A week in Paris

[vivin]

I went to Paris for a one-week culinary tour this past week with my wife and one of our best friends (known as Mao on the boards). Here is a summary of what transpired by the way of eating experiences. Detailed reports forthcoming when the baggage arrives ;-).

L’ARPEGE: FOOD CAN BE ART

The meal at L’Arpege was unlike any other experience I have had. The textural aspects and presentation was along the lines of top Japanese kaiseki meals but the myriad spices used (especially cumin) with vegetables highlighted Passard’s talent when combining flavors.

Quote of the day: The food appeals to the intellect as much if not more than the palate.

LUCAS CARTON: FOOD CAN BE VERY GOOD (Just be sure not to eat too much before the meal). Take a beautiful setting at Place de La Madeline and serve food that is good to excellent (my wife has a knack for ordering the best meals). It was better than most French meals in NYC.  Place is a little too formal though.

Qotd: AND WHAT WAS I THINKING BOOKING 2 MEALS IN THE SAME DAY?

ALAIN DUCASSE: THE FOOD RITUAL THAT FOODIES LIVE FOR You want nothing but the best ingredients cooked to perfection? The best service? Amazing wine served by a very knowledgeable sommelier? All in an atmosphere of luxury and unhurried bliss? You want an out of body experience where you feel like royalty? If you have got the funds I would not recommend any other place.

Qotd (in my best French accent): Anything is possible.

NOW WE HAVE BEEN: TAILLEVENT Take well prepared classic French preparations, combine it with the gracious service that only tradition can teach and place it in a venue where you are surrounded by millions of dollars worth of art and you have Taillevent.

Qotd: Now we’ve been.

FOOD CAN BE SURPRISING: LE GRAND VEFOUR: Picture an old restaurant in a historic setting. Chandeliers hung from glass panes on the ceiling, gilded window frames and all, hand painted glass that is profoundly beautiful. After the meal you can walk out on to a courtyard in one of the palaces at the back of the Louvre. Would you expect fillet of turbot with spices like turmeric and coriander? Saute of eggplant to accompany the lamb with cocoa sauce? 8 different flavors in your dessert all dancing on your tongue? Candied olive that is as beautiful as a band blown piece of glass? I did not. Then I went to the Le Grand Vefour.

FOOD CAN BE AMAZINGLY DISAPPOINTING: GUY SAVOY After the religious experience that we had there two years ago, expectations were bound to be sky high. Was it the expectations that let us down? I do not think so. It was the food and the service.

Qotd: Once you are there (in the promised land of the THREE STARS), you just don’t care.

Overall, Le Grand Vefour and Alain Ducasse came out on top. LGV gets the nod for the most innovative food but AD for overall experience. L’Arpege a close third. For more than double the cost and less than half the experience relative to last time, Guy Savoy comes in at fourth while LC and Taillevent were good but not formidable. Was the trip worth it? Absolutely.

[Fat Guy]

Thanks so much for that report, Vivin. I'd love it if you could add some comments to the Arpege thread.

I had similar reactions to you vis-a-vis Ducasse versus Taillevent, though my ultimate assessment of Taillevent was much more negative than yours. I felt that Taillevent stressed the atmospherics above all else and just didn't deliver food worthy of the endeavor. Whereas with Ducasse, I think he's the genuine article: Flawlessness in all things, including first and foremost the food.

[coachboy]

Going to Paris in late June for three nights, then one night upon return to States in July. Arriving on a Sunday, departing on a Saturday. Will be with well behaved 6 year old and wife.

Question: I have perused the board, but am wondering what restaurants people really loved/hated. I went to L'Astrance two years ago and had a superb lunch (also only 140 euros for 2). Taillevent I find stuffy and boring. Generally, I prefer casual bistro type places. I'm not bringing a jacket on my trip. Any food is good. Trendy is OK, if the food's good.

Also, my understanding is many places are closed Sunday. Any recos?

BTW, we are staying at the intercontinental.

Thanks in advance.

