Chocolate like glass

[thegreatdane]

Wow, you really describe well the great process for getting little chocolate mirrors. I'm definitely going to try that. By the way, when you say "acetate" do you refer to thick guage wrapping paper? It seems consumer plastic wrap would be too flimsy.

[You can also make colored squares by using various methods for spreading, spraying or painting colored cocoa butter and/or white chocolate on the acetate before spreading with chocolate.]

The potential there sounds exciting. Sort of like painting in chocolate, like a window painter. White choc., colored white, milk, dark... Cool. Edible, too. Chocolate VanGogh. Now I'm wondering if one could make prints like an etching using chocolate.

[alanamoana]

tom,

acetate is a thick gauge plastic, but not for wrapping. it is shiny, clear and can be purchased in sheets or strips. the sheets are great for glossy surfaced chocolate work and the strips are mostly used to wrap around cakes, mousses etc. to keep the sides clean and perfectly smooth. if you buy pastries at a fancy bakery, you'll sometimes see acetate on the outside of their cakes.

you should post a query or pm chocophile with regard to "etching" chocolate. he has some amazing products that he showed us at this year's chocolate show...something like a cameo broach but using an actual photograph and somehow translating that picture onto a piece of white chocolate...hold it up to the light and it is actually transluscent...like a watermark. very interesting application.

[tan319]

I think acetate is the same thing as PVC, the clear stuff you get at art supply stores?

[rickster]

You can get acetate sheets at art supply stores in different thicknesses. Have not seen it referred to as PVC.

[Wendy DeBord]

The acetate you buy in art stores in my area is WAY more expensive then buying acetate thru a food vendor. It was hard to even find at the art store, not many carry it anymore. The stuff you get thru food sources is a thinner gauge and larger sized sheets.

Doesn't Uster carry acetate? I think I've seen it for something like .50 to 1.00 per sheet thru them.

PVC is white pipe, not remotely similar to acetate, that I know of.

[tan319]

Sorry to confuse, have seen it referred to as PVC in some of my Spanish pastry books.

[thegreatdane]

I've been assured that chocolate cannot be very shiney unless it's formed on acetate, but recently in the bookstore I ran across a book, The Last Course: The Desserts of Gramercy Tavern

by Claudia Fleming, that shows on the back page chocolate that's shining like jewels. How'd they do that?

[tan319]

A candy, bon bon or what?

I don't think Steve, chefette, Neil or anyone else has been pulling your leg, can you explain?

And what kind of coverture are you using?

[andiesenji]

To coat all sides of a brownie you can use the same technique I use for petit fours.

I spread a strip of ganache on a slipat sheet with a broad spatula and working six in a batch, set the petit fours on the sheet about an inch apart then transfer them to a clean silpat sheet. When the chocolate is set I place them onto a cooling rack set over a tray, then pour the ganache over the petit fours and let the chocolate set up. This way the bottom is evenly coated and the top and sides also have an even glaze.

This has the advantage of sealing the cake away from air so that it will not stale.

I like doing the chocolate glaze, it is much quicker and easier than the rolled fondant coating used when pastel colors are required.

[andiesenji]

I've been assured that chocolate cannot be very shiney unless it's formed on acetate, but recently in the bookstore I ran across a book, The Last Course: The Desserts of Gramercy Tavern

by Claudia Fleming, that shows on the back page chocolate that's shining like jewels. How'd they do that?

In his book Au Couer Des Saveurs, Frederic Bau gives a formula for a sprayable coating which is very shiny. Unfortunately it is tricky to prepare and you have to have special equipment to achieve it.

I just checked in Pierre Herme's book (The Patisserie of) and the only coating that is very shiny is a "printed" topping made on a silpat sheet.

[Steve Klc]

People, please, we don't gain by making this more complicated than it is. That picture in Claudia's book is a picture of very nice, but basic, molded chocolate candies--something very easy to execute. All of those molds can be purchased from JB Prince. You'd cover if you took any recreational basic chocolate skills class--and in the ones I have taught my students mold chocolates successfully the first night. If you learn how to temper, you can mold shiny chocolates like these. Those molds are made of polycarbonate, are rigid, and impart a very nice shine to the tempered chocolate, just like acetate and plastic and glass and shiny metal and bubble-wrap and a million other surfaces and materials impart a nice sheen to tempered chocolate. That was all the rage circa 1995--what can we pour chocolate on or in! Pour some tempered chocolate into a stainless steel mixing bowl, let it set up and guess what? It releases because tempered chocolate contracts and it is shiny because it set up against a clean, shiny, slick surface.

