An interface between the two languages

[jeniac42]

Arigatoo gozaimasu!

←

In this situation, we say

(Douzo, douka) yoroshiku onegai shimasu

(どうぞ、どうか）宜しくお願いします

rather than Arigatoo gozaimasu.

After your request is granted, you will say

(Doumo) arigatou gozaimasu (or gozaimashita)

(どうも）ありがとうございます（ございました）.

←

Ah! We hadn't learned that yet. Thank you very much for the information. Or should I say, doumo arigatou gozaimashita?

どうもありがとうございました

[Hiroyuki]

Arigatoo gozaimasu!

←

In this situation, we say

(Douzo, douka) yoroshiku onegai shimasu

(どうぞ、どうか）宜しくお願いします

rather than Arigatoo gozaimasu.

After your request is granted, you will say

(Doumo) arigatou gozaimasu (or gozaimashita)

(どうも）ありがとうございます（ございました）.

←

Ah! We hadn't learned that yet. Thank you very much for the information. Or should I say, doumo arigatou gozaimashita?

どうもありがとうございました

←

Perfect!!

[jeniac42]

Since I am still trying to learn to read and write Japanese at a reasonable speed, I have decided to practice by writing out my meals as much as possible. I figure this will let me say that cooking and eating are part of my homework... If torakris doesn't mind, I would like to post them here - I don't expect anyone to look at them and correct them but if there is time that would be great. If this is not an OK use for the forum just let me know!

(As of right now I really don't know many kanji so I will not be using them much, even though I can look most of them up on the WWWJDIC - I am afraid I would use them incorrectly and I don't know the stroke order.)

Today for lunch I had:

Soba with tempura sauce (is there a name for this?) / そばとてんつゆ

Broccoli / ブロッコリ

Grilled salmon / さけ

Pickled daikon / たくあん

For the tentsuyu / てんつゆ I used:

2c dashi / だし

4T mirin / みりん

4T sake / おさけ

1/3c soy sauce / しょうゆ

Edited November 28, 2005 by jeniac42 (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Soba with tempura sauce (is there a name for this?) / そばとてんつゆ

←

You mean mentsuyu めんつゆ, right?

Anyway, I must say you are a quick learner!

[jeniac42]

Thank you!

I thought that mentsuyu (めんつゆ) and tentsuyu (てんつゆ) were different... the recipe I used said tentsuyu. I assumed it had more soy sauce or something like that, but maybe I am wrong.

[torakris]

You were right in describing tentsuyu as a tempura sauce, but I think Hiroyuki was confused because, like I, he had probably never dipped noodles in a tentsuyu before. Mentsuyu (men means noodles) is the common sauce. I am really not sure of the actual differences, and it probably varies from cook to cook, but though they are both based on dashi, soy and mirin I add extra katsuo-bushi to my mentsuyu and a little sugar as well. Also the strength will depend on whether it is to be used as a tsuke-jiru (dipping sauce = a little stronger) or a kake-jiru (broth = a little weaker).

Please keep posting your meals! pictures would be nice too!

[jeniac42]

Ah, I see. I like the stronger flavor of the dipping sauce type tsuyu, and so I made it a little strong, but I do think it was kind of overwhelming after I ate the entire bowl of noodles.

I will keep posting, and I'll add pictures as soon as I get my digital camera battery charger back from my friend who borrowed it....

Today's meal was leftover "Thanksgiving" dinner, which I posted about in the Cooking forum. I just wrote it all out in katakana for my blog... but here it is!

Roasted chicken / チキン

Stuffing / スタフィング

Mashed potatoes / マシュ・ポテト

Gravy / グレービ

Green bean casserole! / グリーンビーン・カスロル

Cranberry sauce / クランベリーソース

I tried to look up and Google as many of the katakana words as possible and I think they are all right.

[jeniac42]

Last night's and today's food, with PICTURES! My camera is really terrible so it looks even worse than it did in real life, though.