Coachboy

[OAKGLEN]

You have chosen our favorite area; tough to get a bad meal here but it is a "dressier" locale FYI. Your wife may love the three course souffle prix-fixe offering at Le Souffle, just down two blocks on Mont-Thabor. "Best ever" sandwiches at Brasserie Flottes, on rue Cambon; we like the Croque Royale and croque provencal. Your six year old may like their Aligot, a mashed potato dish make with garlic and cheese (superb!). L'Ardoise, also on Mont-Thabor, has great food but tables are close together and they like to turn the tables. If you crave a burger go to Cafe Castiglione, just off st Honore. It's our favorite stop for coffee, biere pression etc. On March st. Honore is Le rubis, the most authentic wine bar in the area. Good wines & decent food in a most informal atmosphere. At the far end of Mont-Thabor is a decent English pub (forgot name). Passy Mardarin on rue d'Antin is quite good as well.

[jeunefilleparis]

Firstly, I would like to say that if this falls into one of the other, where should I eat categories, please feel free to link the two. after reading a recent thread I have come to the conclusion that these are the places that I should be selling my soul to eat in:

AD/PA

Astrance

Taillevent

Grand Refour

L'Arpage

L'Ambroisie

A little of my history. I spent a semester living in Paris in college a few years ago. I made it to "Spoon" then. I tended to go towards small cozy cafes or off the beaten track ethnic foods that my French friends took me to. Now that I am so much older and wiser:) I would really love to experience at 3 star restaurant. I dont have an exact budget for my *one* splurger meal but I do want it to be worth it. I came into some extra cash and while I was going to go to Daniel, I realized that Paris was just around the corner, so I figured why not go crazy there.

I dont mind going to those who serve lunch for lunch, but I would rather go for a wonderful dinner. I know that its probably very subjective and clearly everyone has differnet experiences at every restaurant, but with these things in mind, I ll be dining alone, I m not a huge drinker and I guess if I could keep it under $400, can you help me choose a place that I should then attempt to visit.- and if it helps I am fluent in French,,,,,,,,,,,,

Merci en avance

Lauren

oh and if anyone from the France board currently living in Paris would like to meet up one day for a drink, I d love that!

[Felice]

Hi Lauren,

I can't help you with your decision, because I've only been to Astrance, but I would love to join you for a drink in Paris

I saw you mention before that you are from Philadelphia and I am as well, so it would be nice to meet someone from home.

When will you be here? We can see if anyone else would like to join us or you if not just send me a message.

A plus!

[marcus]

I think that you are interested in the very best cuisine, so I would suggest Arpege or Ambroisie. Lunch or dinner in these restaurants is exactly the same, both price and menu. Arpege is somewhat more expensive, last I heard the tasting menu was 320 euros, which is staggering, but you will get to taste Passard's signature dishes and it is a very good survey of his cuisine. Remember that tax and service are included and that there is no need to tip at all. Ambroisie, where the food alone should be in the low 200s, is an extraordinarily difficult reservation for dinner and I doubt that you can get one as a single diner, but lunch is much less crowded and they generally aren't full for Saturday lunch. The menu is strictly a la carte, but I believe that they may be willing to prepare some half portions to let you taste more dishes, otherwise you're dealing with app, main, cheese, desert which is limiting. With regard to wine, you will need to economize, most places have some wines available by the glass or half bottles.

[marcus]

Another thought is to consider the 2 star restaurants at the Crillon or the Meurice. I haven't tried either, but both are up and coming and candidates for 3 stars. Common wisdom is that restaurants are at their very best in the couple of years before they actually receive 3 stars. Both restaurants are reputed to have exceptionally beautiful dining rooms. The chef at the Crillon is Piege who was the chef at ADPA until the end of last year. The chef at the Meurice is Alleno who many consider to be brilliant. Both of these restaurants will be substantially less expensive. There is no doubt that they will leave Daniel in the dust.

