What's so good about the Southeast?

[LJFATS]

Then there is Florida which is a place unlike any other...it is just Florida...just as California is California. Florida has a distinctive personality because so many people have been drawn to it from other places.

.

←

I understand what you are saying, but I do disagrree to a point. I have done extensive travelling (I like to drive and see what's there) in N.E. FL and Central FL and other than urban areas like Orlando, Tampa (huge Cuban pop), St. Augustine, maybe Gainsville, and Daytona, the rural areas and cities like Jacksonville, Tallahasse, and Pensacola are very Southern in nature. We eat grits and greens, they tell me tea comes w/ your sugar water (i don't like iced tea). Crystals hot sauce and Dukes mayonaisse are the prefered choice in this neck of the woods.

Oh, and bbq, some of the best i have ever had right here in FL ( and I have lived in Charleston and Atlanta).

The trials of some Southern rural areas you descibed are very much the same as many rural north and central FL town.

[Carrot Top]

I understand what you are saying, but I do disagrree to a point. I have done extensive travelling (I like to drive and see what's there) in N.E. FL and Central FL and other than urban areas like Orlando, Tampa (huge Cuban pop), St. Augustine, maybe Gainsville, and Daytona, the rural areas and cities like Jacksonville, Tallahasse, and Pensacola are very Southern in nature. We eat grits and greens, they tell me tea comes w/ your sugar water (i don't like iced tea). Crystals hot sauce and Dukes mayonaisse are the prefered choice in this neck of the woods.

Oh, and bbq, some of the best i have ever had right here in FL ( and I have lived in Charleston and Atlanta).

The trials of some Southern rural areas you descibed are very much the same as many rural north and central FL town.

←

You are lucky to have the opportunity to travel, to drive and 'see what's there'...it is great fun and really interesting.

I didn't mean to exclude any areas of the Southeast in my writings...when I spoke of 'Florida' it was in a very broad sense in that initial sentence...it was just 'the Florida most of us know'.

When I think of both Florida and California...to most of the rest of the country, they are places that people from colder climates wish to escape to, or places that have lured people from other areas with the promise of jobs in various industries that are specific to those states.

They are sort of 'Big Name' states in that sense.

Masses of people have been drawn to relocate there for a variety of reasons.

Florida...you've got Palm Beach for the winter socialites...the entire area surrounding it for retirees that want a warm comfortable climate that has resources geared their needs...Orlando for the family entertainment complexes and all that that involves.....Fort Lauderdale for the boating folk...the Keys for atmosphere and Key West for something like New Orleans style fun....the orange-growing areas for quiet sightseeing, the beaches everywhere.....the West Coast that so many corporations are drawn to for their conference/vacation capabilities...and a lot more that many visitors never see. (Almost forgot to mention Miami...!)

And what is incredible is how recently Florida (and California) were actually cleared and settled...and the amount of creative effort that went in to making the native land of the areas comfortable and liveable and productive.

I remember reading the story of the initial exploration of Florida, the masses of mosquitos, the density of forest/jungle, the neccesity of water in some areas...my goodness....what a lot has been done to that state, and is still being done, by mankind! Says a lot.

Edited September 14, 2004 by Carrot Top (log)

[FoodZealot]

Even as an outsider, I feel very comfortable in the Southeast. I think many of the posts corroborate what I've experienced in the way of hospitality and courtesy. In terms of cuisine, I think there's a "realness" that elevates simple foods into deeply satisfying dishes. There's another immediate bond, since I loves the Pork, too. I haven't seen all of the Southeast, but I'd like to fix that sometime soon.

I realize that there's fine contemporary food as well, but I'll just add a few things I think of as being characteristic the Southeast (besides BBQ). Sorry if they're a bit obvious, probably even bordering on touristy.