First, my new rice cooker / 私のあたらしいすいはんき：

Please excuse the splatters on the stove. They're from the curry that's cooking in the pan on the right hand side of the photo. My kitchen isn't that dirty!

I also made the House brand Java Curry with ground beef, onions, and carrots. It was pretty good like that! I decided it should be called hamburger curry / ハンバーガーカレー and this is a picture of my lunch for today. It also has pickled daikon / たくあん：

And with the leftover rice I made onigiri with pickled plums for breakfast. How would you say that? うめのおにぎり？

Edited November 30, 2005 by jeniac42 (log)

[Hiroyuki]

And with the leftover rice I made onigiri with pickled plums for breakfast.  How would you say that? うめのおにぎり？

←

Sorry for not responding sooner.

It is perfectly all right to call it 'ume no onigiri', but in written Japanese, there can be all sorts of possibilities, such as:

umeboshi no onigiri (or omusubi)

umeboshi onigiri (or omusubi)

umeboshi nigiri (or musubi)

ume no onigiri (or omusubi)

ume onigiri (or omusubi)

ume nigiri (or musubi)

Of the possibilities listed above, 'ume onigiri' seems to be the most popular form.

In everyday conversation, we often refer to it simply as 'ume'.

[jeniac42]

どうもおせわさま！

As I posted in the other threads, recently I have made:

kuri-gohan / くりごはん

korokke / コロッケ

sweet potato / やまいも

takikomi-gohan / たきこみごはん (I messed it up though!)

[Hiroyuki]

sweet potato / やまいも

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You mean satsuma imo (さつまいも, 薩摩芋)?

[jeniac42]

sweet potato / やまいも

←

You mean satsuma imo (さつまいも, 薩摩芋)?

←

Hmm. What most people here call "sweet potatoes" are actually yams, I think. It was bright orange and quite sweet, not too starchy... so I think it is yamaimo / やまいも but I could be wrong. I have always been confused about the distinction even in English...

[torakris]

sweet potato / やまいも

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You mean satsuma imo (さつまいも, 薩摩芋)?

←

Hmm. What most people here call "sweet potatoes" are actually yams, I think. It was bright orange and quite sweet, not too starchy... so I think it is yamaimo / やまいも but I could be wrong. I have always been confused about the distinction even in English...

←

yamaimo are mountain yams they have white flesh and are very slimy. Here is the yamaimo/nagaimo (mountain yam) thread.

The Japanese sweet potato called satsumaimo is much lighter fleshed than its American cousin. The satsumaimo thread You could probably refer to the American version as either satsumaimo or sweet potato in katakana (スウィートポテト) just keep in ming though that the latter is also a name of a sweet dish using satsumaimo.

Confused yet?

[markabauman]

I may have the opportunity to take a cooking class this winter with a Japanese woman who is both a sushi-chef (one of the few, I understand-there's a reputed bias having to do with something like their hand temperature, etc) and also, of course, a cooking teacher. Normally, I would address the chef as itamae-san, if that is correct, but I've only encountered males (in the US, I haven't been to Japan). What would be the proper way and term to use addressing a female chef? Teacher? Arigato.

[Hiroyuki]

Itamae-san sounds perfect, and teacher is sensei in Japanese.

[jeniac42]

I was going to post this in the translations thread, but I thought it might be more helpful as its own topic. Kris, if you want, feel free to merge it in.

Since I am studying Japanese, I have been trying to read and translate recipes. So far I haven't had a lot of success; I can recognize words but definitely not come up with a usable recipe. Part of the problem is that I can't translate the measurements! So, if anyone can help me, that would be really great. I don't expect you to tell me what the US measurement is, but maybe there is an equivalent in cc or ounces?

For example, I have figured out that ?? means a "cut piece" or a "slice", which is a good enough translation for me. (Sometimes knowing the measurement also helps me to figure out what the ingredient is.)

But what about ????????????????and others? (Some I have been unable to look up even by their kanji; I know that ? is a counter for long objects, so it might mean "stalks" of herbs, but I am not sure.)

