Waiter tip tricks: shouldn't you be aware?

[beans]

as mentioned elsewhere recently, the upsell utterly enrages me. i personally find it to be the sign of a restaurant that's more interested in their accountants than their chef. not only does it not work on me, it's a pretty sure sign i'm mentally downgrading your tip as you suggest i add on sides, or supersize my margarita, or whatever the hell extra low-cost/high-yield sell plan the managers have devised.

Servers are not servants. They are a restaurants front line sales people that are often dogged by the executive chef to SELL.

While working at a restaurant comparing our last year figures to this year's on specific days, we cannot continue to stress enough that upselling is essential to stay afloat. And we are a high volume, popular venue.

The same goes for joe shmoe/mom and pop places. My parents are barely able to make their bills with their restaurant and are really tapping into every avenue to garner that few extra cents.

The food and beverage business is in a tough spot in this economy for many reasons. Upselling is essential.

[eunny jang]

Everyone, please bear in mind that in a lot of those "mid priced, casual" places are corporate chains with strict, super-detailed, sometimes arbitrary service "policies" and "standards." Some of the things mentioned are things servers are actually taught and encouraged to do, and can be fired for not doing. In particular, a lot of servers (and not just at corporate chains) are in for a world of shit if they're caught not making an effort to go through a spiel about xx promotional drink or xx side with your entree.

It hardly seems fair to punish the server for this - not everyone's out to screw everyone else.

[jbonne]

While working at a restaurant comparing our last year figures to this year's on specific days, we cannot continue to stress enough that upselling is essential to stay afloat. And we are a high volume, popular venue.

...

The food and beverage business is in a tough spot in this economy for many reasons. Upselling is essential.

while i have great compassion for food-service professionals and the generally crappy business environment they're in, and i acknowledge the virtues of a healthy economy, i'm utterly unmoved by companies' fiscal realities.

i'm sure there's lots of pressure to upsell. if i were a professionally trained restaurant manager running a casual venue, i'd probably see it as a necessary evil. luckily, i'm not, so i can lambaste it for the evil i believe it to be.

the last thing Americans need is to have more high-calorie, high-fat food pushed on them. i don't say this as a specific attack on one type of restaurant. unless you're serving bean sprouts and spring water, chances are any kitchen's recipes are designed to taste good, with more focus on flavor than fat content. that's the whole point of eating out.

and though i feel bad for the front-line servers who are forced to do their corporate masters' bidding, i hold utter contempt for the corporate types who are setting these screwy sales goals and seeking to maximize profits. in fact, i'd say it's they who are largely responsible for screwing over the mom-and-pop (in your case literally, sounds like) venues out there.

but i wouldn't say upselling is "essential." fixing the many broken, royally screwed-up priorities of a corporate food culture is essential. providing customers with portions appropriate to a healthy dining experience, at a decent price, is essential. educating the American public that we pay astoundingly little for most of our food is essential. providing servers with decent base wages and benefits such that the quirky modalities of the tipping system is essential.

convincing me that i really would appreciate my dining experience more if i tried the bacon cheddar potato skins? not so essential.

[beans]

Everyone, please bear in mind that in a lot of those "mid priced, casual" places are corporate chains with strict, super-detailed, sometimes arbitrary service "policies" and "standards."  Some of the things mentioned are things servers are actually taught and encouraged to do, and can be fired for not doing.  In particular, a lot of servers (and not just at corporate chains) are in for a world of shit if they're caught not making an effort to go through a spiel about xx promotional drink or xx side with your entree.

It hardly seems fair to punish the server for this - not everyone's out to screw everyone else.

There are plenty of indie casual dining options.

However do note that those corporate chains hire many sharp and savvy MBA's with knowledge about marketing. Restaurants are retail. They sell food. Their policies are not ever arbitrary unless it is a bad lower management person trying to enforce or procure policy or procedure out of spite or ego -- which does happen....

These things are quite studied in depth which is why many places now offer a whole scripted speel because that is selling. Some servers do it with style and aplomb, while others drone along to punch the corporate time clock.

