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Steve Plotnicki

British Restaurants Outside of Britain

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Sorry, Steve, if you got your knickers in a twist in anticipation of a great meal serving British food in New York.  Unfortunately, I cannot (much as I’d like to) entertain a duel, because at no point did I say there was a good restaurant of this sort in this fine city. Sad, but true. That said, I would describe Craft and Craftbar as serving food that somewhat resembles British traditional food—liver and onions, plainly braised and roasted meats, sticky desserts. However, I’m led to understand that Colicchio describes his cooking as American with Italian influences.

So too bad. It's not to be.  :sad:

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Yvonne-How did you know I like my knickers twisting? :biggrin:

It is kind of you to acknowledge what we have known all along. But save it to say, it wouldn't have mattered if we were in England.  Although obviously there would have been more choice, on review the choices wouldn't have been so appealing to you. I actually once in my lifetime, in response to a Chairman of a major U.K. recording company who was wining and dining me to try and make a deal for one of my acts, answered his question of what I would like for dinner by saying "Let's go to an English restaurant." And I must say, that he had a hard time finding one he thought would be any good. And we ended up in some place on the Fulham Road that was decent but mediocre at best. A hair (or hare) over pub food in my estimation. It was a shame because I would actually like to have a proper English meal that is actually good. Maybe one day. I will have to take a meal at St. John on my next visit.

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Cue list of restaurants serving British food in London:

Alfred (Shaftesbury Ave)

City Rhodes

Rhodes in the Square

Quality Chop House

Butlers Wharf Chop House

St.John

Rules

Smiths of Smithfield

Dorchester Grill Room

Savoy Grill Room

Lindsay House

Boisdale

Green's

Wilton's

Sweetings

J.Sheekey's

Rudland & Stubbs

Ransome's Dock

The Salt House

The Ivy (yes,The Ivy)

Loch Fyne Restaurants

The Atlantic

Veronica's

Maggie Jones

Chimes

Simpson's in the Strand (Breakfast)

The Guinea Grill

I'm not vouching for the standard and quality in all these places.Merely pointing out that there's enough there to keep a curious and open minded American tourist engaged for some considerable time

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Tony-That's a current list. The dinner I was talking about happened nearly a dozen years ago. But I used to like The Quality Chop House very much. Is it still good? And The Ivy and J. Sheekey are fine too. But their main appeal is people watching more than food don't you think? Alfred's, any good? And Gary Rhodes is truly a Modern British chef. I've never eaten in his restaurants but from watching him on TV I would venture a guess that he would be the one to create an updated version of those old British standards.

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I remember seeing Rhodes do an updated bangers and mash, actually, on some television show.  :wink:


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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Mr. Tony Finch,

If you go to any restaurants in your exhaustive list of those serving British food, you will occasionally see a few people with a pained, suffering look. A little bit like you see on the faces of well-bred people in a crowded lift when somebody's just let go some wind.

Those are the Europeans, wondering what to make of this frightfully expensive bilge on their plate.

You should just face up to it, Britain is the unsophisticated country bumpkin amongst the aristocrats of Europe. Lafite versus Greene King?

When you stop exporting your exquisitely well bred lager louts, we might begin to take you seriously.

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So you don't like British food. That's okay. But 'bilge'? You're not really fostering debate are you?

Greene King vs Lafite: One does what one can with the materials available. Have you ever tried making red wine with wheat?

And what exactly do lager louts have to do with this discussion?

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Cabrales-good effort but don't give up the day job.

Wilfrid & Tony -- Like my prior contribution, the effort below is technically problematic, but here goes:

There was an Aussie called Balic

      Who simmers wild boar in sauces rich

      He has a PHD

      And writes for all, you see

      Stupendous posts without a glitch  :wink:

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Tony-That's a current list.

At a rough count, around half of the restaurants on Tony's list have been around for a dozen years, and some of them have been around forever.  Don't tell me, Steve, that's not what you meant by "current".

Tutti frutti, I am guessing your an American.  Are you prepared to reveal your origins more specifically so that I can insult them effectively?

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Wilfrid, it seems obvious to me that Tutti Frutti is Steve P's alter ego when he's on the road. Surely no two human beings on the planet could share these views :wow:

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Wilfrid-I guess when you are a philosopher "current" can be describing eons. But fortunately I use the common version of the word which means *today.* And I didn't say *I* had trouble finding an English restaurant. I said this Chairman did. And I didn't say many of those restaurants didn't exist 12 years ago. In fact I didn't criticize the list at all.

