What are egg rolls?

[Dejah]

Have you ever tried frying a roll wrapped with the thicker egg roll wrapper without egg washing it? It just doesn't look or taste right.

I don't know how many egg rolls I fried in all my years in the restaurant biz, but the only egg wash I ever used was to seal the ends of each roll. Each one still bubbled and was crispy.

I will have to try the egg wash to check out the difference. Do you let the egg wash dry completely before deep frying? Glad I didn't know about this before...can't imagine painting 350 egg rolls for each day of the weekend!

[jschyun]

I love the type of spring rolls that were in Gary's pic. The wrapper is very thin and very different from the Americanized egg roll that Jason's picture showed. The thing I love about spring rolls and also lumpia, is the fact that the skin is a bunch of thin, crispy layers, so it's sort of like biting into savory baklava. Okay, not exactly, but I'm not good with descriptions.

I love it when I bite into a spring roll, and the crust shatters into a thousand golden shards onto my plate, and the filling is still hot from the fryer. At dim sum, the server often cuts the spring roll in half and that's good for sharing, but i think I prefer biting into a whole one myself.

Lilke others, I have only seen the chimichanga style egg roll at places like Panda Express or other fast food Chinese places. I don't like it as much as the other kind, because I like that thin, crispy spring roll skin. We have an "upscale" Americanized Chinese place here called P.F. Chiang's, that might also have it, but I haven't been there.

[Dejah]

Sue-On, that's very interesting and suggestive. Do you know if the practice (using egg crepes) was widespread in the 50's in North American Chinese restaurants? If so, you've solved the mystery of why they're called "egg rolls!"

I'd say you'd deserve a Nobel Prize for that discovery.

[Jeannie]

I believe Cantonese spring rolls use wheat-flour wrapper. The difference between spring-roll wrapper and wonton wrapper is that wonton wrapper uses eggs (thus the yellow color).

When I make egg rolls, I make sure that the fillings are dry and cold. If the fillings are juicy, it will make the spring rolls very soggy when deep-fried. I make sure that the skin will turn out crispy and shinny for better presentation effects. As for the condiment, I use soy sauce and hot chili sauce, perhaps hot mustard as well. The ingredients for the fillings: shredded pork (or chicken), shredded bamboo shoots, black mushrooms (thinly sliced).

I have no idea why some likes to dip the rolled-up spring rolls into a batter before deep-frying. To me it seems so unnecessary.

In Shanghai the wonton wrappers are white, but they still have the same slippery texture. My mum seems to think that the flour in the west is different and thats why the wontons are so yellow.

Also Shanghainese springrolls only use shredded pork and chinese leaf/cabbage as a filling nothing else and maybe it's because I grow up with them but I prefer that filling to a filling of lots of different ingredients. They are "cleaner" tasting somehow. And we eat them with zhou (congee)

But generally I'm not a big fan of deep fried stuff, they make me feel a bit queasy afterwards

[hzrt8w]

In Shanghai the wonton wrappers are white, but they still have the same slippery texture. My mum seems to think that the flour in the west is different and thats why the wontons are so yellow.

I don't think your mum was correct on this count.

True, Shanghai (and in general northern China) wonton wrappers are white. They don't call it wonton, they call it "JiaoJi". The Cantonese making of these dumplings are called WonTon. Wonton wrappers are yellow because eggs are added in making them.

No flour alone will make the wrapper color so yellow.

[Jeannie]

In Shanghai the wonton wrappers are white, but they still have the same slippery texture.  My mum seems to think that the flour in the west is different and thats why the wontons are so yellow.

I don't think your mum was correct on this count.

True, Shanghai (and in general northern China) wonton wrappers are white. They don't call it wonton, they call it "JiaoJi". The Cantonese making of these dumplings are called WonTon. Wonton wrappers are yellow because eggs are added in making them.

No flour alone will make the wrapper color so yellow.