It is perceived consideration for offering variety or choices and quality. Consumers studies seem to back it up, elsewise would they do it? For fun?

I agree, don't hold it against the server; hold it against the choice of eateries and adjust accordingly to seek out a different, more pleasing place to eat in the future.

Edited August 31, 2004 by beans (log)

[beans]

but i wouldn't say upselling is "essential." fixing the many broken, royally screwed-up priorities of a corporate food culture is essential.

So a restaurant isn't in business to make money to profit while keeping costs down and sales high?

I don't subscribe to the concept they are public service and forget operational costs and profit to provide another a good meal. In fact, I've never met a chef yet of that mindset and are always constantly worried about the bottom line.

The customer doesn't have to like the idea, but us in the biz know it is to be run as a business in order to still have a job to return to after the bills to the utilities, landlord, bank and purveyors are paid.

[jbonne]

So a restaurant isn't in business to make money to profit while keeping costs down and sales high?

as a consumer, i believe a restaurant is in business to feed me food i want and provide a pleasant environment in which to eat it.

can't grow sales? can't cut costs? not my problem.

i might have compassion for the individual operator, who's usually a small businessperson and got into it for something other than just making money. they also are usually focused on providing a specific service to their community.

but when you start increasing that towards the chain level, well ... i'd feel the same way about a car company or a widget manufacturer. the company's job is to provide a product or service. my job is to buy it. if i don't like the cars Acura makes, i buy a Mazda. if i don't like the food Restaurant X serves, or the relentless selling culture foisted on the serving staff, see ya.

i wholeheartedly believe in giving my money to people who believe in the food they serve and the environment they serve it in. if they can make it work, great. if they're more concerned with profit margins, i've got a long list of their competitors i'll be happy to frequent instead.

[tommy]

i don't know many successful business people who aren't concerned about profits.

[beans]

So a restaurant isn't in business to make money to profit while keeping costs down and sales high?

as a consumer, i believe a restaurant is in business to feed me food i want and provide a pleasant environment in which to eat it.

can't grow sales? can't cut costs?

See, that's exactly where you and I differ. EVERY restaurant I know or have worked at ARE concerned about their profit margins.

Sales grow through suggestive selling -- add ons, upsells.

Costs are high if product doesn't sell and rots in the walk in.

For all of those "no thank yous" a sales person (the server) receives, some other patron delights in the suggestion. Bingo! Added sales! Increased sales average on that server's shift ending sales report most often generates more tips and a happier employer and employee.

Why is a restaurant owner in business? To profit. Hopefully out of a love and desire to succeed in a very tough, competitive and expensive business to run.

[oakapple]

i wholeheartedly believe in giving my money to people who believe in the food they serve and the environment they serve it in. if they can make it work, great. if they're more concerned with profit margins, i've got a long list of their competitors i'll be happy to frequent instead.

I'm afraid I don't understand your reasoning. How is it inconsistent for a restaurant to "believe in the food they serve," and also be in business to earn a profit. Most of those time, those objectives are mutually-reinforcing.

There are probably very few restaurants that don't engage in some form of "upselling." The only difference is how they do it.

[Sam Salmon]

WOW!

Some real chest beaters on this thread!

Myself I've worked as a waiter in the past but not enough to be able to tell others how to do their jobs.

I'm aware of all the cheap tricks as mentioned but don't frequent the kind of places they're played in all that much.

As to someone touching me that's common in some ethnic places here-I think the younger servers think of me as 'elder uncle' and the older staff as 'part of the furniture'-but in an nice way

[TheFoodTutor]

I am a server as well, and I'm not one to be pushy on the upsell, but I do genuinely suggest things that I think will complement the meal.

What bothers me is the assumption that upselling leads to excessive calorie consumption. In my experience, I've found that the customers who resist upselling the most are usually the ones who, after I've placed their order, ask me where their endless basket of bread is. When I tell them that we don't have bread service, they go ahead and add to their order. It wasn't that they didn't want to eat that much in their case, but rather that they were expecting to eat a certain amount of food for free, and a certain amount that they paid for.

