Lost Vineyards

[tommy]

couldn't resist picking up a bottle of this stuff giving it a try. had the rose. they also have a red and a white. from Portugal.

at first, i wasn't sure i liked it. but i think that's because i expected it to be sweeter. in fact, it's not overly sweet at all. and it doesn't have that stemmy/tannic flavor that so many inexpensive roses seem to have. perhaps that's by design, but for a summertime quaffing rose, i'm not a big fan of that style.

bottom line, this is a fun quaffing wine, with just a tad over 10% alcohol. oh, and it's $1.97 a bottle.

this stuff will definitely be making an appearance at my next summer party. and it was quite satisfying buying a case of wine with the change rertrieved from my car seat.

for those in northern NJ, it's available at Home Liquors in Hackensack, a store most known for moving incredible quantities of Old Milwaukee 30 packs.

[Varmint]

Pick up a case or 9 for me, would ya, Tom? I always need ultra-cheap wine.

[tommy]

Pick up a case or 9 for me, would ya, Tom? I always need ultra-cheap wine.

you remind me of something i wanted to mention.

i would think that this stuff is easier to come by than chuck, as they most likely don't have the same retarded distribution deal that chuck has.

[mongo_jones]

so it is nationally available?

[tommy]

so it is nationally available?

unlikely, as it was just released in NY a 2 months ago or so.

as far as the issue with Chuck, that's a wine that for all intents and purposes isn't available in NJ and NYC. if these guys at Lost Vineyards have enough juice, and can get through whatever red tape they have to get through, i'd hope they'd go national.

Edited June 13, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Craig Camp]

Here is the story on Lost Vineyards.

...when there is a story about a cheap mass wine brand you can always depend on the Modesto Bee to have the story!

[Craig Camp]

The wines are good, he added, simply because consumers in an Old World wine culture like Portugal won't accept mediocre wine.

He has to be kidding. The basic cheap European grocery store wines are swill. Much worse than American mass produced wines - they do cost less though.

[tanabutler]

it was quite satisfying buying a case of wine with the change rertrieved from my car seat.

Kwak me up.

[Bombdog]

i would think that this stuff is easier to come by than chuck, as they most likely don't have the same retarded distribution deal that chuck has.

Hmmm, I don't seem to have any problem with Chuck, as my neighbor is the bottling line supervisor for the swing shift...but then again, is that good?

[Craig Camp]

It's worth noting that Eastern Europe has an ocean of unbelievably cheap acceptable commercial grade wine that could also sell for under $2. If Lost Vineyards is a success you can bet to see more of this type of brand.

[tommy]

i would think that this stuff is easier to come by than chuck, as they most likely don't have the same retarded distribution deal that chuck has.

Hmmm, I don't seem to have any problem with Chuck, as my neighbor is the bottling line supervisor for the swing shift...but then again, is that good?

in NJ it's available at only one chain (of which there are only 3 stores) and at only one of those stores. retarded for sure.

[Mayhaw Man]

It's worth noting that Eastern Europe has an ocean of unbelievably cheap acceptable commercial grade wine that could also sell for under $2. If Lost Vineyards is a success you can bet to see more of this type of brand.

Craig,

If that is the case could it be possible that this is more than a just a minor annoyance for producers of wine in the old popular price range ($8-$12)?

They can't possibly compete with the price as many of them are not old line producers and have serious financial obligations to cover and those obligations are based on the fact that they can unload x amount of wine at a more or less pre determined (by their business plan) price. Obviously they can compete in quality, but as the sales of TBC have shown, many people are willing to take a slight whack in the quality if the price is low enough (I know many people argue that there is not even a drop in quality-but I haven't had it so I don't know. I am more interested in the economic impact on the producers).

So my theory here is that the importation of wine will do even greater damage to domestic producers in the US as the cachet of a European label will make the wines in the "extreme popular price category" even more acceptable. Part of the appeal of TBC, as far as I have been able to tell is, that when drinking it with friends people actually brag about it. "Hey, I got this stuff for two bucks at Trader Joe's and it's not making me sick or anything. This is great!"