• Bananas Foster
  a meat and three
  banana pudding, cold or hot
  greens with a shot of peppers and vinegar
  red beans and rice
  pecans
  

~Tad

[robyn]

I understand what you are saying, but I do disagrree to a point. I have done extensive travelling (I like to drive and see what's there) in N.E. FL and Central FL and other than urban areas like Orlando, Tampa (huge Cuban pop), St. Augustine, maybe Gainsville, and Daytona, the rural areas and cities like Jacksonville, Tallahasse, and Pensacola are very Southern in nature. We eat grits and greens, they tell me tea comes w/ your sugar water (i don't like iced tea). Crystals hot sauce and Dukes mayonaisse are the prefered choice in this neck of the woods.

Oh, and bbq, some of the best i have ever had right here in FL ( and I have lived in Charleston and Atlanta).

The trials of some Southern rural areas you descibed are very much the same as many rural north and central FL town.

←

What part of the woods here do you frequent (I see you live in Jacksonville)? If you eat at BB's - or Bistro Aix - or Matthew's - or Medure's - or Cafe Carmon - or lots of other places - you're not going to find grits and greens - tea with sugar water - crystal's hot sauce - or Duke's mayo. They're not world class restaurants - after all - Jacksonville isn't a world class city - but they're pretty good.

By the way - I've found that many of the old "southern" places here - including the "fish camps" - to be of uneven - and frequently - no quality (there are of course some exceptions). Not to mention that I was afraid to go to some of my favorite mom and pop "southern" places after Hurricane Frances because I was sure they wouldn't throw away half-defrosted/semi-warm refrigerator food. In fact - there was a Florida Times Union piece where a local restaurant owner was thanking his lucky stars that he didn't have to throw away all his food because he only lost power for a little less than 24 hours . In contrast - a place like Biscotti's wound up trashing everything (sad - but the right thing to do). So to me - "old-fashioned" isn't always better. Far from it.

Also BTW - you can get unsweet tea if you ask for it in restaurants that serve iced tea (most restaurants have 2 pitchers - sweet - and unsweet).

I know there are people who think the south should be like a museum - but those are the same people who think the transformation of the lower east side from an area of huddled masses to urban chic is "awesome". I have lived in the south for over 30 years - and am glad we've resisted the idea of simply being a quaint tourist attraction for people who like to think they're slumming when they eat a mess of greens. Yes - it's true that a lot of people who settled here came for the weather (that's been true for over 100 years now). But we wouldn't have world class doctors at Mayo Jacksonville if they didn't prefer Florida winters to Minnesota winters. Robyn

[LJFATS]

Oh my!!!

Robyn you misconstooed(sp) what I ment. I work at an upscale restaurant on the South Bank, and have worked at 3 of the places you mentioned. I was more commenting on the cultural differences between N. and S. FL. Maybe I should have been more articulate than joviale. I will admit I was stereo typing w/ products and such, but I was speaking for the general public, i.e. poor folk, i.e, the real pepole who make this town funtion; Saliors, JEA workers, teachers, line cooks, (I could go on). They can't afford to eat at Mathew's, B.B.'s, or Giovannie's.

I am sure they would love to eat at the above mentioned places. But budget wise they can't. They go to Winn Dixie and buy what they can w/ the money they have. Usually that is regional foods, then prepared in regional ways, which in N. FL are more southern in nature than other regions. I love my job and I love my art, but if I did not have that exposere I would be in the same boat as above. And I still eat grits, greens, chicken fried steak, and crystals hot sauce all the time. (I just don't like tea in any form, sweet, unsweet...I can tolorate hot tea.)

Oh, and trust me, I love the fact this town is evolving. I get to learn and I have job security when I learn more. Because I am good at what I do. And I love it.

LJ

p.s. We lost quite a bit of product to Frannces.

Edited September 15, 2004 by LJFATS (log)

[Varmint]

I know there are people who think the south should be like a museum - but those are the same people who think the transformation of the lower east side from an area of huddled masses to urban chic is "awesome".  I have lived in the south for over 30 years - and am glad we've resisted the idea of simply being a quaint tourist attraction for people who like to think they're slumming when they eat a mess of greens.  Yes - it's true that a lot of people who settled here came for the weather (that's been true for over 100 years now).  But we wouldn't have world class doctors at Mayo Jacksonville if they didn't prefer Florida winters to Minnesota winters.  Robyn

←

This is actually a good discussion, and one upon which I'd like to expand a bit.

