No Crab for You

[vengroff]

Recently my company entertained some visitors from the east coast, the midwest, and Europe. One of my colleagues arranged a dinner for a dozen of us at Wild Ginger.

After a round of satay, I wanted to order some crabs for the table. Most of our guests had never had dungeness crab before, so it seemed like the proper Seattle culinary thing to do. The waitress told me she did not recommend the crab. Why, I wondered out loud, was it not fresh that day? Actually, she thought it was a bad choice for a large group because it was too messy. I ordered something else instead and quickly hopped over to the other side of the table to confer with my co-hosts. One of them was on the ball enough to call the waitress back to our table and ask her to please bring us three crabs. She relented and placed the order.

In the end, the crabs were well recieved, and no excessive messes were created. I can't say the dinner would have been ruined without them, because we had plenty of other interesting food and wine to go around. But it still kind of bugged me, as an experienced Seattle diner, to have the inherent messiness of dungeness crab explained to me and be told I should not be ordering it for my guests.

I seem to get this a lot in Seattle. Maybe I look like a total yokel or something, but waitstaff tends to explain to me the reasons I don't want to order the thing I just ordered, like rare seared tuna, rather than put any faith in me recognizing the descriptions on the menu and ordering what I want. I've even had a waiter explain to me to me that the eel dish I just ordered was, shockingly enough, made from actual filets of *eel*. Does this happen to anyone else?

[winesonoma]

You need a better class of Server or speak with the Owner. This is why restaurants fail.

[Foodie-Girl]

This has been one of my 'disappointments' in many Seattle restaurants.

There seems to be an assumption that the diner needs the menu explained.

If I have a question I will ask.....it's a little insulting when the server decides he/she needs to tell me what something like...oh say Arctic Char is...DUH

And, no, this doesn't happen all the time...but often enough.

Edited September 6, 2004 by Foodie-Girl (log)

[tighe]

My favorite example of this happened to my wife and I at Campagne about 10 years ago. We ordered pate for our appetizer and for some reason our server took it upon themselves to explain to use what pate was, just to make sure we knew what we were getting. I've never been back.

[ladybugseattle]

So your server expressed her opinion, as described, the insult to your intelligence is all in your own head. As you write it was a table with out-of-towners who may not know what you were about to bestow upon them, she was only giving more info for those present unfamilar with the beasts. Judith Martin aka Miss Manners, herself expresses a similar opinion in regards to whole lobster in restaurants. Is a difference of opinion inherently an insult or just your perception? Informed consent is my preference in restaurants after an experience with a whole woodcock and smarmy snickering staff at Wiltons in London.

[petite tête de chou]

Just a thought- crabs aren't really in season yet. At least for the PNW.

Maybe she was trying to steer you away from it because of that?

Even though she DID make a comment about the "mess," so maybe the out-of-season issue wasn't there.

[Andrew Fenton]

Just a thought- crabs aren't really in season yet. At least for the PNW.

Maybe she was trying to steer you away from it because of that? 

I thought the deal with Dungeness crabs is that their range is so broad that they're always in season somewhere.

[Susan G]

My first and subsequent thoughts have been that the waitress was trying to tactfully wave you off a dish that was "off" that night, but couldn't tell you the real reason (a supervisor nearby)?

The servers are the ones who hear the chefs swearing at their seafood purveyors because the order is fishy; they know the walk-in freezer has been down for ten hours and the kitchen hasn't yet dumped the supplies............

Anytime I get a, "You don't want this" cue from my server, I pay attention. The hints can come in all guises. Why take it personally? She may have been trying to protect your happiness (and her tip).

[creepygirl]

This has been one of my 'disappointments' in many Seattle restaurants.

There seems to be an assumption that the diner needs the menu explained.

If I have a question I will ask.....it's a little insulting when the server decides he/she needs to tell me what something like...oh say Arctic Char is...DUH

←

But sometimes the customer doesn't know that a question needs to be asked.

To use an extreme example, a few years ago, I ordered "Grilled Pineapple Cake" at a restaurant. It turned out to be basically a pineapple muffin that had been deep-fried. It never in a million years would have occurred to me to ask my server, "By the way, is the pineapple cake deep-fried?" A heads up from my server would have been appreciated; I would have ordered something else.

I've had a dining acquaintance get upset that the albacore sandwich he ordered at an upscale restaurant was a big slab of fish on bread; it never occurred to him that a tuna sandwich would be anything but canned tuna mixed with mayo. What seems obvious to eGulleteers may be less so to other diners.

I think the most frustrating situation for me in Seattle and elsewhere is getting "You don't want that," from a server, and not being able to get an explanation why, due to language barriers. If it's because that item isn't really fresh, I appreciate the intervention. If it's just because it's spicy or some other culinary reason, I'm much less appreciative. Unfortunately, when I'm unable to ascertain the reason for "you don't want that," it's really hard to decide whether I'm being given fair warning of something I really won't like or just an obstruction to something delicious.

[Foodie-Girl]

I think we're talking about two different issues...

Of course I'm very appreciative when a server subtly or not subtly waves me off a dish that he/she knows will be disappointing....

I'm talking about servers who feel the need to tell me quail is a small game bird....

or that vicchysoise (I'm too lazy to check the spelling) is a cold soup...that sort of comment comes across as the server's judgement that I've just fallen off the turnip truck.....

[petite tête de chou]

Andrew, The crab does have a broad range but with warmer weather they molt. Their shells are soft and their meat is stringy. -ugh- Personally, I believe that the best crabs are to be caught appro. between November and March.

Sorry about the off topic-ness, folks.