[jeunefilleparis]

Yesterday, I called and emailed all of the fore mentioned restaurants. Today I can happily say that I got in to Arpege and DUCASSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think that I am going to go to Ducasse bc when it opened in NY I couldnt wait to go but never did and now that I m going to be in Paris and since Didier, the current chef at ADNY is leaving, I would rather experience Ducasse in PARIS!!!

OH MY GOD!!!!!! ok, i m calm now.

Now the $$ questions, I am not a huge drinker and I m small so a wine pairing is out of the question, I did that at March last year and barely stumbled back home.

Does anyone know how much the prix fixe at AD/PA? I cant wait to experience this!

Lauren

[marcus]

ADPA has a website which is quite complete with menu and prices. However, they have just changed chefs, and despite discussion of the Ducasse system and the interchangeability of chefs, this makes a huge difference, and I haven't seen any new reviews yet. Losing Piege is a non-trivial event, and I would personally follow him to the Crillion at this point in time, as Loufood has done, rather than stick with ADPA. ADPA also has significant service problems and a rather unattractive room.

[Louisa Chu]

Hi Lauren - congratulations! It's so cool that you're so excited!

There are two Menus at ADPA - the Menu Collection at 300 and the Menu Plaisirs de Table at 190 - click La Carte. It's the Spring carte right now - with morels and aspargus.

With the Menu Collection you'll get an amuse bouche of the signature langoustines and caviar; and then demi portions of the scallops and caviar, the lobster, and then the chicken. With the Menu Plaisirs de Table you get to choose three demi portions from the Menu section.

From the dessert menu - I'm really excited to see the last one - with the Guariguette milkshake - fresh French seasonal strawberry milkshake! Last year the patisserie guys got a little cotton candy machine to play with - this one should be fun too.

Have a great time!

[Louisa Chu]

marcus, you know I have to strongly - and vehemently - disagree with you about ADPA. I LOVE the room and the service - I think both are beautifully modernized versions of the classics - but I will agree that I don't get those pictures on either side of the fireplace!

The food - I worked with M. Moret during the transition - and had dinner there when he fully took over - and it is - without a question - SUPERB. And I spoke with both M. Moret AND M. Piege about where I should work - and I know I really can't understand at this point in my life just how unbelievably lucky I was to have that choice - but there were a LOT of factors that led me to the Crillon - not the least of which was M. Moret's blessing - and nudging - to get out into the world and work in another historically great gastronomic kitchen.

I would say of course that for anyone who can - go to both.

[Pan]

Louisa:

Sorry to go on a tangent, but what happened to the stage at El Bulli? You got a real paying job instead? That would be a cause for celebration, indeed!

[tighe]

On my trip to Paris, Astrance was the best meal I had, by a wide margin. That being said, I didn't eat at any of the other places you're considering, but I did go to Gagnaire. The othe thing to keep in mind is that you could eat at Astrance twice for a little more than what a meal at a *** will run you.

Edited April 30, 2004 by tighe (log)

[Louisa Chu]

Let's get back to Lauren's trip!

Edited April 30, 2004 by loufood (log)

[jeunefilleparis]

Thank you all so very much.

I guess now, what i need to think about is which menu to choose. Since I wil be dining alone, I want the menu that will allow me to taste as many different things as possible or at least some of his signature dishes!

Is it black tie formal? Im sure the men wear suits, but how dressy a dress should I wear?

Merci

L

[Louisa Chu]

The only "signature" dish is the langoustines/caviar - all of the other dishes change - but the scallops/caviar/cauliflower puree has stayed for at least three seasonal menus now if I'm remembering right.

It's not black tie/ball-gown dressy - as for how dressy a dress - elegant dressy - or even funky couture dressy. And not all the men wear suits.

[SG-]

Timing of this thread is perfect I'm in the same boat as Lauren, heading over to Paris for the first time as an adult this summer. Got tired of waiting for Per Se to reschedule my reservation!!!

I was initially thinking of Guy Savoy, any thoughts vs the other places mentioned?

[tate]

Eric Frechon at the Bristol is an experience not to be missed. They should have their summer dining room, a gorgeous terrace overlooking the garden, open right about now.

