Gordon Ramsay Royal Hospital Road

[Bapi]

Thanks for that Matt.

I would reassure all that no matter whether one thinks the ingredients sometimes sound a smidgen peculiar at Hibiscus; what is actually served up on the plate is far from so. Creative and intelligently thought out- yes. Thrown together on a whim in a steaming cauldron - no. I think Kutsu and his better half would have a fabulous meal at either establishment but having never eaten at RHR I can only really comment on Hibiscus.

But Matt - what the hell did you have to mention -Duo of Cornish Razor Clams stuffed with Chicken Kidney & Gingerbread Butter, Creamy Veloute of White Onion & Menton Lemon for ? How on earth am I going to get through to lunchtime now thinking about that veloute?

Edited April 21, 2005 by Bapi (log)

[Matthew Grant]

I'm already looking up B&B's in Ludlow!

[Gary Marshall]

and don't forget hibiscus foie gras ice cream!

I agree with matt about working up, and another factor to bear in mind is that, despite what michelin tell us, 3* are not all about the food, in my experience.

so you are paying for that 2 inch wine list stuffed with the finest vintages but if you're not drinking them, you'd be better off somewhere else that is really focussing on the food, same with the service where you're not going to notice what you're paying for such as constant attention, and i'm not taking the p*ss - but things like sauce spoons and riedels, sommeliers etc.

from my experience which was 1 stars in france, then UK, then 2* winteringham fields to a hell of a disappointment at 3* boyer les crayeres in reims i say work your way up, and also that don't expect a 3* to be the complete epiphany of dining as i've had more memorable meals in lower ranked restaurants than i've ever had in 3*. (however i've not been to pierre gagnaire yet and that's probably the excpetion!).

if you want to jump straight in, it's your money and i'm sure you'll enjoy it but you'd find something like claridges would give a feel for what the experience is about without making such a dent (that's assuming you want to try the ramsay experience).

cheers

gary

[Bapi]

if you want to jump straight in, it's your money and i'm sure you'll enjoy it but you'd find something like claridges would give a feel for what the experience is about without making such a dent (that's assuming you want to try the ramsay experience).

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Come on Gary- not Claridges surely.? I had a very, very average meal there last year. Service was very good- but the food was far from so. One doesn't expect stringy scallops at £65 a head.

[Gary Marshall]

like claridges would give a feel for what the experience is about without making such a dent (that's assuming you want to try the ramsay experience).

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why you no read!

obviously i only go when i'm on the chefs table mind!

it is indicative of the ramsay style is what i'm saying, not that it's the best one star in town.

Edited April 21, 2005 by Gary Marshall (log)

[Jon Tseng]

to 2* rather than 3*?

Note that how much you enjoy a meal has nothing to do with how good it is, but everything to do with how good it is versus your prior expectations. ie a mediocre *** meal in London would be far more dispiriting than finding a decent local with honest well-cooked food in the middle of an industrial wasteland (let us assume, for the sake of this discussion, Up North).

The problem with applying this to ***'s is that you are basically already pricing in perfection (or pretty damn close). That doesn't leave much space for the joint to outperform expectations on the upside, but plenty of room for it to disappoint on the downside...

Best place to go is always a ** gunning for ***.

J

[Bapi]

like claridges would give a feel for what the experience is about without making such a dent (that's assuming you want to try the ramsay experience).

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why you no read!

obviously i only go when i'm on the chefs table mind!

it is indicative of the ramsay style is what i'm saying, not that it's the best one star in town.

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I know you weren't saying that it was the best 1* star in London you steaming tart. I just wouldn't recommend and of the Ramsay- Lite places, especially as they charge full on prices. But if there was any danger of him actually cooking in any of his places - that might be a different matter.

Re- The Chef's table - would that be a table for three then Sir?

[Winot]

from my experience which was 1 stars in france, then UK, then 2* winteringham fields to a hell of a disappointment at 3* boyer les crayeres in reims i say work your way up, and also that don't expect a 3* to be the complete epiphany of dining as i've had more memorable meals in lower ranked restaurants  than i've ever had in 3*. (however i've not been to pierre gagnaire yet and that's probably the excpetion!).