(It actually isn't that easy to do well--there are many little ways you can screw up molding--the mold itself is too cold, the mold is too warm, room too warm, room too cold, chocolate too cool or too thick, chocolate is too warm and too fluid, mold dirty, mold rubbed too clean with a cotton ball so it imparts too much static electricty but I'm being optimistic here. The fact is, there is a reason why some people devote their whole lives to working with chocolate and developing an appreciation of chocolate.)

Who has been "assuring" you Tom? The first thing you learn when you get your hands into food seriously, and chocolate is a food, is there is very rarely only one way to do something.

In an earlier post, you wrote this: "The best way I understand things is to get to the basics, ask basic questions, try things that are new to me, then attempt to build towards what the industry standards are." I still think you need to give yourself some time to learn more about chocolate first, then learn how to temper--much of what you don't seem to be grasping stems from not understanding "the basics" and how or why to temper, read some of the books we have recommended to you, read some of our many older eG threads on chocolate skills, then temper just temper--and then ask the more specific questions--because we don't seem to be helping you to see the basics, to see the big picture or getting through to you. That's our failing, not yours.

With that in mind--there's something which might help us to help you more: are you trying to better understand chocolate and position yourself as a more knowledgeable observer of the real chocolate professionals, like a chocophile has positioned himself or are you trying to actually "do" this stuff, as in acquire and then perfect real working knowledge and skills by doing rather than reading and observing? Because there's a difference--and we might be able to better help you go in one way or the other if we knew.

[tan319]

I didn't want to say this in my earlier post but, something isn't getting thru, and I don't think it's your failing Steve, or anyone elses who has volunteered their considerable knowledge here.

Tom, you were talking about a specific technique and that's why everyone said acetate.

I think Steve has cleared things up on the other ways.

I don't want to seem mean, God knows that me, Sinclair, a myriad of others come in and ask stuff all of the time.

Speaking for myself, most of the time I've googled and searched many places before I do.

That said, I do trust the people who have the backup, etc., to know what they're talking about.

Don't mean to seem surly, it just seemed with that latest Fleming thing, it was almost like you were putting people on.

PLEASE don't go and say "well, maybe I won't come anymore" like the chocolate tutor did, that's not what I mean.

You seem to be so into chocolate, maybe check your scene out and see if there's any schools offering course's or if there's a chocolate store that is even doing the most rudimentary stuff so you can get your feet wet, so to speak.

If you have some money burning a hole in your pocket, get a copy of Bau's book, it's pretty detailed in all things chocolate, especially bon bons.

Go to the JB prince website( JBPrince.com) and click on the books in the pastry section, check ot the chocolate supplies(acetate, candy molds, etc.)

Get one of the serious(and unfortunately expensive) books on chocolate work, forget about the

cheap cookbooks, get something that will really give you the info you crave.

Good Luck to you.

[Steve Klc]

I haven't mentioned this in a while but a really affordable (and good) "short course" on serious chocolate is that very nice chapter on chocolate in the first--and still best--Jacques Torres book "Dessert Circus." This is probably the best introduction overall: condensed guidance from a pro which is accessible and not dumbed-down--start with that and move forward onto eG, to the Bau if you want to focus on bon bons and ganaches more or one of the more advanced books we mentioned if you want to focus more on molding, tempering and showpiece techniques (which is not what the Bau book is about).

[tan319]

There you go, I always forget about that book

Nice one...

[Steve Klc]

Also, I just re-read this thread and I should probably address one other point--the plastic/acetate sheets: the more rigid sheets and rolls are "acetate" and the softer more flexible sheets are "polyethylene." Transfer sheets are on the "polyethylene" type. Both can be used with tempered chocolate, both can give nice shine and which you'll want to use will probably depend what you're trying to do with it. The problem with acetate at times is your chocolate can pull away from it unevenly--leaving streaks and dull pockets because it is more rigid.

[Wendy DeBord]

Oh man you just wrote something I think I accidently discovered........I made some candys dipped in chocolate and set them on a textured sheet of acetate (first time for this). When they dried I was horrified that some didn't get a clean tight contact with the acetate. I was trying to keep the chocolate neat and I placed them down "normally" so I wondered if I should have sort of dropped them down onto the sheet to get a better contact?

I also had another issue with these.........I had a white fondant center and used reg. chocolate not thinned but you can see through the chocolate in places. I now have to go back and mask both these imperfections-yuk waste of time.

Any advice how I should have handled this better?

[Steve Klc]

If you keep experimenting I think you'll probably find that when you're dipping/enrobing the softer transfer sheet plastic, the polyethylene, will work better--and some chocolatiers even use little pre-cut square inch pieces of the polyethylene, with a design on it to transfer, which they drop on a just enrobed chocolate. You can tell these because they'll be flat, shiny on the bottom and shiny on the top with a pattern, with the top edge very flat and somewhat pressed down.