Well, maybe it's not the flour, but we certainly do call our wontons "wontons"!

We have big wontons and little wontons. Little wontons are folded like the cantonese ones ie with just the ends squeezed together and they are tiny with just the smallest dab of a meat filling. These are eaten mainly as a breakfast dimsun (dianxin)

The big wontons are much bigger and folded like tortellinis (which I don't think the cantonese have) and these are eaten as dianxin later in the day.

The texture of the wonton skins in Shanghai are just the same as the cantonese wontons but they are definitely white, I don't know why.

When you say jiaoji do you mean jiaozi? These have a completely different type of wrapper and texture, and I certainly do know the difference between the two.

Also, we in Shanghai never think ourselves as part of the North, afterall we are south of the Yangtse River and don't have central heating in our homes Our culture and customs are southern, I always get a jolt of surprise when people refer to us as the North.

Obviously we are North in terms of Canton but the Shanghainese are used to thinking of South/North in terms of culture and customs rather than geography. Most Shanghainese would most annoyed if you tell them that they are part of the North.

Edited July 8, 2004 by Jeannie (log)

[Dejah]

Aiyaaaa! So confusing

I served big and small wontons, except:

The ones with just the ends pinched together, I used a thinner, smaller (3"x3")wonton wrap. When we have time, we fold them like a tortellini.

These were used as soup wonton. My customers ordered these at lunch time, usually served in a big bowl with thin egg noodles, char sui, shrimp and some kind of choy.

As an appetizer, I used a thicker, larger (4"x4") wrapper, folded like a triangular hat.

These are deep fried.

A mixture of ground pork, chopped shrimp and waterchestnuts was used as filling. A dab of filling is not my style I always put a good teaspoonful /about a mothball size in the "tong wontons", flattened somewhat in the "jah wontons".

My kids wouldn't go back to a certain restaurant because they served deep fried wontons with a dab of meat.

[Jeannie]

Aiyaaaa! So confusing

I served big and small wontons, except:

The ones with just the ends pinched together, I used a thinner, smaller (3"x3")wonton wrap. When we have time, we fold them like a tortellini.

These were used as soup wonton. My customers ordered these at lunch time, usually served in a big bowl with thin egg noodles, char sui, shrimp and some kind of choy.

As an appetizer, I used a thicker, larger (4"x4") wrapper, folded like a triangular hat.

These are deep fried.

A mixture of ground pork, chopped shrimp and waterchestnuts was used as filling. A dab of filling is not my style I always put a good teaspoonful /about a mothball size in the "tong wontons", flattened somewhat in the "jah wontons".

My kids wouldn't go back to a certain restaurant because they served deep fried wontons with a dab of meat.

Yes, the small wontons in Shanghai are also made with smaller skins. Both wontons in Shanghai are served in soup. You can get deep fried wontons in Shanghai but they tend to be "second class"wontons if you like; as they are usually cold, left over wontons. I think they are called "rabbit ears" but I can't remember exactly as I've just been to the pub and my memory is deserting me as a consequence.

And we serve the rabbit ears with ketchup! (thinking back to an earlier thread)

Actually has anyone started a thread on worcestershire sauce? We use it a fair amount in Shanghai for deep fried stuff especially pork chops, we call it La jiang you (mandarin) in Shanghai "chilli soy sauce!"

[hzrt8w]

The texture of the wonton skins in Shanghai are just the same as the cantonese wontons but they are definitely white, I don't know why.

No matter what they are called, their origin and how they are made, white wrappers are made with wheat flour, yellow wrappers are made with wheat flour and eggs added. Trust me on this one.

[Gary Soup]

Also, we in Shanghai never think ourselves as part of the North, afterall we are south of the Yangtse River and don't have central heating in our homes  Our culture and customs are southern, I always get a jolt of surprise when people refer to us as the North.