[wesza]

About "PNW" Crabs I would like to say that I have personally been eating "Dungeness Crab" at least one a month for over 15 years and never had a Crab that wasn't delicious if prepared properly. I only eat Live Fresh Crabs cooked to order at restaurants or Home, never Frozen or Pre-Boiled or Processed.

Concerning the attitude of servers in Restaurants I have seen this occur all over the world, especially at locations that service tourists or travelers mixed with some local patronage. I don't agree with the attitude because any competent server should be able to surmise the type of clientèle being served.

There are many customers who stray into places serving ethnic food that they aren't cognizant about and order dishes that may have not been appreciated by other customers previously that the employees are not comfortable serving as they knew that the dishes weren't appreciated previously. This could sometimes apply to Whole Crabs, Shrimps served in the Shell with Heads, Whole Quails or Squab and sometimes even in 2004, escargots, or squid.

I had a place in Hawaii where we served African, Portuguese, Spanish, Goan and other Dishes that were extremely hot and spicy based on 1,3,5.8 and 10 stars of heat. Many customers would insist that they wanted 5 star or even 10 stars because they LOVED HOT SPICY FOODS. When this happened and our staff wasn't absolutely sure that the customers actually would enjoy dishes this hot we had one simple way to gage their familiarity with. HOT FOOD.

I or one of my Captains would bring a Bottle of Tabasco Sauce over to the table with some slices of French Bread and Ice Water. I would take a Teaspoon Fill it with Tabasco, Put a Slice of Bread on the Plate and advise, that we required anyone who hadn't eaten at our Restaurant previously who insisted on ordering HOT FOOD to taste a teaspoon of Tabasco Sauce that was milder then our 3 Star Hot Sauce. [TRUTH] The majority would thank us for the warning, a few tried and laughed at us that the Tabasco wasn't that Hot, other would have problems with the Tabasco and request 1 Star or ask if we could make a 2 Star.

Even then it wasn't unusual for those that still insisted on 5 Star to move their Entrée around a lot and not be able to really eat and enjoy the dish due to pride.

The majority were hooked by the heat who enjoyed spicy hot dishes and became regular customers. Asians, Africans and Indians were always served Dishes as they requested, most South Americans, Jamaicans and Mexicans also enjoyed the various Hot Dishes, but preferred Hot Chilli's as a side dish.

I still in Seattle and especially in Lakewood must attempt to explain to servers in Korean Restaurants that I want my dishes cook in the authentic manner.

Irwin [HOT]

[Carlovski]

It's a fine line between being informative, and being patronising.

It's good that staff CAN explain what a dish is, and good that they offer advice - some people aren't as comfortable in restaurants, and probably wouldn't ask, even if they weren't sure what a dish was. I would always suggest that it is made clear that vichysoisse is served cold for instance - saves any embarrassment later.

I personally wouldn't take any offense at having something obvious explained to me, especially with the tendency of some places to completely change classic recipes or add completely inappropriate ingredients/garnishes.

[little ms foodie]

While at Flying Fish not to long ago we told our server that our party of 4 was heading to the theater after so needed to be done by whatever time. Then when they came to take the order one of my friends was thinking out loud about the crab legs. "That really is messy and takes a while to get through, might not be great for your time restriction" the waiter said. We all were thinking the same thing so we appreciated her validation. I think it's better to err on the safe side. I think it's like people who order Tartre in France and then yell because their meat is raw!! Might as well point it out but then let them make their own decision!! I think that is where the server at Wild Ginger went wrong.

[reesek]

i'm only weighing in because i happened to have dinner at wild ginger on saturday. i used to go a lot with an old boss who was a regular there, but it's been about 2 years since i've been...mostly i think of it as a place to go with out-of-towners (which is what we were doing).

while i was pleasantly surprised by the food and especially the wine list, i found the service exceptionally bad. because it's such a huge place - it's really hard to tell if your server is off getting food or drinks, waiting on other customers in a part of the restaurant you can't see or hanging out at the bar. the pacing/timing were terrible...the sommelier (while i'm sure he was very knowledgable) was grating, and the staff just plain didn't seem to "have it down." no sense of what to say, how to advise (and we were asking for advice) or when to be there and when to get lost.

in short - i get the sense that while the staff knows that professionalism is very important, and that guiding the diners through the restaurant is helpful - they don't seem to really grasp what that means.

[lala]

The waitress told me she did not recommend the crab. Why, I wondered out loud, was it not fresh that day? Actually, she thought it was a bad choice for a large group because it was too messy. I ordered something else instead and quickly hopped over to the other side of the table to confer with my co-hosts. One of them was on the ball enough to call the waitress back to our table and ask her to please bring us three crabs. She relented and placed the order.

I'm thinking it's just a matter of semantics. Obviously, in a place where a lot of out of towners dine, she'd seen people struggling with the crab. However, perhaps a "That's crab in the shell, so I'll bring some extra napkins for the table", or something along those lines would have gotten the message across without the insult.

I've never run into this problem with waiters telling me something's too messy/spicy, etc. Maybe I just look too much like a happy l'il omnivore...

I've been trained in the fine art of eating a whole uncracked dungie with no utensils, and when waiters bring the claw crackers, I just wave them away. But then, I also eat mussels by using the shell of one to nab the meat from the others. Maybe I'm just a barbarian...

[beans]

I've been trained in the fine art of eating a whole uncracked dungie with no utensils, and when waiters bring the claw crackers, I just wave them away. But then, I also eat mussels by using the shell of one to nab the meat from the others. Maybe I'm just a barbarian...

I learned, at a very young age, as well. Pshaw on those eansie little forks too.