Espresso Comes After....

[cinghiale]

Imagine a straightforward meal: anti, primo, secondo. Now that you've finished, you're considering the following: (i) dessert, (ii) dessert wine, (iii) grappa, and (iv) espresso [also (v) cigarette(s)]. Is there a customary order here? That is, do Italians take their coffee after dessert, as is the case in the U.S.? Would grappa generally be the parting shot or consumed earlier? Is the wine usually taken together with the dessert?

[hathor]

That's a whole lot of questions! The only one I can answer with certainty: coffee after desert.

With less certainty:

desert wine with desert

cigarettes whenever they feel like it... seems as if they all smoke like chimneys!

grappa usually shows up just when you think you can't drink or eat one more drop...and then you get the 'but you've never had good grappa' speech....

and then you wind up in some stranger's swimming pool....ah, but, that is another story!

[Ore]

Ciao,

I have one of those stories too!

Coffee after dessert -

Dessert wine as dessert or with dessert - grappa in a few instances towards the end of the dessert or before the coffee. In the nicer places the coffee is usually served with a few sweets though - to kinda wash that coffee taste away when it is late at night - Uliassia and Madonina are two great examples!

Ciao,

Ore

[Craig Camp]

grappa would be the parting shot (so to speak)

[Dan Ryan]

Now would be a good time to mention caffe corretto, or the Veronese habit of rinsing out the espresso cup with grappa. Both good.

[hathor]

Now would be a good time to mention caffe corretto, or the Veronese habit of rinsing out the espresso cup with grappa. Both good.

Now that sounds like a reason to go to Verona!!

[cinghiale]

Ya see, if the meal were particularly filling, I'd do the grappa first. Then, maybe a coffee and smoke. Pause. Dessert + wine -- though the spirits/caffeine/nicotine could significantly impair the enjoyment of any delicate dessert wine. Maybe a second espresso after dessert. It's sort of a dessert-as-postscript approach. It's somewhat confusing when, after finishing the main course, you're asked if you'd like coffee-dessert-grappa without any discernible sequence. On more than one occasion, I've ordered grappa post-meal, and the waiter brought the bottle and left it on the table. After, well, several grappas, I'm in the mood for dessert and maybe a glass of wine. I just wondered if that would be viewed as weird or gauche by the locals.

[rancho_gordo]

My Italian friends were fairly loose except they always said, "Sopratutto- Il cafe!"

[albiston]

On more than one occasion, I've ordered grappa post-meal, and the waiter brought the bottle and left it on the table.  After, well, several grappas, I'm in the mood for dessert and maybe a glass of wine.  I just wondered if that would be viewed as weird or gauche by the locals.

I would, like other Italians, find it indeed a bit weird but apart maybe a rised eyebrow I doubt anyone would say anything. Anyway, not as bad as ordering a cappuccino at the end of the meal .

It has to do with the fact that grappa and other spirits are considered "digestivi", digestion helpers, which should therefore be served after the food.

[katiaANDronald]

I can't vouch for the rest of Italy but in Sicily the limoncello (rather than grappa) is left at the very end (after the coffee) precisely because it is meant to be (as albiston notes) a digestivo. Coffee is after sweets and coffee after lunch is NEVER anything but a plain ristretto... Katia sometimes likes a machiato and even that is frowned on - if you order a capucinno then you are just plain mad :-)

[Alexander Forryan]

Thank God, other people have "...and I ended upin a strangers' swimming pool" Grappa-related stories.

Grappa always seems to come last, then again...and then again!

[Bux]

That is, do Italians take their coffee after dessert, as is the case in the U.S.?

That's very odd as I've always thought Americans take their coffee with dessert--that is those who don't drink coffee straight through the meal. The worst of it is that I've been asked in some of the best restaurants in NY, for my coffee order when my dessert order is taken, or even before. Even four star (NY Times rated) French restaurants in NY have taken to expecting a coffee order with dessert.

[slkinsey]

That's very odd as I've always thought Americans take their coffee with dessert--that is those who don't drink coffee straight through the meal.

Interesting. I wonder if this isn't reflective primarily of Americans of a certain generation. I've heard about it, generally from people roughly in my parents' generation, but have never known anyone to drink coffee throughout dinner.

[CheGuevara]

That is, do Italians take their coffee after dessert, as is the case in the U.S.?

That's very odd as I've always thought Americans take their coffee with dessert--that is those who don't drink coffee straight through the meal. The worst of it is that I've been asked in some of the best restaurants in NY, for my coffee order when my dessert order is taken, or even before. Even four star (NY Times rated) French restaurants in NY have taken to expecting a coffee order with dessert.

you're very right - in the US they do take coffee with dessert - usually it even comes before.

in italy, coffee comes after, always. and grappa, limoncello, mirto - any digestivo comes at the end. if it weren't the end, you'd still be on wine or beer.

-che

[Adam Balic]

Grappa I can drink until the cows come home, unless in involves one of these.

When these are involved I notice that even Italian etiquette is quickly abandoned.

edit: image removed due to copywrite issues. Will provide a link for those interested in the Grolla.

Edited August 12, 2004 by Adam Balic (log)

[hathor]

Grappa I can drink until the cows come home, unless in involves one of these.

(image removed)

When these are involved I notice that even Italian etiquette is quickly abandoned.

ok, I'll bite..what are they?? hookahs??

Edited August 12, 2004 by Craig Camp (log)

[Adam Balic]

They are from Valle d'Aosta and ae called "Grolla", big carved wooden bowls with lids. You drink from the spout and pass it to the next person etc then back to you eventually (hence also called a friendship cup). The mixture in the Grolla varies but the versions I have had contains strong coffee, grappa (and/or some other alpine booze), sugar, orange peel and cinnamon sticks. Basically a hugh hit of caffeine, alcohol and sugar, resulting in a primative form of being stoned out of your skull.

Edited August 11, 2004 by Adam Balic (log)

[bergerka]

Interesting. I wonder if this isn't reflective primarily of Americans of a certain generation. I've heard about it, generally from people roughly in my parents' generation, but have never known anyone to drink coffee throughout dinner.

I have actually encountered this, at my ex-in-laws' in way southwest Kansas (Elkhart. Where? Elkhart. No, not Elkhart Indiana). I also noticed it at the little restaurant there and, not infrequently, at the restaurants and at meals I was invited to in homes in Vinton, Iowa. I actually did ask about it in Vinton and was told that it seems to be a middle-of-the-country farming community tradition, but no one really knew why.

K

[Mayhaw Man]

Basically a huge hit of caffeine, alcohol and sugar

You can live on this for years. I have done it. The Italians are clearly an old and civilized people.

It beats the Atkins Diet by a mile, but the long term effects can be a bit rough.

[hathor]

They are from Valle d'Aosta and ae called "Grolla", big carved wooden bowls with lids. You drink from the spout and pass it to the next person etc then back to you eventually (hence also called a friendship cup). The mixture in the Grolla varies but the versions I have had contains strong coffee, grappa (and/or some other alpine booze), sugar, orange peel and cinnamon sticks. Basically a hugh hit of caffeine, alcohol and sugar, resulting in a primative form of being stoned out of your skull.

What a great reason to go to Valle d'Aosta!!! I love that idea!!