakery that does have pretty cheap cakes. The name of the place is The Donut Bank. Donuts are the main focus, but they have cakes, cookies, and a few other things as well. When I used to work there, my mom would come in and buy the individual cake slices (75 cents), which were square pieces of cake, iced on all sides with shell borders and a big rose on top, like a miniature cake. Sugar shock! But her favorite part is the shortening icing, so she loved it. She will be very happy with her cake, I am sure.

[achevres]

Amccomb, I've had a great time reading this thread. Thw suspense! What will she do? Will the cakes torte OK? Her mom changes her mind! She likes shortening frosting. Freezer full of cakes. Getting a wedding cake from a place called The Donut Bank is still making me laugh. You do have a great attitude and I hope you have a great time at the wedding. Pinneapple upside down cake (from scratch) is one of my favorites.

[amccomb]

As an update, I finished the upside down cakes last night, and I used the Cooks Illustrated recipe someone posted in another thread that I started Looking for great upside down cake recipe. The cakes turned out beautifully, and I stacked two 14 inch upsidedown cakes (to add some height and drama - they will be on top of this footed bowl) and drizzled some caramel sauce around the edges to draw attention away from the 'seam'. There will be a 'wreath' of orange wax flowers, bittersweet, and rosehips around the edge (not touching the cake).

I had a little nibble of the cake, and it tasted really nice, but because of the cornmeal, it had almost a cornbread texture. I like it - it has a rustic feel that I think goes well with the presentation. I'm worried, though, that some people will find it gritty. Ah well!

Lastly, I have come up woth some ideas to use up my freezer cakes. I am thinking of doing a spin off of the Exotic Orange Cake by soaking the white cake with a honey syrup, the adding the orange bavaroise between two layers, and the Vanilla cremeux in the middle and topped with my homemade Chardonnay Passion fruit jelly.

Another idea is a Lady Baltimore-type cake with a custard filling with nuts and dates and figs, or maybe with chunks of chocolate, brandy soaked cherries or apricots, and nuts or maybe crumbled amaretti or macaroons.

I could soak one of the white cakes with cream/evaporated milk/condensed milk and make a Tres leches cake and fill the layers with dulce de leche, or maybe pastry cream with nuts or fruit (mangoes or bananas or coconut or strawberries...).

I was thinking of doing something with the chocolate cakes, too. Maybe a praline layer, or even just nutella. Or maybe using nightscotsman's recipe for homemade marshmallows and making a raspberry marshmallow fluff...or just a peanut butter mousse or buttercream.

Any other ideas?