In your first example what you're talking about might be slightly different Wendy--are you dipping and then sliding or inverting a bon bon onto a sheet--and a textured sheet at that? So the bottom is actually going to be the top and have the texure? If so, what's probably happening to you is 1) by the time you're getting the piece off of your fork by sliding or inverting the chocolate is too cold and not spreading/flowing into the texture enough 2) your couverture isn't the right couverture for dipping or at the right temp 3) your sheets are too cold sitting on your countertop/marble 4) your chocolate is too thick from over-aerating or stirring it--do you sometimes see little micro-bubbles that don't go away?

In general, dipping is very difficult to do "well"--it is much easier to mold than it is dip. Everything you do has to be perfect in a fairly narrow temperature range--you should dip into a large bowl with way more chocolate than you need to hold its temperature better--that chocolate should be new and unused, ideally direct warmed over time or tempered with minimal brisk stirring--and if your fillings are too cold, or if your tempered chocolate is not warm enough, at the most upper range of temper, you'll lose shine and flow. That's also why you see very few hand-dipped chocolates, why some chocolatiers are building businesses around a line of molded chocolates: they're much easier--and until they can afford an enrobing machine and guitar--it's also much less expensive. If your walls are too thick, so what--the outside will still look shiny. Line them up and the outside all looks the same. Line up not-expertly dipped chocolates and, well...

(So for those making it this far--with dipping you will get shine if you do it well but it won't be shiny as glass shine--that only comes with being in contact with plastic or polycarbonate.)

In your example it seems you're using something fluid enough Wendy--which couverture are you using? What's the temperature of your white fondant center when you dip--and is it a palet, a ball, a kiss shape, what?

[Lesley C]

BTW, as a side note, there are sprays sold primarily by German companies that are used to increase the shine on chocolate. I think they used to be used for competitions but are now prohibited. When you're looking at a picture from a cookbook, remember a food stylist usually had a hand in that shot, and something like this spray could certainly have been used to increase the chocolate's sheen, shine or brilliance.

The key is also to always keep your molds in great shape, and polishing them with cotton will always help promote shine. Never, ever wash them in soapy water, or -- God forbid -- the dishwasher! Ideally a mold used for making chocolate is never washed, but always scraped clean and then polished. And never put your fingers inside the mold because the chocolate picks up fingerprints. And then once unmolded, the chocolates should only be handled with gloved hands until boxed.

As for glazing brownies with pure chocolate, I would say you're dreaming if you expect to get a shine on that surface. You won't get that slick look unless your chocolate has been molded on a flat surface, preferably acetate (shined with a cotton ball), or metal.

As for molded chocolates, metal molds will always give a shinier surface, BUT they're hard to find, heavy, and a pain in the ass to clean. But if you can find one for a large figure (like a rabbit or a duck for Easter) grab it if it's in good shape because metal molds usually give the best results. And chocolate molded in metal left to set in a cool room will always be shinier than one that was refrigerated.

[Samaki]

That's also why you see very few hand-dipped chocolates, why some chocolatiers are building businesses around a line of molded chocolates: they're much easier--and until they can afford an enrobing machine and guitar--it's also much less expensive.

That would be me! Though I am continuously working on my dipping skills. In the absence of taking a class (which is not a possibility right now), are there any books you would recommend?

[thegreatdane]

The Fleming photo of bon bons looked shinier than any I'd ever seen and I wanted to find out if there was something else going on other than tempering and molding; some technique I should know about as I gain experience. I get what's been said thus far and know that experience is the best teacher, but there's also nothing wrong with asking questions simultaneously, so Ted and Steve, don't get your knickers in a knot. Thanks for all the helpful comments everyone.

[Lesley C]

That would be me! Though I am continuously working on my dipping skills. In the absence of taking a class (which is not a possibility right now), are there any books you would recommend?

No. To learn to make chocolates properly, you really need to work side by side with a decent chocolatier. Otherwise, if you intend to sell your products commercially, you are really wasting your time. I would say do something else until you have the time to take a class -- or stick to truffles!

[tan319]

The Fleming photo of bon bons looked shinier than any I'd ever seen and I wanted to find out if there was something else going on other than tempering and molding; some technique I should know about as I gain experience. I get what's been said thus far and know that experience is the best teacher, but there's also nothing wrong with asking questions simultaneously, so Ted and Steve, don't get your knickers in a knot. Thanks for all the helpful comments everyone.

As Lesley C. pointed out, food stylists are usually heavily involved with photographers on shoots for books.