If calorie consumption is an issue you are concerned about, doing away with endless bread service and free refills on soda would be a good place to start, rather than picking a fight over upselling.

[wesza]

Who are they kidding. It's amatuerville at "CNN". Every real server whom I ever worked with that generally did better on tips was more professional in their demeanor, looked after their customers, quickly responded to customers needs, and observed the mood , attitude and demeanor of every table being served.

A smart wait person is often a quick study, in gaging and judging customers requirements.

The best way to build up tips is to be sharp enough to remember repeat customers. by simply saying nice to see you again, and even more important to remember what cocktail, wine or something about the previous time they had patronized the Restaurant.

Even before Computers we encouraged operators to keep guest histories of any customers who made reservation, used credit cards or whom we were able to figure out some way of remembering them.

Another thing it always important to greet customers on arrival, and especially to say goodnight, thank you, and please come again.

The contrived type of setting up customers doesn't work effectively and gets tired quickly. Treating people with respect, recognizing them as persons are what bests builds tips and sales for the business and servers.

It's so effective in many communities where many places aren't interested in trying harder by paying attention to your most important customers, REPEAT CUSTOMERS, that this type of business policy always builds up sales, recommendations and reputations that allow newcomers to become profitable and well known by filling a void.

It's important not to ever take customers for granted, and always make sure that they receive consistent quality of food, beverages and service each and every time they patronize your establishment.

One thing few operators seem not to be able to learn, is a little thing that causes customers to be suspicious, and makes them wonder is this: WAS EVERYTHING OKAY ? that's a real NO NO, especially since it often done repeatedly by what I call, "Robotic Management" if I'm eating at a place it always gives me the creeps hoping that there wasn't something wrong with my meal.

Good servers immediately bring to managements attention any dish thats seems to have not been enjoyed by customers. If this happens, it you chance to inquire, very low keyed : I hope you've enjoyed dinner tonight. Then Gage the response and deal with it accordingly, often it's only because some one wasn't hungry or either they or some one else in party may have suggested something that they didn't enjoy, but politely just moved it around the plate. Being low keyed avoids embarrassment. If there time it's nice to tell the server to provide the customer some type of treat with our compliments. If theres any indication that the fault was the establishment, apologize, take it off the check and again a treat is often appreciated. YOUR JOB IS TO BRING THEM BACK AGAIN.

Irwin

I'm sorry that I didn't add this into my original posting.

All the little gestures, squatting, sitting down and the rest of the baloney are in fact:

Provided in training at the types of places in manuals provided by those "MBA"s who don't have a clue about making money, or any original thoughts. Their "Motto" is adapt, copy and don't take any chances. So it gets stale even quicker.

In our society it doesn't take very long for a novelty to get tired, FAST. But it takes much longer for management to move their BUTTS. After all they spent time and effort putting together the instructions. DAH !

The Restaurant Business is competitive, Chains can't sell tradition or experience, so always turn to gimmicks or hooks. None last very long, because customers are generally smarter then chain management. Tradition in service always wins. We even hired Hostess who were expected to babysit or pay extra attention to children, especially those who were difficult. The Hostess with the most-est in doing that part of their job, were quickly promoted to Waitress. It taught them how to deal with families, plus again encouraged repeat business and recommendations from families.

Everything done in the business is related to the bottom line.

Irwin

[tommy]

the last thing Americans need is to have more high-calorie, high-fat food pushed on them. i don't say this as a specific attack on one type of restaurant.  unless you're serving bean sprouts and spring water, chances are any kitchen's recipes are designed to taste good, with more focus on flavor than fat

i was hoping you could explain this. upselling and "super-sizing" aren't always the same thing. at least in my experience. unless this is a separate tirade against non-mom-and-pop profit-loving restaurants.

Edited August 31, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Mottmott]

Curmudgeons and grumps, all of us!

Personally, I always add 5% if the restaurant is good enough to keep going back to or if I've dined solo, but never for stupid pet tricks.