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I had a similar experience with one of my favourite meals ever at Astrance in Paris (*) then a really disappointing experience at Les Jardins des Sens in Montpellier (***).

However, isn't this really about the arguable flaw of the Michelin grading method rather than anything about the relative experience of the diner?

[kutsu]

Thanks for all the great information guys, this is a really good discussion. I think I'm starting to lean towards the idea of working up, and yes I was asking the other half about B&B in and around Birmingham, and area I've not been to, but an area with seemingly an active attempt to gain food recognition. Or heck, even leeds or somewhere like that.

Glad to hear that if I ever DID decide to go 3*, I wouldn't be made to feel unwelcome on account of the whole age thing.

x

[BertieWooster]

Sure we'd be happy to have you in Leeds!

Though Ludlow is a really good place to try and understand, and get completely frustrated, with the whole Michelin thing. There's Hibiscus which is tip-top and rather wonderful. Then Dinham and Overton which aren't starred but are very good of their type, and are far, far, better than many places elsewhere that ARE starred. And then there's MR Underhill's which IS starred, but on the one time I can comment on, is bleedin awful (and before I get jumped on, YMMV). The full gamut, leaving you with lots to talk and moan about at the end of a couple of days.

ANd I'm double damn sure RHR wouldn't mistreat you because of age. The staff are stars.

[SamanthaF]

I'm already looking up B&B's in Ludlow!

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Mirrabeau Guest House - Can't be beaten. £25.00 B&B per night.

Chap that owns it used to be a chef you know . The chaps a legend in Ludlow - ask Claire Bosi or Shaun Hill.

[Almass]

Hummm, working one's way up the ladder!!!

1 star, then 2 stars and later 3 stars.

Now where did I read that? And in which gastronomic bible?

It does not make a difference as to where you begin. It is all a matter of enjoying the culinary voyage et all levels.

Let us be frank here. How many of the members know the difference between a Roc de Cambes and a Certan-de-May and do you really need to know the difference to qualify you to eat at a 3 star establishment?

It is all about experience et joie de vivre.

The food served at most restaurants is an eclectic display of the Chef prouesse and hence there is no taste memory to judge whether a particular dish is correctly cooked or not. Had we been talking about the eternally rehearsed Canetton a l'Orange, then you would need to appeal to previous well established memory to judge this dish. But with the new restaurants, all what you can say is whether the dish is well presented and taste nice! That's about it.

So go ahead and book at a 3 star after all you are the customer and not the pupil.

[Gary Marshall]

Hummm, working one's way up the ladder!!!

1 star, then 2 stars and later 3 stars.

Now where did I read that? And in which gastronomic bible?

It does not make a difference as to where you begin. It is all a matter of enjoying the culinary voyage et all levels.

Let us be frank here. How many of the members know the difference between a Roc de Cambes and a Certan-de-May and do you really need to know the difference to qualify you to eat at a 3 star establishment?

no taste memory to judge whether a particular dish is correctly cooked or not.

So go ahead and book at a 3 star after all you are the customer and not the pupil.

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you read it here. i think it is good advice.

no, it doesn't make a difference, but might avoid expensive disappointments, nervousness over formal service etc.

no, you don't need to know your bordeaux's from your clarets but you're paying for the cellar and not likely to be able to take advantage of it.

so i can't tell if a piece of fish is over or under cooked unless i've had it before? interesting.

agreed, if that's what you want to do and exactly what i and others said, but there may be a better way.

gary

ps if only i could multi quote i could be much more argumentative haha!

[Andy Lynes]

I built up gradually to 3 star dining, but that was because I was starting from a baseline of complete ignorance. In my very late teens, early twenties, my girlfriend (now wife) started suggesting that we might do something else together apart from go to pubs and gigs and almost had to drag me to our first date at a restaurant.

As I developed an interest in cooking, I began to realise that there was almost certainly better food to be had than we were getting at the time in Portsmouth, and so we started to travel to London, initially using a Time Out general guide to London to choose our destinations.

I then somehow stumbled across The Good Food Guide and Kit Chapman's great Chefs Of Britian and in particular a 3 page spread on Conran's Le Pont De La Tour restaurant in Elle magazine (imagine something like that appearing in a women's magazine these days) and realised I needed to eat in these amazing restaruants I was reading about.