Let's not focus on the sociological stereotypes of the South, but on the gastro-cultural (is there such a word) importance of this region. Even I get slightly tired of discussions that focus on barbecue and meat & 3 joints, but the South's culinary heritage is worthy of celebrating. Where else is there so much energy focused on regional food. The Southern Foodways Alliance alone has over 500 members who are committed to studying and discussing all that is great about Southern food. Is there a New England Foodways Alliance, or a Californian version? I don't think so.

Unfortunately, the food of the South is inexhorably connected with its people: the fishermen, the farmworkers, the African slaves. But these traditions, as Robyn has pointed out, are evolving, as the South grows with individuals from other parts of the country and the world.

What I'm asking is that we're free to discuss the South and its people as long as some connection is made with our culinary history. One person's experience may be dramatically different from another's, and don't assume that you know more about a region than someone else. All of us in the South have unique experiences to share, so let's share them in a genteel manner, just as we were taught to do.

[FL Heat]

I'll use the "quaint tourist attraction" approach if it means I get to educate others about the history of my family, my traditions, my heritage. Plenty of friends have come over for "barbecue" to be astounded by the plentiful food and the history of each dish. . .expecting grilled chicken breasts and corn on the cob, and getting pulled pork, brisket, family salad & side dishes.

For example, I went to Fort Sumter on a trip to Charleston, thinking it'd be a cool tourist thing. It really changed my thinking and altered my view of the Civil War, made me question a lot of things I'd been taught. I'd like to think that showcasing the bounty of the gardens, the "something from nothing" mentality, and the generousity of my upbringing will do the same to others. My boyfriend, from the Midwest, had never tasted brisket til I made it in the smoker. What had been, for him, a novel attachment to my daddy (the smoker was a gift from him) has become a devotion of sorts. He loves the smoker, learned all about brisket & pulled pork and now embraces the barbecue culture as lovingly as he does the meat & potatoes he grew up with.

Sharing experiences is wonderful. If it takes my sweet smile and light drawl to convince someone of that, it's fine with me. If it takes putting them inside a fancy Charleston restaurant to see that grits ARE good, that's fine, too. I'll happily taste their lox & bagels or fancy eye-talian dishes, and I want them to have the same love & regard for my food heritage as they do for their own :)

Diana

[Holly Moore]

I head south with a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I don't trust an Italian restaurant in the south. Leery of Chinese or other Asian too. French, no way. This is not fair, and I probably am wrong - at least occasionally wrong.

To me Southern cuisine in the South is as dominant as Italian cuisine in Itally. I am confident ordering meat and three, fish camp fried fish, carolina barbecue and anything else "southern" - even that edgy Nouvelle South cookin'. But no way would I squander a Southern meal on a plate of pasta or Peking duck.

I'm sure, if I lived in the South, my attitude would be more all-encompassing. But I don't and it isn't. I realize I'm probably missing a lot of great dining, but that's what I have Philadelphia for.

Edited September 15, 2004 by Holly Moore (log)

[robyn]

Oh my!!!

Robyn you misconstooed(sp) what I ment. I work at an upscale restaurant on the South Bank, and have worked at 3 of the places you mentioned. I was more commenting on the cultural differences between N. and S. FL. Maybe I should have been more articulate than joviale. I will admit I was stereo typing w/ products and such, but I was speaking for the general public, i.e. poor folk, i.e, the real pepole who make this town funtion; Saliors, JEA workers, teachers, line cooks, (I could go on). They can't afford to eat at Mathew's, B.B.'s, or Giovannie's.