So, you might be trying to achieve a look that could be impossible, unless you invest in some shellac or spray's, for instance.

Btw, I can see you taking a shot at me, but Steve?

[JanKK]

Never, ever wash them in soapy water, or -- God forbid -- the dishwasher!

Yeah...I can vouch for that. I was feeling really, really lazy one time and decide "what they hell" ....and I put my candy molds in the dishwasher.

They were little squares when they went it .....but were completely reshaped into something quite abstract by the time they came out!!

[Steve Klc]

There is nothing special about those molded chocolates in Claudia's book--it is a very nice photo of typically well-executed molded chocolates that are done every day by the thousands all over the country--from Jennifer/samaki to Pat Coston to Norman Love to Drew to students in cooking schools. This is how molded chocolates with a dark couverture should look, no more, no less.

But let's examine this more closely as a kind of teaching and awareness tool: if you wanted to be picky as a judge might be picky--as most chocolate afficionados are picky--even in this Claudia picture you see flaws because really professionally done pictures reveal ALL flaws--you can see some stippling, little surface dots, in the row of molded pyramids, you can see a little pock mark on the round candy in the lower right, and you can see a bad air bubble in lower right hand top corner of the square candy fourth from the bottom. All of these result from little errors in the tempering and molding process--something that didn't crystallize right, chocolate that wasn't 100% at the right temperature, a mold that had a little speck or smudge on it. Sometimes you have to spray or brush into a difficult mold to make sure you don't get an air bubble like that in a corner. None of this will affect the eating and taste in any way--but it is flaws like these--and like seeing fingerprints--that if magnified, and especially if noticeable on a less than shiny chocolate--reveal you're dealing with an amateur or less-skilled pro, someone who doesn't take pride in what they do or a vendor who mishandles the chocolates sent to them for resale.

That means, even if you've never worked with chocolate, you can look into the chocolate display case at a Dean & Deluca and merely by looking make a judgement about the work of the chocolatiers represented and of the care D&D takes in handling it. That's why it is always a good idea to be able to see the chocolates you are buying--either in a case or wrapped in a giftbox--there are visual things you can pick up on if you know what to look for. You should never buy anything you cannot see unless it is from an impeccably-trusted source.

And as far as enhancing the shine in something molded--that is done often but not necessarily by any special product or technique: given a clean mold as Lesley outlined, you'll get a just slightly better shine--a just slightly better glisten and sparkle--if you spray into the mold first before pouring and lining the mold with regular tempered chocolate. Spray with a regular spray mixture--a mix of your couverture thinned with cocoa butter with some powdered color or not--through a spray gun (which we've mentioned often on eG.) That extra bit of cocoa butter and that very fine spray enhance shine.

But that isn't what was done in this Claudia example.

And Jennifer--I'm afraid I'm with Lesley on the intricacies of the guitar and dipping--there really is no substitute for spending time with someone trained in that old school French, Belgian or Swiss confectioner model, to learn the methods and how to use the equipment, which is why when specialists like a Werner Hitz or Jean-Pierre Wybauw come to the US to teach, like at Ewald's school or Jacquy's school in Chicago, their classes sell out. However, it should be said Americans will never actually appreciate this--and you'll likely never make any money by dipping by hand. You'll continue to see two basic tiers of chocolate production shake out: 1) entry level all by hand--truffles, molded candies, etc.--with or without a tempering machine and 2) People who invest in an enrobing machine--and turn out chocolates like the Herme-consulted line sold through Wegmans. You'll also likely see more people buy cheap commercial shells, fill them, and pass themselves off as skilled artisan chocolatiers a la Vosges.

Lesley--I have known at least one top French chocolatier who advocated putting polycarbonate molds in a dishwasher--on regular heat, with no soap and no dry cycle, with the cavities rubbed gently with cotton afterward. But though I can't prove it, I still feel a little leery about this--I always feel like it just spreads the film of the melted chocolate around on all the molds. But Jan, if you're working with standard professional polycarbonate molds, either clear or white, they'll hold up just fine in the dishwasher.

[Wendy DeBord]

Ah, well I now see what I did wrong, thank-you for explaining. What I did wrong- my textured acetate sheets were contacting a cold surface. I was inverting as I placed them on a whole sheet of acetate. Next time I will cut it into squares and place on top where I can see if I've gotten good contact.

I can't even tell you the brand of chocolate I had, was lucky to even have some chocolate at this place-I've been working all week with NO semi sweet in the building with Mothers day fast approaching, (I'm ready to scream). It was milk chocolate -which I rarely use to hand dip. Centers were at room temp. round disks. I did have a huge bowl of chocolate tempered, it's temp and holding was fine.

Thanks for the advice, I now know what I did wrong.