I'm glad I built up to the top level. As an unsophisticated working class Pompey lad in my 20's, it was useful to build up some confidence and experience of fine dinning before finally passing through Marco, Nico and Ramsay's doors. I appreciated those meals all the more for having some understanding of why they merited the accolades showered upon them.

[Matthew Grant]

I agree with Andy. I didn't ever say that the 3 star wouldn't be enjoyed, on the contrary. What I do believe is that the experience will be better appreciated with more experience.

[Gareth]

And I am in the Almass/Gary camp squaring off against Matthew and Andy !

All this working up the ladder to refine your understanding stuff assumes:

- you have the interest, energy and disposition to approach things so academically;

- you have the money and opportunities to do it; and (the clincher IMHO)

- you don't get run over by a Number 37 Bus next week never having tasted the fois gras and sweet and sour rhurbarb we enjoyed at Ramsay's last month.

"Gather Ye Canapes While Ye May", say I. If it was Ramsay's that fired your interest go to Ramsay's - you can backfill One and Two Stars and catch up on your homework later if you like and as opportunity presents.

Also, sod worries about intimidatory service: the staff at RHR are friendly and will make you feel like a million dollars; and on the wine front what I do is advise the sommelier as to my budget and ask him to recommend (he will have already been told what you have each ordered...)

[Gary Marshall]

And I am in the Almass/Gary camp squaring off against Matthew and Andy !

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err, i agree with matt and andy, gareth.

cheers

gary

[Gareth]

Oh bugger. Gary, may I congratulate you on your attention to detail but commiserate you on aligning yourself with what is clearly the flawed side of the debate...

[tomcbell]

Some of you may remember an earlier post of mine in which I asked for guidance on whether to go for the Menu Prestige or the A La Carte at GR@RHR. The advice was duly and gratefully noted, and the former was chosen. Yesterday was the day, and here are some photos of what was consumed, with descriptions and my (extremely amateur) thoughts.

Amuse Bouche - Langoustine, caviar, horseradish cream, baked potato jelly, new potato and craime fraiche, potato and bacon 'wafer' [my term]

Excellent start - the contrasting and varied flavours all worked together, with the baked potato jelly adding a bit of molecular gastronomy to the meal.

Mosaique of foie gras with Peking style duck

I didn't have much of this, mainly because I don't really get what is so amazing about foie gras, the texture being more appealing that the flavour. The duck was like a refined version of the crispy duck you get at Chinese restaurants.

(Alternative to foie gras) Pig's trotter pressed with something else [i forgot what], and a 'muffin' with quail's egg, cheese, ham, with hollandaise and some other sauce

I found this to be a bit too rich, the terrine consisting effectively of pork and fat. The 'croque monsieur' next to it was also rich, making this course altogether a bit heavy for my liking.

Scottish lobster, chicken and baby gem lettuce with Caesar dressing

I had a taste of this. The chicken had an amazing texture - very smooth and processed, but tasting nice. The lobster was, well, lobster - nothing more, nothing less. I'm not too sure about this course, to be honest - its playful take on the Chicken Caesar Salad not really translating into an effective haute cuisine dish.

(Alternative to lobster) Hind dived scallops from the Isle of Skye with truffles and a truffle vinaigrette

The scallops were divine - firm, salty, delicious. The truffles and the truffle vinaigrette were a bit overpowering, and I felt that I had to eat the scallops separately in order to appreciate their flavour, thus leaving me with a bit too much sauce to mop up at the end. Perhaps, like foie gras, I am yet to appreciate truffles.

Pan fried fillet of turbot, watermelon and citrus velouté

This was one of my favourite dishes of the meal. The turbot was fresh and meaty (although perhaps a bit overcooked), the sauce was rich yet fresh with the citrus, and the watermelon (which was cooked; located below the fish) was a perfect antidote to the butter.

(Alternative to turbot) Pan fried fillet of sea bass with a cep sauce, celeriac puree and artichoke

Unfortunately this had a pin bone in it, although fortunately my mother found it before swallowing it. Not a huge problem, although given Ramsay's perfectionism (evident for example in his Kitchen Nightmares program), and amount of money paid for the meal, an annoyance. The fish was again beautiful, although I'm not sure it went all that well with the rather strong mushroom sauce.