I am sure they would love to eat at the above mentioned places. But budget wise they can't. They go to Winn Dixie and buy what they can w/ the money they have. Usually that is regional foods, then prepared in regional ways, which in N. FL are more southern in nature than other regions.  I love my job and I love my art, but if I did not have that exposere I would be in the same boat as above. And I still eat grits, greens, chicken fried steak, and crystals hot sauce all the time. (I just don't like tea in any form, sweet, unsweet...I can tolorate hot tea.)

Oh, and trust me, I love the fact this town is evolving. I get to learn and I have job security when I learn more. Because I am good at what I do. And I love it.

LJ

p.s. We lost quite a bit of product to Frannces.

←

People of lesser means can't afford to eat in high-end New York restaurants either. But New York doesn't wind up being a cultural stereotype - which is what happens in a lot of the south. I guess my gripe is what a lot of outsiders see when they look at us. They really don't bother to look beyond the surface.

It's funny - after living in Florida for over 30 years - I think I've learned to eat/cook more different cuisines here than I would have encountered just about anywhere else. I can cook everything from chicken in mojo with rice and beans to all manner of fish (every which way) to Hoppin' John. I've been here in north Florida for 10 years (from Miami) - and now I can do traditional New Year's southern stuff with the best of them (that's just about the only day I do anything other than grits - which I do all the time - because neither my husband nor I can afford all the fat/salt/etc. in those traditional dishes). I also cook a mean sweet potato pie .

In fact - I have to laugh when I buy things like smoked ham hocks in Publix on December 30 and get asked by a dozen people what the heck I do with them. On the other hand - people ask me about the rutabagas in the fall too. A lot of people here - particularly younger ones - are really "white bread"/McDonalds when it comes to cooking/eating - the checkers at Winn Dixie usually can't recognize a radish when they check me out. But that isn't only true here - it's true of my family in North Carolina. And I'm sure it's true of millions of people who've never stepped foot in the south.

By the way - if it's not a breach of confidence - PM/email me and let me know where you work. If we eat there - I will stop in and say hello. When we eat on the South Bank - we frequently have my father-in-law with us. He's in a wheel chair - congestive heart failure - so we try to stick with the places that are very handicapped accessible where we know we can order something plain without a ton of salt. Kind of limits us. But - when we're on our own - we get to just about everywhere. Take care, Robyn

P.S. Let's hope Jeanne stays far away from us.

[robyn]

This is actually a good discussion, and one upon which I'd like to expand a bit.

Let's not focus on the sociological stereotypes of the South, but on the gastro-cultural (is there such a word) importance of this region.  Even I get slightly tired of discussions that focus on barbecue and meat & 3 joints, but the South's culinary heritage is worthy of celebrating.  Where else is there so much energy focused on regional food.  The Southern Foodways Alliance alone has over 500 members who are committed to studying and discussing all that is great about Southern food.  Is there a New England Foodways Alliance, or a Californian version?  I don't think so. 

Unfortunately, the food of the South is inexhorably connected with its people: the fishermen, the farmworkers, the African slaves.  But these traditions, as Robyn has pointed out, are evolving, as the South grows with individuals from other parts of the country and the world.

What I'm asking is that we're free to discuss the South and its people as long as some connection is made with our culinary history.  One person's experience may be dramatically different from another's, and don't assume that you know more about a region than someone else.  All of us in the South have unique experiences to share, so let's share them in a genteel manner, just as we were taught to do. 

←

I agree that tradition and history are important. Because if you're coming up with something new - you have to compare it with its antecedents. Not that purity of lineage is the most important thing - but you have to "make the connection". Sophisticated people talk about the puns Thomas Keller sometimes makes with his food - but how many people can discuss the history of southern cooking and Bill Neal and Crook's Corner and shrimp and grits? When these "sophisticated people" come to the south - it's like they turn off 2/3 of their brains.

Of course - there's "tradition/tradition" - like once we found ourselves in Meridian MS - and ate at a "German" restaurant that had been there since the 19th or early 20th century. A real German restaurant. You get that in the south - people from non-southern cultures who made a turn - or a wrong turn - and they wound up in the south - and their families have been here for over 100 years.