[beans]

Stupid pet tricks?

Nah. I'm happy to demystify that restaurants are business and actively seek out and teach methods to empower their servers to make more money for themselves as well as for the house.

No smoke and mirrors there.

Wait on a few tables and ye shall see.

It is very personal to me for I'm knee deep in my family's restaurant operation and still have to find the time to earn a real paycheck making the most of the time I spend at the real job pouring various liquids for spiritous enjoyment. We serve food at some of our eight bars too (within the same restaurant), so serving is never something that is forotten or left behind for a 'tender in most oHIo bars as it is by state law we serve food in order to be able to sell alcohol.

No voodoo to it.

Edited August 31, 2004 by beans (log)

[oakapple]

Who are they kidding. It's amatuerville at "CNN". Every real server whom I ever worked with that generally did better on tips was more professional in their demeanor, looked after their customers, quickly responded to customers needs, and observed the mood , attitude and demeanor of every table being served.

CNN did not originate this. They were simply reporting on a recent study that had been done by a professor at Cornell University. Some of the techniques mentioned may be old hat, but the study is new. It was a controlled test, and not just some guy making random obseravtions. Whatever we may think of these tricks, I have no doubt that they really do work at the types of restaurants that were studied.

It's worth restating that most of the research was at "low- to mid-priced casual dining restaurants such as Applebee's, Cracker Barrel, Olive Garden and Outback Steakhouse." Most people on eGullet don't each much at these places. We are atypical.

The article noted "that if some of these techniques were employed at more formal, refi-your-house-to-pay-for-dinner restaurants, they might actually decrease tips." But upscale restaurants have their own way of tempting you to run up the tab. They are less blatant about it, but they do it nonetheless.

Edited August 31, 2004 by oakapple (log)

[WHT]

In a crowded and noisy restaurant, squatting may reflect a waitron's genuine effort to actually hear what a patron is ordering, so I cannot dismiss it outright.

=R=

Sorry but I don’t buy that in most cases. In fact I think if the ambient noise level is that high there are other problems to address. Leaning forward is one thing, squatting make the server look like a subservient inviting abuse.

[Gifted Gourmet]

CNN did not originate this. They were simply reporting on a recent study that had been done by a professor at Cornell University. Some of the techniques mentioned may be old hat, but the study is new. It was a controlled test, and not just some guy making random obseravtions. Whatever we may think of these tricks, I have no doubt that they really do work at the types of restaurants that were studied.

Thank you for restating this because it does lend a certain amount of credibility to the original post. I think that given these understandings, the means of "enhancing" a gratuity make a lot of sense.... but certainly can't be applied to all types of dining obviously.

[Pan]

If calorie consumption is an issue you are concerned about, doing away with endless bread service and free refills on soda would be a good place to start, rather than picking a fight over upselling.

Free refills on soda? Where are you? Never in New York!

[jbonne]

I'm afraid I don't understand your reasoning. How is it inconsistent for a restaurant to "believe in the food they serve," and also be in business to earn a profit. Most of those time, those objectives are mutually-reinforcing.

it's not that they're inconsistent. it's the order in which they do it. profits first, commitment to quality second, that's a restaurant i'm likely to walk out of. quickly. never to return.

no question it's a tough business. the average lifespan of a restaurant, at least in New York, is somewhere around two years. (or was.) most simply aren't needed where they're located, or fail to find a profit base, or don't deliver at a level customers expected. the economy these days doesn't help.

i honestly believe that restauranteurs who stay the business first and foremost for their love of it can survive, if they develop a loyal clientele, and i'll do my darndest to support them. those who want to get rich can sell their cheese fries to someone else.

[jbonne]

In my experience, I've found that the customers who resist upselling the most are usually the ones who, after I've placed their order, ask me where their endless basket of bread is.

as fascinating as it must be frustrating. resistance to sales tactics, i wholeheartedly believe in. cheapness, well, there's no excuse for it.

If calorie consumption is an issue you are concerned about, doing away with endless bread service and free refills on soda would be a good place to start, rather than picking a fight over upselling.

do we have to choose? i'd opt for both.