Obviously we are North in terms of Canton but the Shanghainese are used to thinking of South/North in terms of culture and customs rather than geography.  Most Shanghainese would most annoyed if you tell them that they are part of the North.

I'll never confuse you with a "Jiangbeiren," Jennie.

Shanghai could use a little central heating though, IMHO.

[Jeannie]

Also, we in Shanghai never think ourselves as part of the North, afterall we are south of the Yangtse River and don't have central heating in our homes  Our culture and customs are southern, I always get a jolt of surprise when people refer to us as the North.

Obviously we are North in terms of Canton but the Shanghainese are used to thinking of South/North in terms of culture and customs rather than geography.  Most Shanghainese would most annoyed if you tell them that they are part of the North.

I'll never confuse you with a "Jiangbeiren," Jennie.

Shanghai could use a little central heating though, IMHO.

Yes I know, it is ridiculous that we are just a tiny bit south of the yangtse river and so we can't have central heating whereas those on the northern bank can!

Gary, can you throw any light on the wonton discussion? Is it just the addition of egg in the skin? Texture wise, I do think they are the same though. Not sure what the egg adds to the wrapper in terms of taste and texture.

[Gary Soup]

I think it's the egg. In Shanghai I only have had the "xiao huntun" (but often, especially for breakfast at our local Qiaojiazha outlet). Here in the US, all the wrappers and mian are made with egg. I haven't really noticed much difference in taste or texture.

I suspect the egg adds elasticity. I don't think the eggless noodles in Shanghai could be made as fine as the ones they favor in Guangzhou and Hong Kong. For wrappers, I don't think it makes make much difference. As far as taste goes, the savory broth probably overpowers any difference.

[lorea]

Maybe there's a regional American difference? I don't think I've ever seen the yellow wrappers on the west coast.

Also, it seems that the difference between egg rolls and spring rolls on the west coast is that egg rolls have meat filling, whereas spring rolls are vegetarian. I've never seen them with the blistered skins on the west coast (although I've seen the Vietnamese fried egg rolls with those skins)

[hzrt8w]

Maybe there's a regional American difference? I don't think I've ever seen the yellow wrappers on the west coast.

I used to live in Los Angeles and San Francisco, now am living in Sacramento. When I shop at 99 Ranch or similar Asian grocery markets, they always have both "white" and "yellow" wonton wrappers available. I don't think it's a regional American difference.

I observed that the yellow wonton skins are used in more Hong Kongish Chinese restaurants, while the white wonton skins are used in more Yankee'ish Chinese restaurants.

[Gary Soup]

I guess I'm getting confused by "white" and "yellow" wrappers. The wrappers and mian we get in San Francisco are all pale colored (off-white, never bright white) but always have egg listed in the ingredents. We do most of our shopping in Chinatown, where Cantonese predominate, yet the skins and mian look just about like what we would see in Shanghai.

Maybe restaurants use wrappers with annato added to make then look richer.

But then again I'm not so much of a wonton maven that I've paid that much atention. Give me a nice big bowl of tang mian (made with thick noodles, of course) and throw an extra pork chop and a fried egg on top, please!

[Dejah]

I went digging in freezer and pulled out a package of wrappers, specifically called Wonton Wrappers. These are of wheat flour and egg.

I also have a package labelled Shanghai Dumpling Wrappers. These do not have egg, just water, flour and a food preservative.

Gary, are Shanghai dumplings a familiar term, and are they like Cantonese soup wontons?

Or, are they jiaozi, boiled, with water added each time the pot comes to a boil? I have only mades these once, when we had a Chinese professor from Nanjing at our house. We made the wrappers and used ground pork and sui choy for the filling. We ate these with dipping sauces.

I just picked these commercial wrappers up thinking they are for jiaozi... These are definitely white.

[Gary Soup]

I just picked these commercial wrappers up thinking they are for jiaozi...   These are definitely white.

Were they round?

Actually, my wife makes her own wrappers for jiaozi. They definitely are pearly white.