But there are the newer "traditions" too. We've had a large Greek community in Jacksonville for a while. And now we're getting a large community from Belarus. Not to mention people from various Asian countries (like China). Our restaurants don't really show it yet - our ethnic restaurant situation isn't terrific - but that's probably because most 20 somethings are more familiar with fast food and chains than real food. I don't think the south is unique in that respect.

Time for someone else to talk, Robyn

[robyn]

I head south with a bit of a chip on my shoulder.  I don't trust an Italian restaurant in the south.  Leery of Chinese or other Asian too.  French, no way.  This is not fair, and I probably am wrong - at least occasionally wrong.

To me Southern cuisine in the South is as dominant as Italian cuisine in Itally.  I am confident ordering meat and three, fish camp fried fish, carolina barbecue and anything else "southern" - even that edgy Nouvelle South cookin'.  But no way would I squander a Southern meal on a plate of pasta or Peking duck.

I'm sure, if I lived in the South, my attitude would be more all-encompassing.  But I don't and it isn't.  I realize I'm probably missing a lot of great dining, but that's what I have Philadelphia for.

←

Well - I grew up near Philadelphia - and worked when I was younger in center city Philadelphia (lived in Rittenhouse Square) - and how would you feel if I said that Philadelphia is basically worthless unless you want to try scrapple or have a cheese steak hoagie (I don't share your high opinion of it foodwise)? Today - I frequently travel just to eat - and Philadelphia isn't on my radar screen (why would I go to Philadelphia when I can go to London or New York or Paris? - although I do hope to travel one day to the flower show in Philadelphia - it can't compete with the Chelsea Flower Show in London which we went to in May - but it's easier for me to get to Philadelphia than London).

Note that I'll really go out of my way to get to someplace that's cutting edge - but no geographical location has a monopoly on that - and the quality of the experiences vary (I know that the epiphany I had dining at Crook's Corner for the first time wasn't anywhere near the same as my first 3 star eating experience in Paris - but it was the first light blinking in my brain - this could really be something - just like the first time I ever had Floribbean food at Louie's Backyard in Key West when Norman Van Aiken took over the kitchen - or Doug Rodriguez was the first chef - at YUCA in Coral Gables - doing Nuevo Cubano). What has Philadelphia been doing in the last 25 years that's like that?

Also - I think it's important to differentiate between the restaurants we want to eat at when time (in terms of travel) and money (both money out of pocket and money in terms of time) are no object - and the restaurants we'd like to see developing where we live - the ones we'll frequent when we're home. I now have a favorite Chinese restaurant here. If you asked me 2 years ago - I'd say that all Chinese food here is inedible - and I certainly wouldn't recommend the place on my top 25 list of places to eat in my tri-county area. But I will continue to frequent it - because I hope it will get better. Likewise - a friend took us to Ruby Foo's <sp?> last time we were in Philadelphia (a fair number of years ago). It was ok Chinese - certainly better than Jacksonville - but I've had better in New York - London - Vancouver - etc. Even if Philadelphia was a destination restaurant city (which it isn't in my opinion) - I wouldn't put Chinese food high on my list there.

I mean - all you're saying is "when in Rome" - etc. So what's novel about that - whether you're talking about north Florida or south Philly? And - as a food writer - I assume your goal is to try to get people to the kinds of places they can't find at home (so you're into that "when in Rome" thing in spades). Robyn

P.S. Make that Susanna Foo in Philadelphia. Guess it's Ruby Foo in New York. All those high end relatively mediocre Chinese restaurants look the same to me.

Edited September 16, 2004 by robyn (log)

[therese]

Well - I grew up near Philadelphia - and worked when I was younger in center city Philadelphia (lived in Rittenhouse Square) - and how would you feel if I said that Philadelphia is basically worthless unless you want to try scrapple or have a cheese steak hoagie (I don't share your high opinion of it foodwise)?