...also, Le Cinq at Georges V (who received the third star that I was so surprised the Bristol didn't get thsi year) is a delight. They, too, have a garden view.

Lucas Carton isn't to be forgotten, either!

So many choices...so little time

[Louisa Chu]

I was initially thinking of Guy Savoy, any thoughts vs the other places mentioned?

Of the restaurants mentioned - Guy Savoy falls somewhere between ADPA and L'Arpege. Have you seen the website? It's pretty comprehensive. Bon voyage.

[degusto]

I agree with what Marcus said about the dining room at ADPA. Indeed it probably takes the price as the most charm lacking dining room of all the three stars not only in France but in Europe.

IMO the top restaurants in Paris are Pierre Gagnaire, Arpege and Ambroisie. Just below this come Les Ambassadeurs and ADPA and possibly le Cinq. I have not been to Ledoyen yet though.

I tried les Ambassadeurs at Crillon a little more than a month ago, a month after Piege took charge of the kitchens. The food I was served here was clearly on a three star level. In my opinion it does not yet reach the level in terms of clarity, definition and overall greatness of what can be found at l’Arpege, l’Ambroisie or at Gagnaire when Gagnaire is on. But it is very well made stuff and it is made with rarely seen pristine raw materials and I would rank it as better than the low tier of the French three stars. Piege is still young and going here may be the most interesting place in Paris right now, as he will be trying very hard to get three stars, for which as far as I am concerned the question is not if he will get them it but rather when. Les Ambassadeurs, which its nice dining room, is currently ranked on a one star level in the Michelin but that has very little with reality, as the second star was lost last year under the management of the former chef Dominique Bouchet. Service at les Ambassadeurs was quite poor though, but I am sure that if it has not changed it will change. Piege has the potential to become the next real super chef of France. It just remains to be seen if he will make it up to that level.

I appreciate the no fuss food made with perfect ingredients at l’Ambroisie served in the most beautiful dining room in the world (the middle room) by very competent staff. Cheeses at l’Ambroisie are not up to snuff though. I also like the minimalist food of Passard with ingenious associations and creative preparations of simple and or luxurious ingredients also always of extremely high quality. I think Ducasse’s food is best had in Monte-Carlo.

The food at les Ambassadeurs is likely to be enjoyed by more people than the food at l’Arpege or at l’Ambroisie.

I have not tried Alleno’s food after he left Les Muses or in fact not after he got two stars there.

As for Lucas Carton I can agree that it has a gorgeous dining room, but it is clearly not the place to go to for the food. A recent meal here just confirmed earlier poor performances. In essence you eat one star food but pay three star prices.

[tony h]

AD/PA

Astrance

Taillevent

Grand Refour

L'Arpage

L'Ambroisie

Replace Grand Vefour & Tallevent with Pierre Gangaire & Leydoyen - much more enjoyable plus Leydoyen is one of the most wonderful rooms anywhere & PG will knock your socks off.

I haven't been to the other 4 (yet) although Astrance seems to be the hardest to get into these days so something must be going right.

[tony h]

I agree with what Marcus said about the dining room at ADPA. Indeed it probably takes the price as the most charm lacking dining room of all the three stars not only in France but in Europe.

no, that award must surley rest with Martin Berasategui - no one, anywhere, comes close.

[jeunefilleparis]

Do to reasons that I can not disclose right now, I have decided NOT to dine at ADPA, i have a table for one this friday at 8pm, I am going to cancel it unless someone else would like to take it. IF i dont hear back on Thurs, by 5pm Paris time i m going to cancel it! Now I get to find a new place to go, i guess i ll go back and read over the thread again!

cheers

lauren

[little ms foodie]

I have to say that my dining experience at Taillevent 3 years ago still tops all dining experiences. From the service (AMAZING) to the food (creative, decadent, original and soooooo tasty!) it was such a perfect evening.

But how can you go wrong with any of the Michelin starred restaurants?