[jbonne]

i was hoping you could explain this. upselling and "super-sizing" aren't always the same thing. at least in my experience. unless this is a separate tirade against non-mom-and-pop profit-loving restaurants.

while there are occasional upsells that may involve a smaller, if more expensive, item, most of the ones i've been party to involve adding an item (or two or three) to the bill, or upgrading to something a bit larger and more extravagant.

i'm unsuccessfully trying to think of a moment when that doesn't result in more calories on the table, maybe save when a green salad becomes one with heirloom tomatoes. (versus adding a fried chicken cutlet on top.) as it is already, entree sizes at most places i frequent are large enough to consist of several servings of food.

it is a tirade against non-mom-and-pop places, though i'd posit that corporate restaurants are primarily responsible for this trend, and thus get a good share of the blame.

[TheFoodTutor]

If calorie consumption is an issue you are concerned about, doing away with endless bread service and free refills on soda would be a good place to start, rather than picking a fight over upselling.

do we have to choose? i'd opt for both.

I'm with you there.

As far as where I am working, I work in Atlanta at a very high-volume but slightly upscale chain restaurant (with 50 locations nationwide) that provides free refills on every non-alcoholic beverage, except for our freshly-squeezed lemonade. Even that is problematic, and when people ask for a refill, I sometimes feel a need to say, "Would you like to *order* another lemonade?" since many people assume the refills will be free.

I used to work at a fine-dining Italian restaurant where our cheapest menu item was the spaghettini pomodoro, which is basically just boxed pasta with a very simple sauce made with Italian canned tomatoes. Whenever people would ask me what I thought of that particular dish, I'd always want to say, "Well, it's the cheapest thing on the menu, but at $13, it's a rip-off for something that I could make at home for about 35 cents a serving."

My tendency would be to upsell to our signature sea bass item, which really showed a lot more of the talent of the kitchen. Calorie-wise, the sea bass was served in a fairly light broth with lemon, tomatoes, carrots and fennel, as opposed to a plate full of empty calories, as in the spaghetti with tomato sauce.

I really was upselling for a reason there, because if I could get someone to buy the sea bass instead of the spaghetti, they'd get a better dish, have a better experience, and give me a better tip, all while ordering something that would actually cost the house a little more in food cost. It's still worth the sell, however, since building that customer base leads to more repeat business.

Probably the biggest thing to watch out for, if you want to resist sales technique in a restaurant, is the sell on the appetizer right off the bat. Many folks get the appetizer, because they're hungry when they come in, and then they have to box some of the entree before they go, because they've ordered too much. I still always offer it anyway, because sometimes people are so hungry when they sit down that they need to have something to munch on right away.

The reasons for offering these things is not always an antagonistic money-grub. Most of the time, my intentions are simply to give the guest the best experience they can get in whatever way possible.

[Tess]

For all of those "no thank yous" a sales person (the server) receives, some other patron delights in the suggestion. Bingo! Added sales!

Upselling may get you an immediate profit, but do you have any way of knowing how many patrons never come back because of it? There's one restaurant I've never visited a second time because too much upselling went on. I got the feeling the server had been told to do it to everyone at least twice, or something like that. She was very nice and charming and even wrapped up a second batch of bread to go, free. I liked the food, too, but I just do not want to go through what is clearly an upselling routine every time.

[Juanito]

BTW - to go slightly off topic - when upselling, a good waiter will nod his head slightly when offering you an upsell. There's even a name for the move, but I can't remember it at the moment. It's a very subtle move, and I've seen it work with my own eyes countless times.

Yes, there is a name for it. It's called the "Sullivan Nod" and it was developed and promoted by a restaurant consultant named Tom Sullivan. ( I think his name was Tom) I attended one of his seminars.

Anchor Foods (Poppers, anyone?) now McCain Foods, employed him to train servers to push their line of deep fried appetizers. There was even a video available for operators.

He had a whole exercise where he would show servers how much extra money they could earn by suggesting appetizers.