And please, please, don't make me eat a cheese steak or scrapple. If I want to eat crap food I can just head downtown to the Varsity (I live in Atlanta, for those of you who aren't crap food cognoscenti).

Absolutely the worst Italian food I've had in recent memory was at an Italian restaurant in Philadelphia. And then there was some really horrifically bad (but very expensive) seafood at some tourist trap. I also had some nice if not necessarily memorable meals in Philadelphia (at Rouge and at a combo fishmarket/restaurant a couple of blocks away) on the same visit.

But the real question here is why anybody would come here with a culinary chip on his shoulder in the first place. Well, call me silly, but could it be because the rest of the country looks down at us as ignorant layabout racists who make good barbecue because we've got plenty of free time on our hands? Because you can only have sex with your sister so many times a day.

[Holly Moore]

It truly is not my intent to compare Philadelphia with the South in terms of cuisine. I got carried away in my final sentence. I should have said "home" instead of Philadelphia. I don't travel to find the same food I can find at home.

What I wanted to communicate is that the South is one of the few US regions where, in a week's visit, I can be happy putting down three meals a day of the regional cuisine. Southern cuisine has a depth and a variety one doesn't find in other regions of the U.S..

What I will also say is that the South is a relative late-comer in the world cuisines. My experience, and that is all I can speak from, is that my odds of finding above-average international cooking is better in the cities with longer established international culinary presence. There are shining stars with very good international cuisine in the South, but the South has nowhere near the depth of the Mid Atlantic area. (And within the Mid Atlantic area Philadelphia has nowhere near the depth of New York City.)

I wish the Mid Atlantic had an identifiable cuisine. We don't. It gets to me when those who do have such a wonderful heritage take it for granted or put it down as poor folk food or an embarassment.

Dropping to my favorite level of cuisine - cheesesteaks and barbecue - I'm more confident walking into an unknown barbecue shack than an unknown cheesesteak joint. Again, speaking only from my experience, my odds of finding such a place that takes pride in it's cooking are far greater in the South.

And as for the Varsity serving "crap," they serve anything but. They are as good as anyone at what they do and have been excelling for a lot longer than most anyone else. I'm hoping that Atlantans are as proud of the Varsity as they are of the finest restaurant in Buckhead.

[therese]

And as for the Varsity serving "crap," they serve anything but. They are as good as anyone at what they do and have been excelling for a lot longer than most anyone else. I'm hoping that Atlantans are as proud of the Varsity as they are of the finest restaurant in Buckhead.

Atlantans are fond of The Varsity because it's a home town thing, but that doesn't mean that they don't recognize it for what it is: tourist food. Yes, people eat there, but then they also eat at McDonald's. The service is better at The Varsity, I'll say that.

I rarely eat the sorts of foods that most people identify with the South in restaurants, as they're pretty much never any better than mediocre, and frequently dreadful. Traditional Southern foods rely on very fresh ingredients, simply prepared. You want slow food? Imagine growing or rearing everything you eat. Restaurants simply can't manage it, unless you're talking about someplace very upmarket indeed.

[Holly Moore]

Atlantans are fond of The Varsity because it's a home town thing, but that doesn't mean that they don't recognize it for what it is: tourist food. Yes, people eat there, but then they also eat at McDonald's. The service is better at The Varsity, I'll say that.

If there is any restaurant in Atlanta that doesn't survive on tourists it has to be the Varsity. I'm sure they get their share of tourists but will bet that the vast majority of its patrons are locals who know a good thing when they eat it.

[LJFATS]

Speaking of cultural idenaty(sp) and the evalution of it. In colledge, I worked at this place called Caralina's in Charleston. it is owned by a vietnamese woman, whom is also the chef, and her husband, a Southern Gentalman type. You could get fried wantons and shrimp and grits all in the same meal.

http://carolinasrestaurant.com/content.asp?catID=5805

It is a succesful mix of 2 completly different cultures. And the deserts rocked too.

LJ

[LJFATS]

Forgive me being a culinary school graduate and all, but what is scrapple?