Roasted fillet of Angus beef with braised cheeks and Barolo sauce

The beef was incredibly tender and flavoursome. The sauce was too salty in my opinion, meaning that the Barolo was indiscernible. The cheeks were flavoured with Anise or five-spice, providing an interesting flavour but not one that I felt necessarily worked with the overall dish. The mash (sorry, 'pomme puree') was very rich and buttery, so it was lucky that only a small amount was served. The truffle served on top of the cheek was redundant.

[Another complaint - my sister asked for her meat medium (as opposed to medium rare), but if anything her meat was less cooked than my own which was medium rare. She didn't mind, but this error was something that I don't expect in a 3 Star establishment.]

(Alternative to beef) Cannon of Cornish lamb with confit shoulder and thyme jus

I tried one sliver of the lamb, which was perfectly cooked. The confit shoulder was interesting - a bit like a lamb 'fritter' - but not out of this world. The tomatoes (confit?) were deliciously sweet and refreshing. The sauce was nice, but perhaps a little shy in flavour.

Pre Dessert - Coriander creme brulee with cherries [the image is of the copper pot in which this was served; I ate it before remembering to take the photo!]

The creme was very light and refreshing, and the coriander provided an interesting flavour. The cherries at the bottom were very pleasant, and the shortbread (a little of which is visible in the photo) was delicious.

Creamed strawberries with Champagne and coriander

Amazing - it was like tasting the best strawberry milkshake you've ever had. Drinking the final drops through the glass straw made a slurpy sound that made one feel somewhat self-conscious in a restaurant that was otherwise quiet!

Bitter chocolate parfait with blueberry compote

By this stage we were all feeling full, but not overly so. After this course, we were tipped over the edge! The presentation was amazing - the strawberry 'comb' on display being the highlight. The parfait was not too dark, which suits my taste. The blueberry compote was nicely acidic and not too sweet.

Strawberry ice cream and white chocolate balls

Similar strawberry flavour to the 'milkshake' - very enjoyable sweet.

Cherries

A nice way to cut against the richness and fullness.

Overall - an extraordinary meal, with only minor flaws which did not detract from it overall. Any lack of enjoyment I felt was due more to my own tastes than to faults of the kitchen. The only comparable meal I've had previously (the set lunch I had here last year being notably inferior) was at Le Manoir. That was very different in style, feeling fresher, lighter and more focussed on produce than ideas / precision.

Edited August 2, 2005 by tomcbell (log)

[Almass]

Very, very nice pictures. I am not a big fan of ramsey but sure like your pictures and especially this one where you have lost the plate. Nice!:

Roasted fillet of Angus beef with braised cheeks and Barolo sauce

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Can you advise camera details?

I assume no flash and digital camera. Any aperture/speed/ISO?

Any reaction from the MaitreD'?

[tomcbell]

Very, very nice pictures. I am not a big fan of ramsey but  sure like your pictures and especially this one where you have lost the plate. Nice!:

Roasted fillet of Angus beef with braised cheeks and Barolo sauce

←

Can you advise camera details?

I assume no flash and digital camera. Any aperture/speed/ISO?

Any reaction from the MaitreD'?

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Sony DSC-P10, no flash (we were sitting near a window anyway). Speed and ISO normal settings. I used close-up mode to get focussing just right. If you think these photos are nice, you should see them in full sized, uncompressed 5megapixel glory.

No comment from the maitre d'; I don't see how he could mind considering the camera was silent and there was no flash.

Edited August 2, 2005 by tomcbell (log)

[Matthew Grant]

Interesting to see the cherries back on at the end of the meal, this is an ol Ramsay trait, one he got from Robuchon (I think)

[Andy Lynes]

Food looks great, although I find the amount of squeezy bottle action quite surprising.

(BTW - Its RamsAy.)

[MobyP]

Superb pics. Anyone else think his style of plating has - with a few exceptions - changed rather radically?

[tomcbell]

Superb pics. Anyone else think his style of plating has - with a few exceptions - changed rather radically?

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It has certainly changed from the pictures on tastingmenu.com's review. One thing that I found a little odd and unnecessary was the use of thick glazes to add borders. I wonder how these are made - are they merely very reduced stocks?