I would appreciate any insight on this! In the meantime I'm going to keep trying on my own and I will be sure to post any translations here.

edit: it looks like my kanji did not translate properly when I posted. The first I had was romanized as "kire" (cut piece, slice); the second is "hon"; third is "ko" (the one that means "individual" or "article"), then the ones that I think mean something like "tablespoon" and "teaspoon" and which I think are read "oosaji" and "chiisasaji".

I am sorry - I'm using a Mac and can't make it work! I'll post the real kanji tomorrow.

Edited March 4, 2006 by jeniac42 (log)

[torakris]

edit: it looks like my kanji did not translate properly when I posted.  The first I had was romanized as "kire" (cut piece, slice); the second is "hon"; third is "ko" (the one that means "individual" or "article"), then the ones that I think mean something like "tablespoon" and "teaspoon" and which I think are read "oosaji" and "chiisasaji".

←

It can be pretty confusing when you first start reading things like recipes as there seems to be a different "counter" word for everything.

切　kire is sually used for fish and you don't often find fish in the US cut in the same way. This is what a kire should look like.

本　hon, this is used to describe long cylindrical items, you will see things like carrots and daikon using this counter.

個　ko, I sort of think of ko as the everything else category. I fit doesn't fit somewhere else I will use ko, these things tend to be round like onions, eggs, broccoli, etc. if it says 1個　then you need one thing, 　2個　is two things and 10個 would be ten things.

大さじ oosaji Tablespoon 15ml

小さじ kosaji teaspoon 5ml

Just another word of warning, a Japanese cup is 200ml (a little more than 3/4 of an American cup).

[torakris]

Over 2 years ago I covered counters in the Daily Nihongo thread, here is that post:

So you want to learn how to count, do you??

I have been studying Japanese for 14 years and I still don't know all the counters and freuently mess them up.

There are probably close to 50 different "counters" or words used to describe objects being counted.

First you need to know the numbers:

1 ichi

2 ni

3 san

4 shi/yon

5 go

6 roku

7 shichi/nana

8 hachi

9 ku/kyu

10 ju

It would be simple if you could just take those numbers and pop them in front of the counter words, but nooo, they need to make it more complicated than that. Look at the examples below and you will see what I mean.

I will teach you some of the counters you will be likely to encounter in daily conversations, especially those related to food.

杯　hai (cupfuls, glassfuls, bowlfuls, spoonfuls)

1 ip-pai

2 ni-hai

3 san-bai

4 yon-hai

個　ko (general object counter, especially sperical or cube shaped, like apples)

1 ik-ko

2 ni-ko

3 san-ko

4 yon-ko

枚　mai (flat objects, paper, pizzas, etc)

1 ichi-mai

2 ni-mai

3 san-mai

4 yon-mai

箱 hako (boxes, boxfuls)

1 hito-hako

2 futa-hako

3 mi-hako/ san-pako

4 yon-hako

本　hon (long objects, like pencils, beer bottles)

1 ip-pon

2 ni-hon

3 san-bon

4 yon-hon

匹　hiki (for counting animals)

1 ip-piki

2 ni-hiki

3 san-biki

4 yon-hiki/shi-hiki

UNLESS you are counting large animal like elephants then you use tou (頭) and birds and rabbits have their own counter wa (羽)

人 nin (people)

1 hito-ri

2 futa-ri

3 san-nin

4 yo-nin

皿 sara (helping or courses of food)

1 hito-sara

2 futa-sara

3 mi-sara

4 yon-sara/yo-sara

束 taba (bundles or bunches, like leafy vegetables in the supermarket)

1 hito-taba

2 futa-taba

3 mi-taba/san-taba

4 yon-taba

膳　zen (pairs of chopsticks or bowls of rice, though the counter hai is also used for bowls of rice)

1 ichi-zen

2 ni-zen

3 san-zen

4 yon-zen

Have I confused you yet? Did you even make it this far?

