Char Siu

[bobmac]

I wandered in awe through San Francisco's China Town recently. So big, so much variety! The produce was so fresh, and then it occured to me that much of the produce I buy on the East Coast comes from California. Among the things that baffled me, and I didn't ask because if I bought any I had no place to take it, was something that looked like slab bacon and probably was pig belly hanging like those ducks and chickens. And while we're at it, what's with the ducks and chickens? I have this fear unrefrigerated poultry, but these have obviously been cooked to a preserved state. I have a gut feeling they're delicious.

[Jason Perlow]

Thats probably Char Siu, or chinese roast pork. You slice it up and use it in soups, sautees, all kinds of stuff.

[Pan]

Those hanging ducks and chickens are indeed delicious. Where I get an order of the chicken, it's hacked up for me and I'm given some hot sauce and thin-sliced radish (daikon and some carrot) on the side. Look for Soy Sauce Chicken (or Soy Sauce Duck) on the menu.

[herbacidal]

If it looks like slab bacon, I'd guess it's more likely siu yook.

If you buy some, the skin should be crispy, with both pork fat and meat under it.

Best eaten day of purchase.

[origamicrane]

bobmac Posted on Aug 5 2004, 07:25 PM

I have this fear unrefrigerated poultry, but these have obviously been cooked to a preserved state. I have a gut feeling they're delicious. 

don't be scared

all those things hanging in the window would have been freshly cooked that day.

And your gut reaction is right they look delicious and they are delicious

They are hung there as a window display to show how fresh and tasty the food is, if it didn't look good they wouldn't hang it out right?

Hanging allows the meat to cool down as chinese roast meats are usually served cool on a bed of warm rice. Hanging allows more grease to drip off and retains the crispiness of the skin as soon as you put it in a fridge the crispy skin would absorb moisture and become chewy.

like any restaurant food you buy it best eaten asap

[Ben Hong]

Most of the busier restaurants/bbq places have such a high turnover rate, the meat that is hung in the front windows probably gets sold a couple of hours after coming out of the oven. Tell me, how long has your brown bag lunch been packed before it is eaten?

[Dejah]

Most of the busier restaurants/bbq places have such a high turnover rate, the meat that is hung in the front windows probably gets sold  a couple of hours after coming out of the oven.  Tell me, how long has your brown bag lunch been packed before it is eaten?

We have to drive 2.5 hours to Winnipeg to buy our BBQ duck, sui yook, etc. Even tho' we keep everything in a cooler, the smell gets thru' to the nostrils. Do you think we'd leave it untouched until we get home! That's why we keep WetOnes in the car.

[Susan G]

Those crispy roasted ducks hanging by their necks are Beijing kao ya: "Beijing roast duck". They're fabulous!! You order either a half or a whole duck, and the clerk will take down the duck of your choice, chop it into proper-sized bits, ladle some great sauce over it, and give it to you in an aluminum tin..........get some white rice and some hot chili pepper sauce and you've got yourself a feast!!

[hzrt8w]

Those crispy roasted ducks hanging by their necks are Beijing kao ya: "Beijing roast duck". They're fabulous!! You order either a half or a whole duck, and the clerk will take down the duck of your choice, chop it into proper-sized bits, ladle some great sauce over it, and give it to you in an aluminum tin

I think the duck you mentioned is not Beijing Kao Ya (or more well-known as Peking Duck), but Cantonese roast duck. Peking ducks are made to order, therefore would not be hung behind the window. (If they are pre-made and hung behind the window, I wouldn't want them.) Peking ducks are served fresh out of the kitchen. The waiter/waitress/manager would slice the skin off in front of you. Some would take the rest of the duck back to the kitchen. The chef will carve out the rest of the meat and use it to cook a stir-fry dish (typically with some vegetables), and use the bones to make a soup. Customarily Peking Duck skins are eaten wrapped in a thin pancake along with some sliced scallions, cucumbers and a bit of hoisin sauce.