The wonton skins and noodles she buys are all freshly made by a local company, and all contain egg. I've never really checked out the stuff in the freezer compartments, though she does buy egg roll skins frozen. (They, too, appear to have egg in them, based on the color).

[Dejah]

Gary wrote: Were they round?

Yes, round and white.

[Gary Soup]

Gary wrote: Were they round?

Yes, round and white.

Jiaozi wrappers, no doubt.

[stephenc]

So much confusion....

Jiao-zi/gyoza/Dumpling/pot sticker/shue jiao/gwo tei wrappers - white, round

wonton wrappers - yellowish, square

Edited July 12, 2004 by stephenc (log)

[Tepee]

OK, the spring/egg rolls in the US is real foreign to this yellow face woman.

For me, 2 main versions.

1. Filled with shredded, cooked and seasoned jicama (chinese turnip to me), chopped firm tofu and eggs, bean sprouts. Homemade ones have mushrooms too.

2. Pls scroll down here.

Besides cabbage, what's in the Ameri-chinese rolls?

Edited April 25, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[Yuki]

I know of 3 common kind of spring roll:

1.) A wet mixture of ground pork, and a bit of chopped up mushroom

2.) Shredded taro with a bit of ground pork (my absolute favourite, I love anything with taro in it)

3.) Vegetarian- shiitake mushroom, wood ear mushroom, bamboo, and stuff that I do not remember

Modern kind of spring roll (you can wrap anything in it!!)

1.) Shrimp or any seafood with lots of mayo

2.) Banana with red bean paste

Edited to add in: Um... realized that this thread is actually on American spring roll/egg roll. Actually I do not have much to say about them since I have never had one before. The only thing I know about them is that they are huge and people like to pour sweet&sour sauce or plum sauce over them.

Edited April 25, 2005 by Yuki (log)

[Ben Hong]

TP, if I can remember all of them, I'll try to list the ingredients that we used in our long ago restaurant here.

Blanched and wrung dry cabbage(round head regular type). Green onions. Salt and pepper. 5-spice powder. Ground meat -could be chicken, beef or pork. Oh, and msg. of course. "Special" ones that were made to order were regular barrel shaped spring rolls and the meat therein was shrimp and chopped char siu.

Now I ask you, wouldn't it be a shame to drench such a creation with "plum" sauce? That's what THEY did.

[sheetz]

From my experience, Ameri-Chinese egg rolls are bigger than Chinese spring rolls and are usually stuffed with chopped cabbage and some sort of meat. Egg rolls wrappers are usually made of the same type of dough as wonton skins.

Spring rolls have lots of different fillings. I like ones filled with pork, mushrooms, and bamboo shoots. Here's a picture of one from the Yank Sing restaurant in San Francisco:

Notice the different type of wrapper on the spring roll.

[SuzySushi]

Ben Hong and sheetz are absolutely correct. Chinese-American egg rolls are made with thicker, larger skins than spring rolls -- usually egg noodle dough like wonton wrappers, but even thicker than that. They're most commonly filled with chopped cabbage (sometimes with the addition of bits of other vegetables like chopped onions, scallions, mung bean sprouts, shredded carrots, and celery) and some kind of meat (ground or chopped pork, char shu, chicken, or shrimp). They're rolled up, sealed with egg, and deep-fried. The finished wrapper is crisp with a lot of bubbles on the outside and doughy on the inside. A finished egg roll measures about 4.5 to 6" long (11.5 - 15.5 cm) by about 2" (5 cm) in diameter.

The spring rolls served here at better Chinese restaurants or for dim sum use finer flour wrappers (more like lumpia skins) and measure no more than 3 to 4" long (7.5 to 10.5 cm) by about 1.25" (3 cm) in diameter. The wrapper fries up very thin and crisp, almost like that of Vietnamese rice paper wrappers (which some restaurants actually substitute).