When in doubt you can almost always use the generic counter "tsu"

1 hito-tsu

2 futa-tsu

3 mit-tsu

4 yot-tsu

5 itsu-tsu

6 mut-tsu

7 nana-tsu

8 yat-tsu

9 kokono-tsu

10 tou

11 juu-ichi

The counter "tsu" is not used for numbers past ten, and from 11 on, the "regular" words for numerals are used.

So if you are in a store and see something you want, just point at it and say:

hitotsu kudasai one please

futatsu kudasai two please

mittsu kudasai three please

etc, etc.....

[torakris]

If that last post didn't completely turn you off learning Japanese then this one might!

This is from the Daily Nihongo thread when were discussing katsuo (bonito):

When buying katsuo in a store or reading recipes that call for it you will see a variety of ways to refer to it . Katsuo is most commonly seen in a triangular block form, this same shape that was called a burokku (block) when discussing tuna has a multitude of names when talking about katsuo. These are some of the "counters" I have seen for katsuo.

節　ふし　　fushi （一節）(hito-fushi= one block)

冊　　さつ　　satsu （一冊）(issatsu= one block)

本　　ほん　　hon （一本）(ippon= one block)

サク　　 saku （１サク）(issaku= one block)

See the Japanese can't always agree on what to call things. I once asked some friends how I should translate a sprig of rosemary and I was given 3 different answers.....

[Hiroyuki]

So, as far as the translation of ingredient lists is concerned, just ignore 本 (hon) and 個 (ko) and put 束 （taba) into bunch, 切れ (kire) into slice, and so on.

Any other problems?

As for rice, we still measure it in 合 (gou) and 升 (shou).

1 gou = 180 cc = 180 ml

10 gou = 1 shou = 1800 ml = 1.8 liters

[jeniac42]

Ah, thank you so much, Kris and Hiroyuki! That really helps. Today I am going to try to translate a full recipe so I can make it on Tuesday (I have the Donburi issue of the Orange Page magazine), so I might have more questions....

Japanese counting words can be confusing, but I find them helpful for translating recipes! At least if something is measured in 本 (hon) I know it must be cylindrical, etc.

edited: A lot of the recipes call for 2かけ (kake)　of にんにく (ninniku - garlic?). Is kake a clove?

Edited March 5, 2006 by jeniac42 (log)

[torakris]

edited: A lot of the recipes call for 2かけ (kake)　of にんにく (ninniku - garlic?).  Is kake a clove?

←

Yes that would be a clove of garlic, or in this case two cloves.

[prasantrin]

See the Japanese can't always agree on what to call things.   I once asked some friends how I should translate a sprig of rosemary and I was given 3 different answers.....

←

In my 15-ish years exposed to Japanese, I've never been able to learn all the counters and the proper phonological changes. Therefore, I always use basic numbers (hitotsu, etc.) and never buy more than 10 of the same thing!

Hey, it has always worked for me...

[sanrensho]

See the Japanese can't always agree on what to call things.   I once asked some friends how I should translate a sprig of rosemary and I was given 3 different answers.....

I'm curious, what answers did they give you? Except for gram measurements for baking, I always see "hon" used for rosemary.

[torakris]

See the Japanese can't always agree on what to call things.   I once asked some friends how I should translate a sprig of rosemary and I was given 3 different answers.....

I'm curious, what answers did they give you? Except for gram measurements for baking, I always see "hon" used for rosemary.

←

I was given 本　(hon), 枝 (eda),　穂　(ho), and 枚 (mai)

I eventually went with eda and it just seemed closer to sprig and from searching on the internet it seemed to be more commonly used. I don't really think of rosemary as a ho (穂) as I have more of an image of an ear of wheat or rice, though hojiso (the flowering stalk of the shiso plant) does look similar to rosemary. Another woman suggested I pull of the leaves and then refer to them as mai (the counter for sheets of flat things).

And of course if it is dried you will be referring to it in teaspoons or tablespoons instead....