Cantonese roast ducks, on the other hand, are chopped up like you described and customarily served with the roasting liquid (rich in five-spice fragrance) and plum sauce.

[andiesenji]

Those ducks are hung in a sort of smoker and are laquered with a sauce that firms on the surface and actually seals it. They are delicious.

Last summer there was a segment on Food TV with Ming Tsai and his home kitchen. He showed the duck smoker he has right in the kitchen and described the process.

[bobmac]

Tell me, how long has your brown bag lunch been packed before it is eaten?

A very good point and one I try to keep reminding myself of. I'm probably overly cautious when it comes to poultry. A friend has told me she used to hang duck out in open in China (pre-cooking) when preparing Peking duck, but I'm more suspicious of poultry in the US. Jeffrey Steingarten once wrote that the salumi experts that came to NYC from Italy would eat raw pork but not American chicken.

[jo-mel]

When I buy the strips of roast pork (I can smell that aroma, even as I type this!!), I want the whole strip -- not cut up. But there is nothing faster than the hands of the chef. He takes that strip off the hook with one hand,and the other has his cleaver already in the down position --in an instant, it is sliced. I've tried to stop this in my fractured Chinese, but I was using the word 'dao' instead of 'qie', but then again, it may have been Mandarin was not his dialect. Now, I simply use hand motions.

What is Cantonese for 'please, don't slice'?? Can someone help?

As Dejah said -- getting it home is a problem! The first to go are the charred tips. The same as when I make it myself --- those burned edges are addicting!

[Dejah]

What is Cantonese for 'please, don't slice'?? Can someone help?

As Dejah said -- getting it home is a problem! The first to go are the charred tips. The same as when I make it myself --- those burned edges are addicting!

jo-mel:

You can say " Siang tiu" which means in one piece...

or " mm ho tsee" don't cut!

When I buy crispy pork (siu jook) it is really hard to keep all hands off the crispy parts!

[Laksa]

What is Cantonese for 'please, don't slice'?? Can someone help?

As Dejah said -- getting it home is a problem! The first to go are the charred tips. The same as when I make it myself --- those burned edges are addicting!

jo-mel:

You can say " Siang tiu" which means in one piece...

or " mm ho tsee" don't cut!

When I buy crispy pork (siu jook) it is really hard to keep all hands off the crispy parts!

LOL. jo-mel, if you aren't fluent in Cantonese, I would encourage you to check your pronunciation and tone of "siang tiu" with a Cantonese speaker in person before saying it to the meat chef. Mispronouncing the second syllable could get you in trouble.

don't cut or "mo chit" is more innocuous.

How about printing your order and preferences on a piece of paper and handing it to the chef?

Edited August 7, 2004 by Laksa (log)

[Ben Hong]

Mm ho jahm. (don't chop). Siang gow (in one piece) are two other ways.

[hzrt8w]

Perhaps make a print out of this and show it to the BBQ master:

It means "don't cut" in Chinese regardless of dialect.

In Mandarin, the pronounciation is "Bu Yao Qie".

In Cantonese, you can say (I take them from Dejah, Laksa and Ben) "Mm Ho Chit". Not a word for word translation, but the meanings are the same.

Edited August 8, 2004 by hzrt8w (log)

[jo-mel]

You are all so helpful! I will try out the Cantonese pronounciation.

Hzrt-- before I saw your "bu yao qie", I printed out - 請 ---不要切開。謝謝! Both should work.

When I order meat, at the meat counter, I have no problem asking for yi bang niu rou, or liang bang ban pai gu, for instance --- it is just at the BBQ counter that I had trouble. Now I am armed!! Many thanks to all!

[hzrt8w]

Sometimes, I think it would be easier with just a simple big shout of "NO CUT" (or "MMMM CUT"?). It would probably work too.

[herbacidal]

Mm ho jahm. (don't chop). Siang gow (in one piece) are two other ways.

Actually, I think the first one here is the best Cantonese translation.

Although I'd modify it slightly.

"Mmm sai jahm"

Roughly translated "You don't have to chop."