Now they will be able to say, " Hey, Check out this European wine. I got it for two bucks and the stuff is really pretty good. And it's from Europe. So it must be better than stuff from California".

I think the eventuality will be alot of small wineries that are currently in poor financial situations bailing out and selling to larger wineries to get out from under their notes. The larger wineries will move much of this production into the "extreme popular price category" as they are in a much better position to take a hit in their wholesale price than smaller operations.

This will be good for the consumer (in terms of price, but not so much in terms of interesting, quality wines), very bad for the small producers and for lovers of oddball, delicious wines at $10-$15 per bottle.

[Rebel Rose]

"Hey, Check out this European wine. I got it for two bucks and the stuff is really pretty good. And it's from Europe. So it must be better than stuff from California."

Mayhaw, that's so sad, and true, it's funny.

Midsize and overextended wineries are the hardest hit by the recent wine gluts. It has more to do with financial planning than size.

Bucky and his friends are definitely a major annoyance. I recently attended a Winegrower's BBQ with over two hundred Paso Robles vineyards represented. Everyone brings a bottle, right? Since 80% of the fruit grown here is sold to Napa and Sonoma, here's a chance for our growers to taste a huge variety of wines made from Paso grapes. And do you know what several attendees brought? Two Buck Chuck!!!

When wineries suffer from price challenges, it's ultimately the vineyards that are hardest and most immediately affected. California wine prices don't fluctuate quickly (after all, it takes us years to make the stuff--we tend to be a slow moving bunch) but grape prices can rise and fall dramatically. In 1997, growers were often getting $2200 a ton for fruit (I know, half of the Napa prices, but that's another thread) and now wineries are saying, listen, I'll offer you $500 and let you know during harvest if I have room.

Vineyards are floating up for sale like dead goldfish.

[Mayhaw Man]

I was hoping that you would pop up here. And you are right, it my little joke about European wine vs. California in the eyes of the consumer is sadly true.

Now-for more questions- The vineyards that are for sale-are they moving? And if so who is buying them? Larger producers-other growers in better financial straights (interest rates are still relatively low so I suppose that if you had the wherewithal to do it that this would be a good time to expand-assuming that you had a financial plan that took into consideration the crappy price for good fruit) or is it big producers looking to expand non cooperative acreage? Are the prices for land sale reasonable? Or are the prices too low and everyone is losing their shirt on the sale?

Sorry for all of the questions, but this is a fascinating subject to me. Economics, farming, and consumer whims and preferences make some pretty good food for thought.

[tommy]

I was hoping that you would pop up here. And you are right, it my little joke about European wine vs. California in the eyes of the consumer is sadly true.

i'm thinking that the people who are buying TBC and Lost Vineyards and bragging about the price are people who generally aren't buying a lot of wine anyway. i have to question how much influence they have on the market and on vineyards.

i'm probably an exception, but it's safe to say that my purchases of TBC and LV didn't really lower my monthly wine bill.

[Mayhaw Man]

i'm thinking that the people who are buying TBC and Lost Vineyards and bragging about the price are people who generally aren't buying a lot of wine anyway.  i have to question how much influence they have on the market and on vineyards.

i'm probably an exception, but it's safe to say that my purchases of TBC and LV didn't really lower my monthly wine bill.

I'm thinking that you are right. I do believe, however, that these are the same people who stepped up and started buying a little stuff like Clos du Bois and Kendall Jackson and the like in the mid nineties. These are the consumers that were driving the vineyard expansions that were making for the crazy fruit/juice prices in the late nineties and I think that they will be the same people that, by purchasing TBC and LV, will collapse those same vineyards.