Oh, I can't remember who brought it up, but I have figured out chineese food in the South. If you got less than $15 to feed you and your pregnat girlfriend, get some to-go fried rice and then go to the cheapest BBQ joint (not Bono's here in Jax, yuck) spend the rest on by the pound pork or chicken. They go together really well for some reason.

Robyn, I work at River City Brewing Co. If I see a ticket come in w/ a no salt mod on it I will make sure it is good. Keep in mind we are a salt freindly place. Everything is not salty....you know what i mean.

LJ

[FistFullaRoux]

It is kinda like head cheese. All of the scrap parts of the pig, plus some livers, simmered with cornmeal, then formed into loaves, chilled, cut, sometimes breaded or floured, then fried. Usually for breakfast. With maple syrup.

Yum?

Edited September 16, 2004 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[therese]

Actually, scrapple and head cheese and similar products are pretty good. It's the commercial preps that give me the icks. Shades of Sinclair's "The Jungle". Irrational, of course, as I eat sausage and pate and so forth. Something about the decidedly downmarket image and packaging of scrapple, I suppose.

[Holly Moore]

Forgive me being a culinary school graduate and all, but what is scrapple?

In Southern terms, think livermush, then throw in some of that stuff that ends up on the slaugherhouse floor.

[therese]

In Southern terms, think livermush, then throw in some of that stuff that ends up on the slaugherhouse floor. 

←

I've never heard of livermush, actually. Where's it from?

My grandmother made headcheese, but I was comfortable with the provenance of the ingredients (having generally made their acquaintance long before they ended up on the table, though we were careful to not give them names or get too friendly with them) so there wasn't much of mystery meat component to it. Other than the name, of course.

[Holly Moore]

I've never heard of livermush, actually. Where's it from?

I encountered livermush at John's Country Kitchen Charlotte NC.

[phaelon56]

I was in Charlotte this weekend and insisted to my GF that we absolutely must have breakfast at John's Country Kitchen.As it turns out, they stop serving breakfast at about 11:30 AM or so and have only a lunch menu. Ouch. We'll go back there for breakfast some other weekend but the lunch was straight out of the Sysco frozen foods catalog - mediocre at best. That said, it really does look like the bomb for a good country breakfast and we discovered Dish, right around the corner, where we had a very nice dinner late Saturday night.

[Gifted Gourmet]

it really does look like the bomb for a good country breakfast

←

You will tell us after you have tried their breakfasts, I presume!

[robyn]

Forgive me being a culinary school graduate and all, but what is scrapple?

Oh, I can't remember who brought it up, but I have figured out chineese food in the South. If you got less than $15 to feed you and your pregnat girlfriend, get some to-go fried rice and then go to the cheapest BBQ joint (not Bono's here in Jax, yuck) spend the rest on by the pound pork or chicken. They go together really well for some reason.

Robyn, I work at River City Brewing Co. If I see a ticket come in w/ a no salt mod on it I will make sure it is good. Keep in mind we are a salt freindly place. Everything is not salty....you know what i mean.

LJ

←

Sorry about the delay in replying. We were out of town - then catching up.

You have been informed (warned?) [cough-cough] about scrapple. It's not one of my favorites.

Better idea for Chinese - try the buffet place at San Pablo and Beach. It's pretty good (especially for Jacksonville) - and increasingly authentic (lots of things that are hard to identify - like chicken feet). OTOH - the apple pie is good too - Chinese buffets are nothing if not eclectic . Will set you back less than $10 for 2 for lunch (except on Sunday).

We really like River City. Have been going there for years and years (after meeting Steve the Brewer at another restaurant one night - he gave us cards for a couple of free beers and a brewer's tour first time we went - don't know if he's still the Brewmaster). Try to get there at least every month or two. My husband really likes the Porter. And I think the homemade cold smoked salmon is amazing (which is why we really like Sunday brunch - we eat lots of smoked salmon).

You'll have to tell us about the Super Bowl party there next year (I don't think I'll be getting an invitation anytime soon ). Robyn