"Jahm" is used more for meat than "tsee" or "chee".

[Transparent]

I'd go with "Mm sai jahm." "Mm ho chit" is pretty awkward and not as fitting for meat as compared to "jahm" as herbacidal said.

[Ben Hong]

Holy Shadings, Batman! Talk about nuances!

"Jahm", to hack or hew or chop is usually meant for an action that signifies a violent motion with a cutting tool, a cleaver in this case. The quick violent action(raising the cleaver) is usually associated with, or needed, to break through some solid impediment, like a bone. One needs to "jahm" roast pork, which usually has bone, or a whole chicken, into pieces.

BUT, one uses "chit" (cantonese), "qie" (mandarin) or "tet" (Toyshanese) to describe a slicing/cutting motion with a knife that one would use in slicing char siu, lop cheung or any softer, boneless article.

So, where are we? If you order a piece of boneless, skinless crispy roast pork (why would you?) from the cleaver man, he will chit, tet, or qie the meat for you into bitesized pieces. But if you are a real connoisseur and order the rib or belly pieces( with bone), he will "jahm" it into the same sized morsels.

Edited August 9, 2004 by Ben Hong (log)

[hzrt8w]

Guys, let's teach (or confuse) aunt jo-mel some more, shall we?

There is a small difference between "Mm sai" and "Mm ho".

"Mm sai" means "not necessary", it's a passive no. In Mandarin, it is 不用 [bu4 Yong4]

"Mm ho" means "Don't", it's a more forceful no. In Mandarin, it's 不要 [bu4 Yao4].

"Jahm" means chop. In Mandarin, it's 斩 [Zhan3].

"Tsee, chee, chit" means cut. In Mandarin, it's 切 [Qie1].

So, it's up to jo-mel to use the different phrases according to the situation.

不用斩 "Mm Sai Jahm" (no need to chop) [bu4 Yong4 Zhan3]

不要斩 "Mm Ho Jahm" (don't chop) [bu4 Yao4 Zhan3]

不用切 "Mm Sai Chit" (no need to cut) [bu4 Yong4 Qie1]

不要切 "Mm Ho Chit" (don't cut) [bu4 Yao4 Qie1]

[Laksa]

不要切  "Mm Ho Chit"  (don't cut)  [bu4 Yao4 Qie1]

Doesn't "mm ho" when spoken in that context sound more like "moh" (one syllable)? I'm not a native Cantonese speaker, but just commenting from personal observations. On the other hand, 不好 to my ear is distinctly two syllables, "mm ho", or "pak ho".

Edited August 9, 2004 by Laksa (log)

[Dejah]

"Jahm" means chop.  In Mandarin, it's 斩 [Zhan3].

This reminds me of one of the more repeatable phrases my cooks used to use all the time:

Jahm ah nai gaw taow!

CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!

[hzrt8w]

Doesn't "mm ho" when spoken in that context sound more like "moh" (one syllable)? ..... 不好 to my ear is distinctly two syllables, "mm ho", or "pak ho".

Well... there is an example of anomaly of Cantonese from standard "official" Mandarin-based Chinese.

You are right about the single syllable pronounciation and there are 2 situations:

1. Moh as a fast spoken version for "Mm Ho". Kind of like "gonna -> going to", gotta -> got to", "kinda -> kind of", etc..

2. Actually in Cantonese there is a distinct word Moh, which is the exact opposite of 有 (Yau). It is written as 有 without the 2 horizontal strokes in the middle. This is not recognized by official Mandarin. In Mandarin, you always have to say 没有 [mei2 you3] as two distinct words. In Cantonese, we married them and formed "Moh". But Moh should be an adjective, means "have not", and shouldn't be used in conjunction with a verb. (Well, people do it anyway).

The word on the left is Yau (means have or yes), the one on the right is Moh (means have not or no).

不好 is the official language saying "don't". In Cantonese it's always said as "Mm Ho". If you say "Pak Ho" (or "Buk Ho"), people for sure know you are not a native Cantonese speaker.