And as far as your bills at the Wineshop go, I am sure that they have nothing to fear from you.

edited because I type like I think-and that is not easy for anyone else to understand (or me, for that matter-I am constantly confused)

[Rebel Rose]

Now-for more questions- The vineyards that are for sale-are they moving? And if so who is buying them? Larger producers-other growers in better financial straights (interest rates are still relatively low so I suppose that if you had the wherewithal to do it that this would be a good time to expand-assuming that you had a financial plan that took into consideration the crappy price for good fruit) or is it big producers looking to expand non cooperative acreage? Are the prices for land sale reasonable?  Or are the prices too low and everyone is losing their shirt on the sale?

Sorry for all of the questions, but this is a fascinating subject to me. Economics, farming, and consumer whims and preferences make some pretty good food for thought.

Thanks, Mayhaw. I'm not sure whether to be flattered or frightened by all these questions!

Here's a quick peek into the local "land"scape. Paso Robles is equidistant between San Francisco and LA, as well as between Monterey and Santa Barbara. Home and property values have doubled in the last ten years and small (1 to 40 acre) sites are getting harder to find, due to our growing popularity as a country lifestyle area. Vineyards, however, that were selling for $2,000 an acre in the early 1990's are now going for $10,000 an acre or more. Much of that has to do with Paso's increasing recognition as a fine wine area, and so is not indicative of wine grape acreage prices overall.

Until the last few years, nearly all the new wineries and vineyards were being established by long time residents of the area, by experienced viticulturists from other areas, or by local farmers who were switching over to grapes from other crops like walnuts. Most of these people are still farming grapes successfully. They have business and agricultural acumen. However, with our rise in recognition and popularity as a "vanity vineyard" destination, we are now seeing a flush of new vineyard and winery owners with more money than agri-sense. Some are excellent businessmen who dedicate themselves to learning every aspect of viticulture and what's appropriate for their site. They're also good at marketing their grapes. Some, however, think it's going to be a lark--plant some grapes, hire a consultant, and wait for your friends to visit your new casa. These are the owners who are getting discouraged--it takes at least six years before you even begin to see a return of your investment, and many more before you can begin to count on a true profit. Oh geez, the irony of this thread's title!

No one here is losing their shirts on a sale, however, and many are making a very tidy profit, based on land values, property improvements, and the value of a producing vineyard. It's just a harsh financial wake up call for many people, and a lotta lotta stress if you don't have buyers for your crop. And sometimes when you do. The "big boys"--Gallo in particular--are dropping contracts and absorbing contract penalties without demur in order to acquire cheaper contracts and their own land here. So, vineyards for sale.

Most buyers fall into two camps. One is the wineries and large vineyards that are looking to expand their holdings. Wineries who can grow all their own fruit have tighter control over quality and are cutting out the grower's markup. Another market are the aforesaid vanity vineyard owners who are still flocking to us like seagulls on a beach.

Wanna buy a vineyard?

. . . better visit Carolyn's wineblog first!

[Mayhaw Man]

Your answer personifies the reason that I find this place so amazing. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. It still amazes me that the opportunity to go "straight to the horse's mouth" can possibly be so readily available.

There are plenty of screwed up things in the world, but this form of information sharing/gathering is not one of them (although I am sure that my bookseller is dissappointed to see my gargantuan monthly periodical bill drop ).

[ctgm]

It's worth noting that Eastern Europe has an ocean of unbelievably cheap acceptable commercial grade wine that could also sell for under $2. If Lost Vineyards is a success you can bet to see more of this type of brand.

Not in this country!!

Duty and VAT on duty comes to £17.28 per case of 12 or £1.44 a bottle which at current exchange rates of about £1:$1.8 is $2.59 a bottle going to the governmnet.

This of course does not take into account the 17.5% VAT on the value of the wine

[jmcnally]

I don't think LV will seriously challenge Chuck for the reason that currency exchange rates are so variable. It would be difficult to predict if LV can continue to sell their wine so cheaply if the Euro drops against the dollar...