There once was a man named Wilfrid

He ate pies after tasting he still did

All your words he does parse

A big pain in the arse

Is he really a woman named Mildrid

I apologize to all the women reading this but there are a severe shortage of words that rhyme with Wilfrid :smile:. But I know Tony and Andy are laughing right now.

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Again technically corrupt attempts:

There was once a man named Plotnicki

  'No ostrich egg', said he, 'too sticky'

  Haut Brion and Lafite

  This man daily do greet

  'With French wine, I'm not too picky'

There was once a sage called Wilfrid

  'A guinea pig right now,' he said

  'Give me, ooh, a small bird

  I cannot take bean curd

  Rare rodents, for 'er I put to bed'

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I thought it was quite clear that tutti-frutti was Mr. P's troll.

That's why on Page 6, I called it "tutti-frutti" and then later: "Steve P, um, I mean, 'tutti-frutti'."

The fundamental rule for dealing with trolls who are flame-baiting is:

Ignore the troll.


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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Jinmyo-No I'm not tutti-frutti but good try. I never disguise my participation. And I always announce a troll as such either in the header or first few sentences of the post itself.

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I never disguise my participation.

In any case, tutti-frutti is not contributing but simply flame-baiting. Ignore the troll. Unless you enjoy that kind of thing.  :wink:


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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Whats a troll?

I am certainly not baiting anyone. I thought I would supplement Steve's argument.

Can Britain really show anything close to the sophistication of Bordeaux, Burgundy, foie gras, cassoulet? Olive oil, pasta, sun burst tomatoes, fresh, varied seafood? Elegant, complex, wonderful seasoning?

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Even if you ignore tutti-frutti's request, what is a troll? And what is flame-baiting?

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cabrales, therre can be "good" trolls and "bad" trolls, depending upon their intentions and the effect their behaivour has upon others. They "troll" discussion groups, looking for people who will rise to their "bait" and engage in "flaming", which is rude and pointless argumentation.

As I am not a moderator or admin on this board, I'll say nothing further on this topic and leave it all up to them.


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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Bordeaux, Burgundy - where are you growing your British grapes? Beer is what you want, mate.

Olive oil is just the indigineous fat - so that equates to lard.

Foie gras is just animal fat - so lard again.

Cassoulet - sophisticated? Beans - cooked in animal fat (lard).

Or if gratinated it becomes pie.

The seafood is there - but so much better in fishfinger format.

Deep fried in Lard.


Wilma squawks no more

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Jinmyo-I wouldn't consider tutti-frutti's posts as trolls. Droll might be more like it  :smile:  :smile:. He justs writes in a style that expresses disbelief that some writers who normally have their wits about what tastes good and what tastes bad seem to have lost their sense of balance when discussing this topic.

Did I get that right tutti-frutti?

I have to admit, I am amazed myself. We Americans are quick to admit the failings of our culinary history yet the Brits are slow at it despite the fact that we share the same culinary tradition. Neither of us has a Brillat-Savarin or Artusi to point to. It's not a matter of sheer coincidence. But for some reason I can admit to that and the Brits keep trying to deny it. I really don't know why.

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We Americans are quick to admit the failings of our culinary history yet the Brits are slow at it despite the fact that we share the same culinary tradition. Neither of us has a Brillat-Savarin or Artusi to point to. It's not a matter of sheer coincidence. But for some reason I can admit to that and the Brits keep trying to deny it. I really don't know why.

Stevie P, dear, no one has denied it except jokingly. There is however some objection to denigrating and exaggerating all of the culinary traditions and British product across the board.

Again, as I have pointed out, I see agreement with your basic premise.  :wink:


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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Steve, I never expressed an opinion on whether you or some Chairman had trouble finding a restaurant or not.  I was just trying to parse what you meant by:  "Tony-That's a current list. The dinner I was talking about happened nearly a dozen years ago."  Which seemed a daft remark given that half the restaurants on the list were around a dozen years ago.  

Steve, if you think I've been denying that there have long been many problems with British cuisine, you must be reading my posts somewhat selectively - whether deliberately or not, who knows?

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Right on, Steve!

I am still struggling to believe that anyone other than Steve would say such a thing  :wow:

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A grouchy old git called Plotniki

             Ate game pie then felt a bit sicky

             He decided to parse

             Much wind through his arse

             Then sighed and thought "That did the tricky"

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